Fifty-One Dollars!

[G7USL 117]

In the argument of whether $50 is enough or too much, look around at the magnificent freeware available too.To name but a few................................................The best ever is the TU-154 released by 'Project Tupolev' http://www.protu-154.com/files_e.htmlThis aircraft although in Russian is every bit as good as the PMDG 744 and streets ahead of Captain Sims 'Herk'.The 'Samdim' TU-114 is another masterpiece http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=53845It won a silver award here at Avsim, it was so good.The Project Fokker 100/70 http://fokker.avsim.net/downloads.htm that our own FREEWARE supremo Rob Barendregt helped to sort out, is another gem.All these for nothing!My point is, if designers can spend so many and umpteen hours doing these, and others, golden packages? $50+ for payware days are certainly numbered.Long live the REAL heroes of our hobby for all our sakes.Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[ErnieAlston 33]

>In the argument of whether $50 is enough or too much, look>around at the magnificent freeware available too.>...>...>>My point is, if designers can spend so many and umpteen hours>doing these, and others, golden packages? $50+ for payware>days are certainly numbered.>>Long live the REAL heroes of our hobby for all our sakes.In think you are in denial.So many people clammered to get their hands on the PMDG $50 package they brought down the servers doing it.Sorry but PMDG merely opened the door, others will surely follow (and already have really).We may not like it, but the market is what the market is.RegardsErnie.

[G7USL 117]

Ernie,Your not quite right actually.What brought down the Avsim forum was all the complaints of the software being unuseable by people with border line systems. To be expected really. No-one had tried it with the minimum system so, how would they have known?The other reason was due to the excessive demand caused by the euphoria that PMDG had previously generated.Further, I am not in denial at all, I got it on the third day of it's availability.I also have the Level-D 767. Now that IS value for money and to top it all, it is as smooth as silk, straight out of the 'box'.Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[ErnieAlston 33]

>Ernie,>>Your not quite right actually.>>What brought down the Avsim forum was all the complaints of>the software being unuseable by people with border line>systems. To be expected really. No-one had tried it with the>minimum system so, how would they have known?Who said anything about the Avsim forums ??I was referring to the PMDG transaction servers which did indeed get overwhelmed from the unexpected high demand for the 747 product They became unable to process orders for a while because the demand was so unexpectedly high.>The other reason was due to the excessive demand caused by the>euphoria that PMDG had previously generated. Doesn't matter who generated it, the demand was there nonetheless.Call it good marketing that's all.>Further, I am not in denial at all, I got it on the third day>of it's availability.Its obvious from PMDG's success, that a similar quality product (or even a bit less quality product) will be able to use similar price points and be successfull. If you refuse to see or recognize this then you are in denial.The Market is what the Market is.Regards.Ernie.

[G7USL 117]

If you refuse to>see or recognize this then you are in denial.>>The Market is what the Market is.>>Regards.>Ernie.>No, I'm not in denial, I, like many others just won't play their game. They will protest with their feet. If Captain Sim have underestimated this then, they are only kidding themselves.As someone has already said in this thread, much better to concentrate on a high turnover with an affordable price than to risk falling deeper into the brown stuff.'LDS' have earned much more popularity with 'one' aircraft than CS or PMDG would ever understand and all because they are NOT ripping people off.I for one will buy all their future products because I know good value and they respect their customers.Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[Guest]

>>'LDS' have earned much more popularity with 'one' aircraft>than CS or PMDG would ever understand and all because they are>NOT ripping people off.>I for one will buy all their future products because I know>good value and they respect their customers.>LDS also has more history with their original 767 simulationYou are honestly going to put CS and PMDG in the same league and say they both are ripping people off? Sorry you have no idea how much it costs to develop the Queen, it is a much more complicated aircraft than the LDS could ever be.You post links to freeware, the Tupolev is nice, but I dislike the idea about having to customize the controls in a separate program.Second, that Dreamwings does NOT have a VC, nowhere near the quality of PMDGs NG and Queen add-ons.So go back to your high horse and continue to enjoy simplistic add-ons and complain that you have to actually spend money for someone to create a complicated realistic simulation

[Guest aarskringspier]

>Ernie,>>Your not quite right actually.>>What brought down the Avsim forum was all the complaints of>the software being unuseable by people with border line>systems. To be expected really. No-one had tried it with the>minimum system so, how would they have known?>>The other reason was due to the excessive demand caused by the>euphoria that PMDG had previously generated.>>Further, I am not in denial at all, I got it on the third day>of it's availability.>>I also have the Level-D 767. Now that IS value for money and>to top it all, it is as smooth as silk, straight out of the>'box'.>>Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active>'FlightSim User's Group' member at>http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/I dont know who you think youre kidding but the LDS was far from silky smooth right out of the box. They had numerous things to fix with SP1 which they did beautifully. PMDG will do the same. The AVSIM forums werent brought down by unhappy customers so please stop with the diatribe against PMDG you dont like em fine but fact is 50 dollar and up add ons are here to stay. We keep demanding more, more, more out of these designers but somehow expect it for nothing? get real, the more "real" this gets the more expensive its going to get and rightfully so.

