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Multiple monitors camera window calculations help

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  I need some camera.cfg (or whichever file) window calculations help for a friend with three HDTV (1920x1080)monitors  - separate non-virtual cockpit views(not Surround), on three monitors - but with the center one rotated 90 degrees. It will be used with mostly helicopter simulations so he wants more vertical FOV for the center view.

   We aren't sure whether to rotate the center view using the Nvidia control panel or just have a 90 degree rotation in the cameras.cfg file. I expect he wants about +-22.5 (45 total) horizontal degrees for the center view horizontal and maybe +-30 (60 total) horizontal degrees for each side view with a few degrees for the bezels.

   At one time, there was a spreadsheet that a user had provided for these calculations - is there anything like that these days for P3D?

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@flyingsub1959

   Thanks for the suggestion but it appears that they assume a fixed zoom=0.7 which wouldn't work for this application. I need to probably adjust the zoom.

 

Dave

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@FlightSimDimm

       That looks like the proper tool for sure - but I couldn't see how to purchase it on their website - any ideas? Also, the one issue as I mentioned is that even though the three monitors (large 60 inch HDTVs) are on one Matrix splitter, the center one is rotated 90 for better vertical FOV. I will try to communicate with the Immersive folks. 

 

Thanks again

 

Dave

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@FlightSimDimm,

     OK. I downloaded that tool and found that I need Immersive Display Pro with is about $200 or so to actually get the warping. I emailed the dev and he says they don't yet support the rotated display - but are looking at it. Great support from them - very responsive.

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@FlightSimDimm,

     OK. I downloaded that tool and found that I need Immersive Display Pro with is about $200 or so to actually get the warping. I emailed the dev and he says they don't yet support the rotated display - but are looking at it. Great support from them - very responsive.

Great support has been my experience as well. I have been using it with a 3 projector system for the last 2 years and just hooked up 3 LCDs and get the additional benefit of image correction why flying at my desktop.

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@FlightSimDimm,

    How can you control the overall horizontal field of view? I seem to get a reasonable result for a low zoom (maybe +-50 degree) fov on three screens but I would like to set it so I almost see +-85 degrees. Do I just move the eyepoint or what? Also, I still notice objects (like other aircraft or the control tower) on the ground that as I yaw around in SLEW mode are still quite a bit larger near the left and right edges - is that your experience?

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  1. Have your middle monitor set to porttrait mode in NV Control Panel and both others at landscape mode.
  2. Make a backup copy of your camera.cfg file
  3. Delete your 2D cockpit part ( it si the first at the top and it is called Cockpit )

Replace it by :

 

[CameraDefinition.001]

Title = Cockpit

Guid = {B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

Description = This is the description of the cockpit view

Origin = Cockpit

ShowPanel = Yes

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = True

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

Track = None

ShowAxis = FrontOnly

AllowZoom = TRUE

InitialZoom = 1.0

SmoothZoomTime = 2.0

ShowWeather = Yes

XyzAdjust = TRUE

ShowLensFlare=FALSE

Category = Cockpit

PitchPanRate=30

HeadingPanRate=75

PanAcceleratorTime=0

HotKeySelect=2

 

Now you can move the 2D cockpit view with Spacebar + Right Mouse button , just like the VC

 

4. Make a new Cockpit view, undock it and drag it to the left monitor. Using the Spacebar + Right mouse button you can allign the view with your main view. Also with + and - you can zoom in or out. 

 

5. Do the same for a right monitor.

 

6. Save tghe flight and the views will be saved too.

 

7. For finetuning , which mostly is adjusting the zoom , go into your Prepar3D v3 Files cfolder and open fxml file form your Saved flight.

 

8. Open it with Notepad and look for Camera 1.1 , 2.1 and 3.1. You will find the zoom vales listed.You can adjust them with 0.05 to fine tune, as with + or - it goes up /down by 0.10  degrees.

 

 

It is straight forward.

 

Good luck !

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@FlightSimDimm,

    How can you control the overall horizontal field of view? I seem to get a reasonable result for a low zoom (maybe +-50 degree) fov on three screens but I would like to set it so I almost see +-85 degrees. Do I just move the eyepoint or what? Also, I still notice objects (like other aircraft or the control tower) on the ground that as I yaw around in SLEW mode are still quite a bit larger near the left and right edges - is that your experience?

