Flyinside + VR + P3D v3.3 experiences and questions and cfg tweaks

[theskyisthelimit 48]

I had similar CPU temps on my i2600k. I think you will get stuttering from that as well.

 

What makes it worse is that the GPU is hot and pumping heat into the same area that the hot CPU is sitting.

 

The hot CPU could be because the thermal paste has dried up. You could replace the paste or get a better cooler for the CPU.

 

In my humble opinion, one of either the CPU or GPU needs to be water cooled. If both are on air, there is too much heat in the case.

 

I once had a CPU on air running at 85C and a GPU on air running at 80C and there was stuttering.

Then I went to a i6700k CPU on water at 60C with the same air cooled 80C GPU and no stuttering.

Then I went to a water cooled i6700k on 60C with a water cooled GPU on 60C and there are no issues with stuttering.

I brainstormed today on the debate up upgrading the cpu..

 

Needless to say the i7-6700k and NH-14D cooler and 3200mhz trident Z will arrive weds

 

Im very curious at your water cooling though.. on the cpu side i saw someone hit 4.6-4.7ghz on the NH-14D at 60C load (i'll be happy as long as its 1.35v and 75C or less if i overclock).  We'll see if i hit the luck of the draw or not.   Hopefully no delidding will be needed and the thermal paste that comes with the NH-14D is sufficient.

 

I decided to move away from the single radiator/fan noctua ( NH-U14S ) i already have in favor of that one, instead of water cooling.. i had a self containing water cooler a few years back, forget the model.. corsair, but it wasnt as good as the noctua..

 

On the GPU side.. what sort of water cooler did you go with, is it expensive and is it self contained so that no added water is needed, just plug and chug..? I always strayed away because of the maintenance factor, except the corsair.

 

Ill first try the new cpu/cooler combo and see how the gpu temps turn out.  It probably is that bad combo..

 

Anyways.. p3d makes for fun building times.. appreciate all the input.  Ill certainly have interesting benchmark comparibles for hex vs quad in a few days (ill set the ghz the same in both cases and compare).

 

Oh you probably said before and i forgot, but if you are on the 6700.. what is your current clock speed/mobo/ram combination you have working?  (per that other link, i'm going with the asus z170-A + trident 3200, not sure if ill hit 3200 though + the 6700)

[Lenny777 299]

Well i have some results of the comparison from 980ti SC+ to 1080 FTW, frankly, i'm at a loss here.

Short story.. saw VERY Marginal difference in the VR tests, maybe slightly smoother panning, but overall, im actually seeing near identical if not 1-2 fps WORSE performance with the 1080..

 

I thought at first it must be a driver issue.. so i ran the installer doing the "clean" install option/rebooted etc..

No change..

 

Really puzzled here.. anyone else made the swap and ran into this?

 

IE: my fraps 120sec test for fsmark07 in ksea area was about 24.8 fps prior to the swap (with shadows and loads of things enabled), after, it became 23.80 or so.. same thing in vr, sitting on runway kors in bonanza was around 39 fps in the goggles.. now its the SAME.... same drop over the water to 28 (maybe up from 24 there).. still nowhere as smooth as aerofly fs2 with everything i have enabled too.. and affinity mask of 1365.

 

I also took off from kors in the realair lancair.. flew straight ahead for maybe 8 mins.. then ran out of memory.. lod was 5.5 during that test..

Frustrations here.

 

edit: my 3dmark firestrike ultra score is 5511, whereas the 980ti was 4169, i'd say this seems about right here at least.

 

I also recreated the prepar3d.cfg with no change

I moved from the 970 to the ZOTAC 1080 8gb and I am very disappointed. Marginal difference. This 32 bit platform is way overdue for an overhaul and this is painfully obvious in VR. Opposite to that is the big performance increase (sans VR of course) on the 64 bit X-Plane. GPU makes a huge difference there. I have a complete moratorium on any further purchases for the 32 bit platform. I'm tired of the memory issues and the never ending tinkering between graphics, planes, scenery, VAS etc.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

I moved from the 970 to the ZOTAC 1080 8gb and I am very disappointed. Marginal difference. This 32 bit platform is way overdue for an overhaul and this is painfully obvious in VR. Opposite to that is the big performance increase (sans VR of course) on the 64 bit X-Plane. GPU makes a huge difference there. I have a complete moratorium on any further purchases for the 32 bit platform. I'm tired of the memory issues and the never ending tinkering between graphics, planes, scenery, VAS etc.

