CoPilots are underrated in flight sims?

[Pe11e 812]

I'm just thinking today, how it's possible that there is NO addon (FS2CREW I'm looking at you) in which you can act as a copilot? In FS2CREW you can enjoy flying as captain only afaik. This thought hit my mind when I was looking at FsPassengers rank system where first few are, of course, first officer ranks. How in the world, I, a future first officer in FsP, can sit in the left chair?    

Except that, being in the right chair and doing all that stuff related to procedures and fiddling with all that switches, for example, in 737 is pretty interesting, and then on approach you have an option to regain the control of the aircraft, and land it, like in the RW. 

 

I know that some planes have an option for shared cockpit, but afaik PMDG NGX doesn't have that option.

 

I can freely say this is a call to FS2CREW to consider developing an addon (for NGX especially) where you can sit in the right seat and freak out before every procedure. 

[Dave_YVR 994]

I'm waiting for the jumpseat addon version, so I can just do nothing but watch the flight progress.  

[Pe11e 812]

I'm waiting for the jumpseat addon version, so I can just do nothing but watch the flight progress.

 

Can't relate that sarcasm to my post, really.  :smile:

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

I'm waiting for the jumpseat addon version, so I can just do nothing but watch the flight progress.

 

That actually would be kinda cool. Like an observer mode. 

[Dave_YVR 994]

Can't relate that sarcasm to my post, really.  :smile:

 

 Haha.. Yeah yeah ok. I thought you were doing a sort of hit 2 nails with one stone post, jumping on the recently ridiculous media bandwagon about FO's and co-pilots actually being able to land aircraft as well as an actual idea that an addon like that be created. I'd consider it more of a PF and PNF sort of addon vs Captain and Co-Pilot.

[Patco Lch 1,469]

Off topic did you guys hear about the AA FO who had to fly solo because his Captain deceased during the flight? It was last night or yesterday. That right seater better know his stuff.

[Dave_YVR 994]

 That right seater better know his stuff.

 I don't think ANY FO's would be there if they didn't. It's more media ignorance.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

I know it's not what you're talking about, but i have to say that having flown several thousand hours in the right and left seat in shared cockpit on VATSIM in numerous aircraft (more types coming down the road), it's been an absolutely incredible experience!

 

MD-80

Dash 8 Q400 Professional

Aerosoft A320

[skelsey 765]

I'd say the reason this probably hasn't happened is because it's not really possible to do.

 

Ultimately, no matter how advanced the addon, it ain't psychic. You're still going to have to tell it where you're going, programme the MCDU, set the FCU in response to ATC instructions if you're online (I suppose it might be possible for an addon to read and process instructions from the inbuilt ATC but... urgh!) and step in if and when the computer gets it wrong or doesn't behave as expected. So the task sharing will never be quite right and you're always, really, going to be PF anyway.

 

As Dave says, the only way to do this with any realism is to fly shared cockpit/connected flight deck with a human. Having done a number of such flights, I can vouch for the fact that it is really quite something and, for those (i.e. the majority of us simmers) who have never flown a multi-crew aircraft, it's quite an eye opener to the level of teamwork and co-operation required to fly a modern airliner. However, as Dave will also tell you, it's the sort of thing that you need really to be in some form of organised group to do, partly for security considerations and partly because to do it effectively you need to be singing off the same hymn sheet as your colleague in the other seat and not all airline SOPs are created equal!

 

As has already been mentioned, don't forget that both pilots swap PM/PF roles from sector to sector: just because you're in the LHS doesn't mean that you can't be pilot monitoring, with your mate in the RHS "poling"!

 

Of course, if it's sitting in the RHS you want there's no reason why you can't fly most FS models quite adequately from that vantage point. However, I do know that FS2Crew etc is generally set up with the assumption you will be flying from the LHS, so it might be nice for that to be configurable (i.e. so you would still be in the PF role, but FS2Crew would be set so that it manipulated buttons & controls etc consistent with "it" being in the LHS and leaving the RHS controls alone for you to set).