 

Since I only use the virtual cockpit, I don't notice any side objects larger. I don't have as large a FOV as my projectors with the LCD montiors. I would guess that it has something to do with the LCD monitor angle more so that the eyepoint.  Send Nikola an email - he should be able to point you in the right direction for your setup.

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@GSalden,

    Thanks for your ideas on the proper approach. Unfortunately, currently we are using a Matrox TripleHead2Go to drive the three monitors so the center unit is part of a superwide single screen. Perhaps we could try separating them into the two side windows and the center being a single NV controllable monitor. We may really need the Immersive warped approach to get as good a proper horizon as possible with as little side windows stretching distortion as possible. Is that issue very important to you?

 

Thanks for your time and thinking on this issue!!

 

Dave

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Hi All, 

 

When using LCD Designer PRO and Immersive Display PRO it is perfectly possible to use the exported files in a grouped displays setup (like Matrox Tripple Head to Go, NV 2D Surround, ATI Eyfinity group, ..) , but also in  un-grouped displays.

The LCD panels do not have to be the same resolution. Even rotated panels are perfectly supported.

 

When we released the initial version we only created a step by step guide for the most common setups: grouped displays with LCDs with same resolution. 

In the next version we are going to extend the step by step manual with information for the more complex (un-grouped, rotated and unrelated displays).

 

Until then, these are the steps needed to use the exported results in un-grouped displays.:

 

1. After modifying the .fxml file and copying the content of the p3d_group_xxx.fxml file into your flight file, open P3D (do not start Immersive display PRO yet), load your modified fxml flight , switch to windowed mode and undock the views.  Move them to the corresponding LCD, maximize them and go to full screen mode.
 
2. Now from P3D save the flight again (preferably to another name).
 
3. Start Immersive Display PRO and in each of the displays presented in Immersive Display PRO load the corresponding .lcdcalib from the LCD Panel exported folder.  Note: do not load the idp_group.lcdcalib file but the other .lcdcalib files (one per display). Make sure that you load the matched  file (as it was designed in LCD Designer PRO).
 
4. Start P3D, and load your saved file. 
 
If you can not see the menu, toggle the warping with F4 , use the menu to load the flight and after loaded toggle the warping again for perfect geometrical corrected visuals.
 

Check the photos of one of the quick test setups:

 

http://imgur.com/a/JyLuC

 

Regards,

Nikola

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Does this correct the stretching that you find at the edge of a wide display?  Specifically, does an object in the center of a display maintain the same pixels, same dimensions in pixel height and width, as the view is panned and the object moves to the edge of the display?

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Does this correct the stretching that you find at the edge of a wide display?  Specifically, does an object in the center of a display maintain the same pixels, same dimensions in pixel height and width, as the view is panned and the object moves to the edge of the display?

Hi,

 

No stretching at all. Perfect geometry, just like you look through the "window" (your LCDs) in the outside world.

 

Regards,

N.

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No stretching at all. Perfect geometry,

But you are saying this is not possible mathematically through more than one display?  That is exactly what my algorithm in the other thread does.  It is limited by Prepar3d's FOV limit, but if you use multiple monitors spanning up to about 155 degrees you can achieve it in one graphical view spanning 3 displays.  There is no bezel adjustment at this moment, no precise accounting for the angle of the monitors relative to each other, but that can factored into the algorithm.  If you wish to go further than the limit of 179 degree limit imposed by Prepar3d you will need another graphical view.   But that is easily accomplished by opening another view in Prepar3d.  

 

I cannot see how you could accomplish perfect geometry unless you used the algorithm I wrote,  or rather the math I used, and published in this and Prepar3d's forum about 2 years ago.  Can you please explain how your method is different, how specifically you achieved perfect geometry, regardless of whether it is over one display or multiple displays?

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But you are saying this is not possible mathematically through more than one display?  That is exactly what my algorithm in the other thread does.  It is limited by Prepar3d's FOV limit, but if you use multiple monitors spanning up to about 155 degrees you can achieve it in one graphical view spanning 3 displays.  There is no bezel adjustment at this moment, no precise accounting for the angle of the monitors relative to each other, but that can factored into the algorithm.  If you wish to go further than the limit of 179 degree limit imposed by Prepar3d you will need another graphical view.   But that is easily accomplished by opening another view in Prepar3d.  