 

I agree.. its frustrating to have to spend hours tweaking, eventually it should just be plug and chug and no fooling around.  From what i can see so far Aerofly FS2 is a close start (i've been playing with it frequently).  I was going to jump on a $40ish sale for Xplane to do some testing there too, just for comparison's sake.  I cant recall, but is VR working in X-plane.. it was my understanding it wasnt just yet, or maybe with vorpx it is.  I think the folks at flyinsidefsx were considering an x-plane mod soon though.

 

Did you definitely find an increase in x-plane with the upgrade?  I figured as long as i see in upgrade with other games/sims, ill keep it.  I assume maybe 20-30% over the 980ti if the stats out there are accurate.  

[glider1 90]

Im very curious at your water cooling though.. on the cpu side i saw someone hit 4.6-4.7ghz on the NH-14D at 60C load

 

Here I my specs. It runs VR flyinside really well definitely good for ORBX but you have to know what you are doing when adjusting the settings for VR, there is a lot of tweaking and it has taken my two weeks to get the VR build right. The biggest trick is managing the load on the CPU in VR. EDIT: For ORBX you have to happy with no more than 30fps.

 

I sped up the timing on the memory one notch faster than the built in overclock profile to 15-17-17-35. The CPU over clocks to 4.7GHZ but I needed a 1.40 Vcore running at around 65C on P3D loads. The Gigabyte motherboard could do with a better voltage calibration setup but it is working ok. The GPU is stock overclocked at 2.067GHz and runs at less than 60c full load. It could be pushed higher but there is no need.

 

Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX 240mm Liquid CPU Cooler

Microsoft Windows 10 Home 32bit/64bit USB Flash Drive

Thermaltake Core V31 Window Mid Tower Chassis

Corsair HX1000i 80 Plus Platinum 1000W Power Supply

Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 5 Motherboard

Intel Core i7 6700K

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming Water Cooling 8GB

Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 Black

Samsung 850 EVO Series M.2 250GB SSD

Rift CV1

[theskyisthelimit 48]

Here I my specs. It runs VR flyinside really well definitely good for ORBX but you have to know what you are doing when adjusting the settings for VR, there is a lot of tweaking and it has taken my two weeks to get the VR build right. The biggest trick is managing the load on the CPU in VR. EDIT: For ORBX you have to happy with no more than 30fps.

 

I sped up the timing on the memory one notch faster than the built in overclock profile to 15-17-17-35. The CPU over clocks to 4.7GHZ but I needed a 1.40 Vcore running at around 65C on P3D loads. The Gigabyte motherboard could do with a better voltage calibration setup but it is working ok. The GPU is stock overclocked at 2.067GHz and runs at less than 60c full load. It could be pushed higher but there is no need.

 

Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX 240mm Liquid CPU Cooler

Microsoft Windows 10 Home 32bit/64bit USB Flash Drive

Thermaltake Core V31 Window Mid Tower Chassis

Corsair HX1000i 80 Plus Platinum 1000W Power Supply

Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 5 Motherboard

Intel Core i7 6700K

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming Water Cooling 8GB

Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 Black

Samsung 850 EVO Series M.2 250GB SSD

Rift CV1

Very nice.. so you are running your ram successfully at full overclock speed of 3200mhz?

 

I assume this is your water cooler for the cpu, or maybe v2?  I pulled the trigger and will give this water cooler a try.  Again in the past i didnt have much luck compared to air, but i agree, i think i need to get one heat source super cooled with water while the other one remains on air.. seeing as i dont know if its easy to water cool a not already water cooled video card (yours came that way it seems).. the cpu seems the best shot here.  Is your radiator on the inside of the case.. i'm wondering if i can get it on the outside somehow... i dont know that my case will work the best with that cooler.. there is no real way to mount inside and on the top (which maybe is where it should be on my Thermaltake Armor Series VA8000BWS?  Or perhaps i just give the case you have a shot and abandon this older one.. go from full size tower to mid tower though, i guess still plenty of space for what i need.. i also saw a v51, with more fans, though not sure they are needed).  edit: i think with the v31 case depending on which size ram is installed, the radiator 240mm may not fit at the top of the case, so with my trident memory, unsure until its too late if it will fit i guess, may opt for a v51.

 

I hope to at least hit 4.6 with 1.35 or less and 75C with prime95 blend.. when you say under load, do you mean a prime test or just something like p3d, curious?

 

That said.. i just now spotted leaked info showing the 7700k may be 4.2 base 4.5 turbo.. which often means a 5-5.2 overclock is theoretically possible.. which would give it about 500mhz more than the 6700k.. in the past that translated for me, into about 4 fps give or take.. sigh, still going to go with the 6700k (although the asus board i have coming and other z170 boards might work with the new chip).

