Driver170

LUA dynamic friction mod 737NGX

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With FSX people used this ground friction mod, including me with FSUIPC. Is this still needed with P3D?

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I have recently installed it and I love it.  It works wonders for the 777 

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Unfortunately that bug is still present in P3dv3 so yes i use it and its the bomb, not only do the PMDG suffer from GF IMHO all aircraft do in some way... and a dab of thrust with full fuel/pax/cargo and the big iron rolls nicely and turns much better in regards to taxing...

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Thought this was not needed with PMDG?

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I can find no appreciable difference between V2 and V3 without the mod.  It makes a noticeable difference on the 777 during taxi. No longer a need to boost the thrust leavers to keep it rolling.

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PMDG 777/NG for me is always a very light fuel load under 10% for the 777 around 20-25% for the NG

 

I need very little throttle to break away and taxi is just about idle in the 777 and around 23.5-24 mark for the NG. Not saying it's right or wrong might be a better topic in PMDG 777/NG forum and hear from some of the real life 777 pilots.

 

Just not convinced its the way to go. Like most things it might be down to personnel taste.

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With this LUA the 737-800 starts moving slowly with the throttles at idle.

( FSX 737-800 modified for Project Magenta and P3Dv3 )

 

I tried to find more about it on the IN but found only Pete's comment that indeed a 737-800 starts moving with the throttles at idle..

 

Anyone has more info on that ?

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I'm using the MOD but i deleted the ROLLING entry line at set friction

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I'm using the MOD but i deleted the ROLLING entry line at set friction

Can you tell me why you did that ?

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Just not convinced its the way to go. Like most things it might be down to personnel taste.

 

David, I think that really is the point.  None of us are truly qualified comment on what is accurate behavior or not unless you are type qualified.  The behavior with the mod 'seems' more accurate to me on larger aircraft types.  Like most here,  I have only been a pax on the 777 many times over and I have never heard the engine spooling on a straight taxi run,  I have however felt breaking quite often in order to slow the aircraft down.  From my frame of reference, this is what is represented using the mod.

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The problem with using the FSUIPC mod with the NGX is that PMDG have already adjusted engine thrust at low N1 so that taxiing thrust and breakaway thrust are representative. This compensates for the higher friction. If you apply friction is reduced so now the engine thrust is too high and the aircraft will roll with very little extra thrust. On system with the mod enabled, the fully loaded -700 won't move at idle but begins to move at 22% N1.

 

However it's still worth using the mod because the lateral tyre forces and contaminated runway effects are much improved. you can adjust the effects and choose which you want to use. So you could keep the rolling friction as it is and have the modified sliding and/or braking effects. Best of both worlds.

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Great.  I didn't realise that there were optional  parameters.

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David, I think that really is the point.  None of us are truly qualified comment on what is accurate behavior or not unless you are type qualified.  The behavior with the mod 'seems' more accurate to me on larger aircraft types.  Like most here,  I have only been a pax on the 777 many times over and I have never heard the engine spooling on a straight taxi run,  I have however felt breaking quite often in order to slow the aircraft down.  From my frame of reference, this is what is represented using the mod.

Since I've never been  on a 777 Erich I enjoyed your insight.

 

I don't have a reg version so I would get all or nothing. But don't have anything to lost to try it out, so I might as well try it.

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Trying to get this working on works PC in FSX

Its not working

 

DynamicFriction.lua    added to Modules folder

 

[Auto]
1=Lua DynamicFriction
 
added into config
 
Does it work when your not registered? 

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The problem with using the FSUIPC mod with the NGX is that PMDG have already adjusted engine thrust at low N1 so that taxiing thrust and breakaway thrust are representative. This compensates for the higher friction. If you apply friction is reduced so now the engine thrust is too high and the aircraft will roll with very little extra thrust. On system with the mod enabled, the fully loaded -700 won't move at idle but begins to move at 22% N1.

 

However it's still worth using the mod because the lateral tyre forces and contaminated runway effects are much improved. you can adjust the effects and choose which you want to use. So you could keep the rolling friction as it is and have the modified sliding and/or braking effects. Best of both worlds.

I doubt that PMDG has included friction in their aircraft.

The PMDG 737-800 NGX does not start rolling with throttles at idle and half load.

A real 737-800 NGX does...

 

Bob Scot ( cockpit specialist ) and Johan Dees ( FDE developer for Phoenix and PSS ) have studied the friction in Fs compared to reality and developed this LUA script.

I use it in my full size cockpit too.

Imho a must.

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The reason i delete set friction (WHEEL ROLLING) is personal preference because with this line you just need to give the NGX a bit of juice and takes off and keeps rolling. So DELETE WHEEL ROLLING and you'll see the difference

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Trying to get this working on works PC in FSX

Its not working

 

DynamicFriction.lua    added to Modules folder

 

[Auto]
1=Lua DynamicFriction
 
added into config
 
Does it work when your not registered? 