 

Incidentally -- the old Level-D 767 FS2Crew had an option for an "FO takeoff" -- you still had to taxi out & line up and then keep it straight on the takeoff roll with the rudders though.

[Patco Lch 1,469]

 I don't think ANY FO's would be there if they didn't. It's more media ignorance.

Now, a day later I hear an FO passed out on a United flight. No joke. Guess the Captian better know his stuff too huh.

[dmncnpilot 39]

My first reaction to your post was to say that FOs are underrated in real life also. If I could count the time in which a person has walked up to me and asked; how long until the Captain lets me fly? Yada, yada, yada. Or when the captain messes up a landing and it's assumed that the FO did. It's just part of airline life. It's assumed that the captain has more experience than the FO, however that's not always the case. 

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I'm waiting for the jumpseat addon version, so I can just do nothing but watch the flight progress.

 

 

How about a 'sitting in coach' mode where you could wish you were really flying the airplane but can't. I couldn't think of a more realistic situation then this one. Just think, you could relive your real life experiences at home on your simulator.

 

Even better, get your wife/girlfriend to dress up like a stewardess and be mean to you, and invite your stinky annoying neighbour to come over and sit next to you for a few hours. Now this is as real as it gets, now we are on to something.

[dmncnpilot 39]

Passenger Simulator 2015

[Murmur 3,944]

I can think of the ultimate mode that FS2CREW could implement, the "I'm a Serious Flight Simmer" mode.

 

It starts with a window view over the wing, where you can just watch the engine and flaps and mentally re-enact all the actions the virtual pilots are doing, and then, after about an hour of virtual flight or so, a virtual flight assistant announces in a worried tone that both virtual pilots are incapacitated due to that bad virtual meal, and then your virtual avatar steps in and is allowed to enter the virtual cockpit, take command of the virtual aircraft, and save the day.

 

The mode concludes with your virtual avatar now hailed as a virtual hero while interviewed on the virtual CNN.

[Pe11e 812]

Aaaaand that's how this topic went downhill 

I thought this is a really serious topic to discuss about, but I was wrong.

 

 

I'd say the reason this probably hasn't happened is because it's not really possible to do.

Ultimately, no matter how advanced the addon, it ain't psychic. You're still going to have to tell it where you're going, programme the MCDU, set the FCU in response to ATC instructions if you're online (I suppose it might be possible for an addon to read and process instructions from the inbuilt ATC but... urgh!) and step in if and when the computer gets it wrong or doesn't behave as expected. So the task sharing will never be quite right and you're always, really, going to be PF anyway.

As Dave says, the only way to do this with any realism is to fly shared cockpit/connected flight deck with a human. Having done a number of such flights, I can vouch for the fact that it is really quite something and, for those (i.e. the majority of us simmers) who have never flown a multi-crew aircraft, it's quite an eye opener to the level of teamwork and co-operation required to fly a modern airliner. However, as Dave will also tell you, it's the sort of thing that you need really to be in some form of organised group to do, partly for security considerations and partly because to do it effectively you need to be singing off the same hymn sheet as your colleague in the other seat and not all airline SOPs are created equal!

As has already been mentioned, don't forget that both pilots swap PM/PF roles from sector to sector: just because you're in the LHS doesn't mean that you can't be pilot monitoring, with your mate in the RHS "poling"!

Of course, if it's sitting in the RHS you want there's no reason why you can't fly most FS models quite adequately from that vantage point. However, I do know that FS2Crew etc is generally set up with the assumption you will be flying from the LHS, so it might be nice for that to be configurable (i.e. so you would still be in the PF role, but FS2Crew would be set so that it manipulated buttons & controls etc consistent with "it" being in the LHS and leaving the RHS controls alone for you to set).

Incidentally -- the old Level-D 767 FS2Crew had an option for an "FO takeoff" -- you still had to taxi out & line up and then keep it straight on the takeoff roll with the rudders though.

 

 

Thanks for the only reply that is actually on topic, and it's quite good. That is possibly the reason, it requires much more programming for the Captain, and some things the addon can't know/predict. Who knows, maybe one day we'll see something similiar.