[theskyisthelimit 48]

Just an update to all this and to summarize where things stand.. 

 

I made the final choices on my decision.. so its

 

CPU:   i7-6700k

Board: asus 170-a

Cooler: h100i v2 240mm water 

Case:  v51 thermaltake  (i felt more comfortable with the slightly larger case than the v31 for fitting the radiator ontop)

ram: CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 Vengeance LPX 16GB 1.35v 16cas

 

Parts arriving thursday 

 

Ill be doing the baseline comparisons between i7-4930k at 4.2ghz and this arrangement at 4.2ghz (and beyond once i overclock it).. I may even try the older DDR3 ram instead of DDR4 to keep the playing field even to see how it stacks up.

[glider1 90]

I hope to at least hit 4.6 with 1.35 or less and 75C with prime95 blend.. when you say under load, do you mean a prime test or just something like p3d, curious?

 

Hi theSky, under full CPU load in bench tests I hit 75C. Yeah it always possible that a 7700k might have a higher overclock but it is the same old story, as soon as you buy your hardware there is something else better just coming out. The way it is now, getting an overclock from 4.7 to 5.2 whatever means possibly being able to stay on 30fps even in heavy scenery, but we are not needing to lock to vsync in VR so it doesn't matter too much whether the sim is down at 25 or making it to 30. So long as there are negligible stutters, the lower fps is fine since 1/25 is still a fast enough time slice not to induce too much lag for general and commercial aviation. I even did aerobatics in VR on 25fps and was happy since in the past it was more the stuttering that drove me mad, not the low fps.

 

EDIT: for me on a 1080 watercooled, ATW still works down to 25fps without juddering. That might not be the case for people with lesser GPUs I'm not sure.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

Just a mini update here.

I did testing on my old hardware, the 4930k, again with the 980ti to compare with the 1080.. still got weird results..

For instance.. the fsmark07 paused initial screen dropped to 24 fps (which you would say is good.. but.. wait....).. this down from say 32 fps with the 1080 card.. it was a week ago this card was showing 33 fps.. so this was odd.. then i ran the full 120 sec test.. fps it was something like 25.50, despite the initial fps reading.. this still managed to come in higher than the 1080.

However.. the most important thing here.. testing in VR with flyinside.. at the 2368 resolution i was getting stutters with the 980ti, all things held equal.. whereas the 1080 i was not (and i had shadows on).

With the 1080 though, yes it ran stutter free in all areas not ftx at higher super samples than 2368 WITH shadows on.. but at the same resolution in FTX it still stuttered.. even down to a notch above that 2368.. which i still find odd given success by others..

But hold the phone for sec..

I've since swapped hardware to the i7-6700k with the water cooler.. my tests so far (not vr) show that at Stock, no overclock, i'm getting about 2 fps better so far.. i havent had a chance to test 3D/VR yet but i'm assuming i will be smoother at higher levels now, mainly because the gpu is NOT exceeding 67, at least in the test.. 

. though the cpu temps still reached 64 on one core and 57 for lowest on another.. and i was still hoping to push to 4.6-4.7 later on.. not sure if this is due to the way i have the h100i v2 mounted or not.. i went by instructions.. its on top of the v51 case.. set to intake mode.. so radiator on the roof of the inside of the case.. fans under that but set to pull air downward..  it was reading 29C when i first turned it on.. which might have been a few degrees above a warm room temp.  Example, right now near idle, i have temps 23 24, 21, 22

[glider1 90]

set to intake mode.. so radiator on the roof of the inside of the case.. fans under that but set to pull air downward..

 

It is pretty interesting that your GPU temps have come down. Good news.

 

EDIT: from what I can guess, you have decided to pull cool air from the outside through the CPU water cooler into the case. That is fine, you are prioritising keeping the CPU cool which keeps the GPU on air a bit warmer but not bad if you have case fans that vent the hot air out of the case.

 

The other option is to prioritise keeping the GPU on air a bit cooler by pushing warm internal case air through the CPU water cooler to the outside and using case fans to draw in cool air from the outside over the GPU. Most gamers push the GPU on air really hard and so prioritise keeping the GPU cool.

 

We in VR push the CPU and GPU hard. Ideally both on water, but having the CPU on water allows options.

 

On the topic of what kills frames in VR, I found a culprit for frame killing using a 1080. Casting building shadows while in clouds can hit the GPU hard. The frame killer is when the GPU has to both render in cloud and render ground shadows. The other ground shadows like simobjects are less demanding in that situation. Building shadows are the hardest for the GPU to cope with.