 

 

It does require a registered copy of FSUIPC to work.

 

There are two ways of altering the runway friction--one is with a FSUIPC.ini setting, but that changes the friction for all flight regimes.  The reason I wrote the DynamicFriction lua script is to change the "sticky ramp" friction behavior only at low (taxi) speeds, and then switch back to normal values above that so that takeoff, landing, and stopping distances are not altered appreciably from what the FDE designer intended. 

 

As to realism, I can tell you from experience that modern bigh-bypass turbofans produce a lot of thrust at idle, and low to no power breakaway and acceleration during taxi is a fact of life.  In the Gulfstream V we used the thrust reversers all the time during ground ops to keep taxi speeds under control because of the high idle thrust from the Rolls-BMW BR710 fans.  I've watched lightly loaded 777s (i.e. Air France on their Santiago Chile to Buenos Aires leg) initiate taxi with no discernable increase in power.

 

Regards

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I bought/registered a copy today because of the comments here. I have to say its now gone in my "must have" list, its really does make a huge difference. 

 

Great for taxiing and brake away "feels" so much more natural. 

 

Thank you Bob.

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 I have to say its now gone in my "must have" list, its really does make a huge difference. 

 

 

And from this day on you will discover a lot of features that you will wonder how you managed without FSuipc.

 

One a quiet weekend morning, grab a cup of coffee and read through the documentation, amazing stuff.

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It does require a registered copy of FSUIPC to work.

 

There are two ways of altering the runway friction--one is with a FSUIPC.ini setting, but that changes the friction for all flight regimes. The reason I wrote the DynamicFriction lua script is to change the "sticky ramp" friction behavior only at low (taxi) speeds, and then switch back to normal values above that so that takeoff, landing, and stopping distances are not altered appreciably from what the FDE designer intended.

 

As to realism, I can tell you from experience that modern bigh-bypass turbofans produce a lot of thrust at idle, and low to no power breakaway and acceleration during taxi is a fact of life. In the Gulfstream V we used the thrust reversers all the time during ground ops to keep taxi speeds under control because of the high idle thrust from the Rolls-BMW BR710 fans. I've watched lightly loaded 777s (i.e. Air France on their Santiago Chile to Buenos Aires leg) initiate taxi with no discernable increase in power.

 

Regards

Thanks for the script Bob ...

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It does require a registered copy of FSUIPC to work.

 

There are two ways of altering the runway friction--one is with a FSUIPC.ini setting, but that changes the friction for all flight regimes.  The reason I wrote the DynamicFriction lua script is to change the "sticky ramp" friction behavior only at low (taxi) speeds, and then switch back to normal values above that so that takeoff, landing, and stopping distances are not altered appreciably from what the FDE designer intended. 

 

As to realism, I can tell you from experience that modern bigh-bypass turbofans produce a lot of thrust at idle, and low to no power breakaway and acceleration during taxi is a fact of life.  In the Gulfstream V we used the thrust reversers all the time during ground ops to keep taxi speeds under control because of the high idle thrust from the Rolls-BMW BR710 fans.  I've watched lightly loaded 777s (i.e. Air France on their Santiago Chile to Buenos Aires leg) initiate taxi with no discernable increase in power.

 

Regards

 

I love it when small independent developers produce something so small that it almost goes unnoticed - yet actually having such huge impact on the overall experience, that it becomes a must have.

 

Thanks Bob.  Great mod.

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And from this day on you will discover a lot of features that you will wonder how you managed without FSuipc.

 

One a quiet weekend morning, grab a cup of coffee and read through the documentation, amazing stuff.

 

I'd be only half joking if I said that you can't really call yourself simmer if you aren't using a registered copy... :P

 

Pete Dowson has done more for this community down through the years with this seemingly infinitely adaptable tool than just about any other aftermarket developer. And it's continued development and adaptation to new uses means it's the `go-to` interactivity tool for all MS and ESP-based sims. And increasingly as a standalone tool in its own right. Never found a better calibration tool, and the LUA scripts are a must have for many of the complex sim products- although I must admit I thought the rolling friction in the sim had been addressed by L-M!

 

We really don't praise him often enough - especially with his knack of choosing vacation times when updates are coming out. You can set your watch by FSUIPC. You can probably set your watch WITH FSUIPC!  :hi:

  • Upvote 4

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Couldn't agree more Peter Dowson is really a huge contributor not only as developer but also in sharing the same passion of flight simulation.

SO thank you Peter

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I just discovered this LUA friction, I have some questions about appreciate if someone could help,

 

1. Does it work properly with P3D v3 + PMDG NGX and 777?

2. Does it affect braking actions based on runway surface conditions as well?

3. Where to find the file DynamicFriction.lua?

 

Thanks in advance.

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