That's the Airbus philosophy!RH

Great post Mike!

>Does a 747 pilot not use his>auotpilot for flights? Kinda doubt it no matter how bored he>gets. I guess the point I am making is that the more>sophisticated flight becomes, in order to simulate real world>procedures, there will be less and less "flying" and more and>more number punching. And who knows, maybe in time there will>be less of that too. >In all seriousness....Hand flying for hundreds or thousands of miles in a straight line, while constantly making small minute corrections as required, is NOT all that much fun. The A/P makes the trip more relaxing by providing more time to look at the scenery, notice restricted areas on the moving map GPS, double check charts, plan your descent, eat lunch, tune radios, review an approach plate if required, and watch for other traffic.It's not at all, like being some "nerd", and just pushing buttons. I don't fly real life commercial aircraft, but do appreciate two-axis auto-pilots tied to a GPS, for the long haul portion of a general aviation trip.L.Adamson P.S. --- fly over very rugged mountainous terrain, or with a friend, or spouse, and you won't be bored at all.

The latest developments involve early instructions going directly from the ATC computers to the airliner's FMC to avoid speed restrictions, heading changes, traffic avoidance, etc.The upside for MSFS and similar products is that FS 2004 will seem horribly complicated by tomorrow's standards. (So no doubt everyone will love it then!) Flying will then be synonymous with computers - that will not be too far off, given that airliners are already controlled for practical purposes by programmers rather than just pilots.Bit by bit, human hand-flying skills will be lost. At that stage, the conspiracy theorists of the age will be able to claim (again!) that Neil could not possibly have manually landed on the Moon because no one could fly as well as that!!Regards.Michael

That is a good thing for airlines and perhaps safety, but not for us who what to pretend to be airline pilots, people who actually, for the most part, fly the airplanes. RH

>Bit by bit, human hand-flying skills will be lost. At that>stage, the conspiracy theorists of the age will be able to>claim (again!) that Neil could not possibly have manually>landed on the Moon because no one could fly as well as that!!>>Regards.>>MichaelSo, Michael, when are you going to fit a full autopilot to and remove the pilot from a Pitts Special or an Extra 300? :-hah ;-)I'm sorry, but this version of the future where all aircraft are computer controlled is unlikely to happen. Yes, airline travel and military applications may go that way, but most GA flights are for pleasure, not just to get from A-B, so they won't go down the same route for a long time yet if ever. Like motorbikes and cars, people actually enjoy the skills and experiences of flying aircraft themselves.Ian P.

Maybe that explains why Airbus have caught up and overtaken Boeing in orders? ;-)Seriously, don't look at the "heavy" air transport business as being about aviation or flying, because it isn't. It's a business. It's about getting payloads from A to B and making money, nothing else. The major airlines don't exist because pilots enjoy flying the airliners, or because the passengers enjoy travelling on them.Possibly the most accurate thing I have ever seen written as a tagline was an airline pilot on a forum whose tag was "Pilots fly Boeings. Accountants fly Airbus." OK, so it isn't true any more as since the inception of the 777 series, Boeing has gone 100% fly by wire to keep airline accountants happy, but the gist of it is still true.You ask an accountant whether they would prefer a current A320 flown by a pilot, or a mythical A320 flown solely by a computer and the latter will win any time. No maximum hours limits, no salaries or overtime, no pension or private medical cover... No pilots unions! The computer will win every time. The only reason pilots are still in aircraft is because passengers prefer them being there to watch the autopilot. The statistics all shout that the majority of accidents are caused - directly or indirectly - by crew error but people still like to be flown by another person. Statistics and emotions don't always end with the same result, fortunately.Cheers,Ian P.

Good point Dom!RH

No offense intended to those who love the complex airliners, but I never got the point why it is so interesting to throw 90 virtual switches and program a FMC for 30 minutes and then watch a remote controlled flight video. After I had done this for 3 months or so a few years ago with DF's 737 I found it rather boring instead. Since then I have committed myself to GA in FS. In order to increase the realism in FS you do not necessarily increase the amount of switches and displays. There are many areas that fall short. Like weather, vertical air movement, the flight model, icing (visuals and aerodinamics), oxygen above 10.000 ft. etc.etc..Alex