[Lenny777 299]

I agree.. its frustrating to have to spend hours tweaking, eventually it should just be plug and chug and no fooling around.  From what i can see so far Aerofly FS2 is a close start (i've been playing with it frequently).  I was going to jump on a $40ish sale for Xplane to do some testing there too, just for comparison's sake.  I cant recall, but is VR working in X-plane.. it was my understanding it wasnt just yet, or maybe with vorpx it is.  I think the folks at flyinsidefsx were considering an x-plane mod soon though.

 

Did you definitely find an increase in x-plane with the upgrade?  I figured as long as i see in upgrade with other games/sims, ill keep it.  I assume maybe 20-30% over the 980ti if the stats out there are accurate.  

 

No VR on X-Plane and it's disturbing that XP 11 there is no indication of that either on the next version.

 

I agree completely with Aerofly FS2. The VR is WAY better on that platform than the Flyinside but there again AFS2 you have a 64 bit platform.

 

With respect to my new card the 1080 Zotac AMPExtreme, it makes a huge difference on X-Plane. I just have to look, after cranking up all kinds of settings that my GPU is still pulling low usage with all that 8GB of vid memory, It's great. The  GTX 970 4 gb card I had although good is not in the same ballpark.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

My build is moving along, i'm now to the point where i think i have stability at stock on the 6700 + 1080.. with one exception..

 

 

 

Initially after getting everything built.. the 1080 + flyinside + ftx areas like KORS were still giving me pan stutters.. that was until i removed the video driver completely, did a driver clean.. then a clean install option with nvidia, removed flyinsidefsx and reinstalled.. now its smooth.. KORS above water is around 27 fps with 4xAA set in P3D plus building shadows and cloud shadows and high settings etc.. (basically these settings here).. 

(this is at the higher super sample res 3840 2374 and AM 85)

 

Quite pleased at this point, though now i'm wondering if my 980ti might have been just as fine had i removed drivers (i think i did but cant recall), at the higher super sample setting..

 

 

 

I'm still getting a glitch in the goggles, similar to the screen shot of the 2D visible glitch i posted here.. anyone else get a flash of pixels every now and then on the RIFT + 1080? (dont recall this on the 980ti)

[glider1 90]

 

 

now its smooth.. KORS above water is around 27 fps with 4xAA set in P3D plus building shadows and cloud shadows and high settings etc.. (basically these settings here).. 

 

Great to hear you are getting the performance in line with your what your hardware should deliver. 27FPS on those settings you posted is pretty good and about the same as mine.

 

I do think you want to think about simobject shadows cast and receive as well since they give you the shadows on the ground from other aircraft and turning receive on enables you to use more options in the PTA shader mod which is pretty much essential to get the brightness-colour settings in VR tuned in to be more natural and realistic.

 

If you are using AS2016, you might have to reduce the number of cloud layers down to 3 from the default 5 helped my FPS a lot. I found that in VR, flying through clouds can hit the GPU pretty hard when it has to calculate not only the visibility of the clouds that the plane is going through, but the clouds in the visibility horizon ahead of the plane as well as the ground shadows popping up when the ground becomes visible.

 

 

 

I'm still getting a glitch in the goggles, similar to the screen shot of the 2D visible glitch i posted here.. anyone else get a flash of pixels every now and then on the RIFT + 1080? (dont recall this on the 980ti)

 

No artifacts at all but I'm on water and the GPU card never gets hotter than 65C under full load at 2.1GHz overclock. I think it is an overheating issue but could be wrong.

 

All the best with your VR in Flyinside! I'm loving it. Will never go back to flat panel again unless forced to.

[whitav8 98]

Just for 64-bit/new-graphics-engine performance reference (I know you want your choice of aircraft and scenery with P3D instead - so do I), quickly try the free War Thunder. I have no problem getting  90fps WITHOUT needing Asynchronous Time Warp - super smooth even with many other aircraft in the scene. You do need to use the Oculus Debug Tool with a Pixel Density of 1.4 or so for clarity and there are lot of visual graphics settings ingame to try. It really shows what a rewrite of FSX++ could be like. I realize the instrument panels are much less complex than a PMDG777 - but still, 90FPS stereo with all shadows on is really nice to try for comparison sake.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

I do think you want to think about simobject shadows cast and receive as well since they give you the shadows on the ground from other aircraft and turning receive on enables you to use more options in the PTA shader mod which is pretty much essential to get the brightness-colour settings in VR tuned in to be more natural and realistic.