 

I cannot see how you could accomplish perfect geometry unless you did not use the algorithm I wrote, the math I used, and published in this and Prepar3d's forum about 2 years ago.  Can you please explain how your method is different, how specifically you achieved perfect geometry, regardless of whether it is over one display or multiple displays?

 

denali: The details of our algorithm will not be discussed... It is a commercial tool after all.

It is a solution for achieving any FOV (even 360 deg) is perfectly possible.  It you find it useful, please feel free to use it.

 

By this I'm closing this "how you did it" discussion with you. Please accept this!!!

 

Regards,

N

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In one place you say it isn't possible.  In another you say it is, but it's a secret.  You have me so confused!  But the math is brutally honest.


 

 


By this I'm closing this "how you did it" discussion with you. Please accept this!!!

I like Milkshakes too.  I know where to get them far cheaper.

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@denali,

      I'm not really sure at all, but I think Nikola is talking about using multiple separate views (which definitely slows down the FPS performance) - each of which is maybe 60- 70 degrees horizontal field of view. Even with that approach there is need for bezel alignment and some distortion correction so that the horizon behaves well for a certain eyepoint. Their realtime distortion correction was originally designed for multiple projectors that need distortion correction and edge blending. They are now taking their knowledge into the use of large HDTVs and LCDs.

 

      I know you were working on the use of just one very wide view.

 

Dave

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If N is claiming that there is "no distortion" or "100% geometrically correct", then there is only one way to achieve that.  That way is using the same math I used in my algorithm.  The disturbing part to me is that I am aware of discussions between N and one of my alpha testers 9 months or so before N, after his wide search for a solution, shows up here and says he solved the problem first.  The alpha tester showed me N's original products and we tinkered with it for due diligence, asking "did they solve the problem" (which I had solved 2 years prior and published).  The alpha tester actively communicated with N for that purpose, because of the alpha's passion and interest in the problem is like mine.  Then magically N has a "never before done" solution, where he would have to use the math, and argues with me *in my own product thread* that he didn't use the same math, that it is mathematically impossible.  

 

Now I'm not planning on having Senatorial hearings nor having my former partner testifying as he did before the Nuclear Regulatory Committee about safety and security in nuclear power plant software.  And Synchronicity is just as common as De Ja Vu in this industry.   But it would just be nice for N to acknowledge even that his is not the very first software to use programmatic lensing for this display problem.  Or admit that his is the solution that is "not geometrically correct" if it does not use the same math.


I bring up my partner because after not having talked to him in many years, while were both trying to get out of a creatively stifling and financially limiting field, we both have had the same experiences and concerns practicing "in the wild" where your security clearance no longer protects your work.  He joked there should be a hearing on this.  (I am nowhere near as qualified as he is, I did not graduate near the top of my class at MIT.  I stayed a few nights in Boston at a Sheraton once though.)

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NOT "100% Geometrically Correct".  Stretching is still visible in the peripheries of each view.  You are only minimizing it's presence with individual views.

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NOT "100% Geometrically Correct".  Stretching is still visible in the peripheries of each view.  You are only minimizing it's presence with individual views.

 

Thank you for trying.

When you put yourself at the eye-point no more stretching.

Go to Eye-point and turn your head and you will see no stretching. The geometry is 100% from the eye-point. That;s how it works.

 

N.

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The geometry is 100% from the eye-point.

Nikola,  You have a great product.  I even recommended it to someone just last night that asked me if my thing would help them with a projected image on a dome issue.  I do believe your software is exactly what people need in that situation.

 

And I will not argue with you that much that you have a solution often taken by programs like assetto corsa for flat LC Displays and it is effective.  You have worked hard in your software to present a solution.  A very pricey one, but also a functional one.   Where for projected displays your product is very worthy, but as for an LCD solution I do not think it is fair for you to charge it as a bundled price, as you do, e.i. you must purchase your flagship product at it's premium price.  However, that is not up to me, but the markets.  

 

And again, if you did not use the math that I have published, you are not getting a 100% geometrically correct solution.  Not even "when you put yourself at the designed eyepoint".    Your claim is false.

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