Yeah Alex, there's no denying what you are saying is true. A Piper Cub is much truer to real flying than a 777 is. The computer does almost everything in a 777. A pilot does not even have to add back pressure if he chooses to use the yoke during a turn. I say choose, because he can just let the computer do that too. So, yes increasing the amount of switches and displays does not add to the realism in FS. However, like many others, it was through the heavies that I gained a love of aviation. As a result, heavies are what I want to fly the majority of time I am using FS2004. At this time, I choose to fly RFP 747-200 -- which has more gauges than any other add-on but still requires a lot of piloting skills, say, when compared to a 777. RH

Hello Ian,I tend to be pessimistic these days about the future of things that some people have the temerity to enjoy!!Regards,Michael

The title of the thread is entirely misleading. Just look at the millions of great freeware files avaialable. Take a gander at how much money you can spend on state of the art payware panels, scenery, utilities. The future of flightsimming looks as bright as it will ever be. Basically, flightsimulation is at a point where you can go from flying a rickety Piper Cub to flying a sophisticated glass cockpit jetliner in a New York Minute. Go from bumming around the rises and drops at Misty Fjord to practising approaches at London Heathrow in a thunder storm, with a fierce crosswind and almost no visibility. The future is bright. Where are my shades?ricardo

>Yeah Alex, there's no denying what you are saying is true. A>Piper Cub is much truer to real flying than a 777 is. The>computer does almost everything in a 777. A pilot does not>even have to add back pressure if he chooses to use the yoke>during a turn. I say choose, because he can just let the>computer do that too. I've been installing an auto-pilot system for a small two place airplane, that allows for pilot controlled steering by pushing a button on the stick. This momentarily disconnects the A/P and it will resume the new heading when you let go of the button If the second axis is being used for altitude control, the plane will loose about 50' in the turn, if you don't bank hard. Then the A/P will correct for it. So in a way, it's not that much different than the 777. My plan, is to let the A/P fly the whole distance for long cross-countries. It will follow a complete GPS flight plan, but I'll have to make altitude adjustments manually.It's not all that fun to hand fly for hundreds of miles anyway. I'd rather be pointing out scenery to someone, as well as watching for other planes, checking charts, rising mountains, etc.And BTW-- recently flew a newer experimental airplane, that requires a non-noticeable amount of backpressure in turns. I kept climbing in turns, thanks to the habit of adding backpressure.L.Adamson

"A Piper Cub is much truer to real flying than a 777 is. The computer does almost everything in a 777."I totally agree! Just look at the recent aviation news:CNN reports that Boeing and Airbus will not be including any Yokes, rudder pedals, throttles or seats in any new aircraft flight decks. The cockpit doors will be welded shut and pilots will be required to monitor the instruments from the 6 inch LCD screen in First Class. However, CNN reports that Boeing is requiring a four cocktail limit to any onduty crew members while Airbus, in typical French fashion, are offering as much wine as the pilots can drink. In a similar press release from Microsoft's Bill Gates: "...since their skilled MCSEs are all proficent in computers of all types, Microsoft is opening up a new division: Microsofviation. All current MCSEs will be required to be experts in Windows 2003 Server, SQL, Networking and 747 / 777 Flight Operations. Since current airline pilots don't know how to fly their airliners, and neither do we, Microsoft is strategically poised to enter the Aviation market since our MCSEs can program an FMC faster than anyone else. Besides in case of emergency we have our trusty 777 study guide to refer to".Today the "For Dummies" line of books now includes the new best seller: "Flying the 777 for Dummies" and will teach anyone who can drive a go-kart to fly heavy airliners in 21 days.Fox News reported that American, Continental and Delta reported today that they are replacing their 737NG, 757, 767 and 777 full motion simulators with Piper Cubs in hopes that their pilots get back to *real flying*. Other airlines, realizing that their aircraft do not offer any real flying, are replacing their simulators with large kites.Finally, in a stunning statement by the Director of the FAA, as of October 1st all type ratings in anything above a Cessna 172 will be revoked due to safety concerns. The Director says: "I have grave concerns that pilots of those diabolical compterized airliners don't actually know how to fly them. The FAA will no longer be offering type ratings for any airplane with a computer screen or autopilot unless it can proven one can fly a Piper Cub first..."As for me. Now realizing that I've never really enjoyed my PMDG 737NG, 747-400, LDS 767-300 or Wilco A320PIC, I've promply deleted them and will restrict my flying to the Wright Flyer.Low and slow is the way to go! StIcK aNd RudDeR RuLe!!!! :-badteethMike T.

oh MAN THAT IS THE FUNNIEST THING IVE READ IN A LOOONG TIMEoh man, LOLyou are the spoof master!ciao!Brian S