 

 

Yeah, i had planned on adding more settings in the mix soon.. ill give those a shot and see how it goes.  I also still need to look into the best PTA settings to adjust as well.

 

 

 

 

No artifacts at all but I'm on water and the GPU card never gets hotter than 65C under full load at 2.1GHz overclock. I think it is an overheating issue but could be wrong.

 

I may try tweaking the evga utiltiy to not let it exceed a lower max temp or max GPU usage and see if those disappear.. maybe a biproduct of the card already being overclocked compared to other cards (factor oc).

 

I found a water cooler evga makes, but it appears its not compatible with this card.. cant find too many that fit either.

 

 

If you are using AS2016, you might have to reduce the number of cloud layers down to 3 from the default 5 helped my FPS a lot. I found that in VR, flying through clouds can hit the GPU pretty hard when it has to calculate not only the visibility of the clouds that the plane is going through, but the clouds in the visibility horizon ahead of the plane as well as the ground shadows popping up when the ground becomes visible.

 

 

Thanks for that tip, I am running AS2016 on the laptop when I turn it on anyway.. i remember this trick from before too, ill have to lower that down

 

 

Aside from all this i'm pushing forward and trying to overclock the CPU.. i tried 4.5ghz and about 1.295 at first.. just a brief 30 min test on prime95 blend (will do 24 hours eventually).. wanted to see how the h100i handled temps as its still on intake.. i had the cover off, but with all that, i still hit 85C for the max temp on one core.. it was 30-33C idle, room ambient maybe 23C..  curious at least how the idle temp compares?  Do you and others with the h100i run the software or just let the bios qfan handle things.. this was on qfan, i've since installed the corsair software.. i've moved it up to 4.6.. but at same volts it was bsod just booting, so i turned LLC to level 1 and volts to 1.315 or so (unsure if general overclock settings like LLC still apply here or not), i'm guessing volts will need to go up, but i may try exhaust first.. sorry slightly offtopic but relevant

 

 

 

 

 

All the best with your VR in Flyinside! I'm loving it. Will never go back to flat panel again unless forced to.

Agree 100%

Just for 64-bit/new-graphics-engine performance reference (I know you want your choice of aircraft and scenery with P3D instead - so do I), quickly try the free War Thunder. I have no problem getting  90fps WITHOUT needing Asynchronous Time Warp - super smooth even with many other aircraft in the scene. You do need to use the Oculus Debug Tool with a Pixel Density of 1.4 or so for clarity and there are lot of visual graphics settings ingame to try. It really shows what a rewrite of FSX++ could be like. I realize the instrument panels are much less complex than a PMDG777 - but still, 90FPS stereo with all shadows on is really nice to try for comparison sake.

I just installed it last night in fact.. hadnt gotten around to testing it out.  DCS world looks great too.  Yeah granted there is less going on in the background with these sims but they do look great.  I think DCS world has the pixel density setting already in its settings.. some games/sims are starting to add that in (like flyinside has its supersample resolution option which I believe from reading their forums is the same thing/setting).

 

Flyinside wise.. there is an updated version out now 1.61.. i havent tried it yet, because i'm still doing baseline comparison tests for the review purposes, but it appears they did in fact at least address the VAS issue.

[glider1 90]

 

 

it was 30-33C idle, room ambient maybe 23C..  curious at least how the idle temp compares?  Do you and others with the h100i run the software or just let the bios qfan handle things.. this was on qfan, i've since installed the corsair software.. i've moved it up to 4.6.. but at same volts it was bsod just booting, so i turned LLC to level 1

 

Mine is 25-28C idle in a 22C room. Good to be conservative about the overclock in case there is some issue with how the cooler head was mounted on the chip. There isn't much difference a couple of 100MHz here or there. A 4.5 OC is fine. I would turn up the LLC level to max but keep the Vcore down low and only progressively raise it as you monitor temperatures over coming weeks. My Vcore has been on 1.40V with max load line calibration for quite a while without issues on a 4.7 OC but every chip is different. LLC determines how tightly the voltage on the chip is regulated as I understand it. The CPU needs better regulation when overclocking but it comes at a cost of heat.

 

Discovered something pretty important with Flyinside and CTD. If you overcook the shadow settings everything might seem fine until you pass through thick overcast conditions. Then the frame rate drops, ATW can't keep a lock and Flyinside 1.61 will crash.

 

Hard lesson learned. Need two different simulator settings, one for VFR and one for IFR. Shadows turned up in VFR but turned down on IFR because of the heavy cloud you get in IFR.