[ErnieAlston 33]

>No, I'm not in denial, I, like many others just won't play their >game. They will protest with their feet. If Captain Sim have >underestimated this then, they are only kidding themselves.That's possible.That's what developers have to do, guess the market. Sometimes the underestimate sometimes the overestimate. What do you think they have a magic wand that tells them how many units they are going to sell beforehand ???The price your competitor charges has bearing on the price you finally decide on.And now that PMDG has opened the door, other developers will naturally start considering pricing in this range.>As someone has already said in this thread, much better to >concentrate on a high turnover with an affordable >price than to risk falling deeper into the brown stuff.Unfortunately that method isn't always the best way.More unit sales at a lower price does not necessarily translate into higher earnings. Lets say PMDG sells 10,000 units at $50. That's $500,000 gross.If we agree the average going rate for add-ons is still in the approximate $35 range.To gross the same 500K at $35 a unit, they would have to sell an extra 4200 units (or 42% more) just to bring in the 'same' revenue. Your certainly not going to charge a lower price to bring in the same revenue. So that means they'd have to sell close to twice as many units as they are selling now just to make it worth charging a lower price.That's the judgement the developer has to make when they decide to go for a lower or higher price. Based on your previous product's sales you have some idea of your customer base and what percentage of your customers may be willing to pay the higher price and how many additional customers you might gain by charging a lower price.How many more units will you sell at the lower price ?? If it ends up being only 25% more units sold, your income is less than it would have been at the higher price. Lower units sold for the same income has another benefit , support, less customers means less customers to support.Regards.Ernie.

[aerdt 0]

Well, this thread is interesting. Since CaptSim seems to be a Russian company, I looked up the per capita income for Russia, which is around $10,000/month. So, the approximate price for this addon for Russians would be $200. Not bad, huh? Even, if they'd sell it for $30, they'd still make good money IMHO.I don't have anything against supply/demand, but $50 would be pushing it for me for an aircraft add-on (actually ANY add-on) as well. Additionally, those vintage models don't have a FMC (yes, i know, because they are vintage) and are 'fairly' simple, but visually attractive, but on the other hand require a lot less effort to "program" and develop. I'd maybe pay $15-$20 for it.In general, the average prize for add-ons seem to be around $20-30, which I find just about right.Pat

[btacon 1,808]

Hey Dave...in my opinion too, you are in denial.The market will self-correct. PMDG did not have system failures because of problems, they had system failures because of sucess. That simple.bt

[n4gix 4,947]

>Lets say PMDG sells 10,000 units at $50. That's $500,000>gross.Ten thousand? :) While no dev will publish sales figures for quite obvious reasons, I'm quite certain that no single release has ever achieved such a spectacular number of sales.Ernie, I'm sure you're aware of just how tiny a niche market this is... :)It doesn't help that the marketplace is so fragmented either. Funnily enough, there are folks who've been simming for years who've never heard of avsim.com, or any of the other "major" fs websites... :-eek

[ChuckB 0]

Let them release it for that much. Then just sit back and listen to the complaints, pure and simple. Granted, the complaints will have to be in a forum such as this one, since CS has deemed it unnecessary to have one. Of course, we all know the truth as to why they shut down their forum. :-rollSupply and demand sums this up nicely. Maybe CS also realizes that the market for this aircraft will be most likely a small one to begin with. They're just trying to get the most money they can from it all.ChuckC-130H Flight EngineerDyess AFB, TXAMD 64 3700+ | ASUS A8V Deluxe | Antec TruePower 480 PS | 1.0 gig DDR400 Corsair TwinX 3200XLC2Pro | WD 120 gig HDD | WD 80 gig HDD | Twin WD 160 gig SATA HDDs | SB Audigy 2 | ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128 | CH Products USB Yoke | CH Products USB Pedals | Nostromo n52 | Windows XP Pro SP2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[Dillon 2,197]

I guess I'm on the opposite end of most of the views posted here. I feel developers should be well paid and asking $54 for an add-on like PMDG's 744 is perfectly justified. There are many things to consider with the development of complex add-ons.1. Everyone on the team has to get paid. The coordination takes time because everyone has their own schedule. I actually think it

[Guest pugsley]

Bring on the violins.Should we make our purchase decisions out of sympathy for the developer or according to expected product performance?

[speckfire 2]

Nope..naga nagannahappen. Not paying $50 for CS .. PMDG? yes with pleasure I paid $50 for the 747. I've been buying stuff from PMDG since FlyI and thier support is wonderful. They listen to thier customers. CS has doomed itself after the failed 707. Sorry I got burned by CS with the 707. Till that's not fixed, I'm not buying a single product from them.