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theskyisthelimit

Flyinside + VR + P3D v3.3 experiences and questions and cfg tweaks

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Decided to take the plunge on VR, despite seeing reports of the resolution difference..

I initially was going with the Oculus Rift, it remained unopened (which i'm now <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" href="http://www.avsim.com/topic/494040-oculus-rift-august-shipment-sealed-new-in-box/?p=3474641">selling</a>)... but since I do a lot of gaming in a room that has a large area, i opted for the Vive..

So here are some specs on what I have at the moment..

My main flying rig is located in an office/den area of my house that is in total about 10 x 12 with a much smaller area for actual VR space (maybe 6 foot wide by 4 foot deep, which is really on the fringe of too small for HTC vive).. my living room setup has a very large area, room space at least 20 deep by 15 wide.. usable area shows as about 2.4 x 2.4 meters but really seems physically bigger maybe 7-8 feet deep and about 7 or 8 foot wide.. my living room rig has an newer i7 processor and a 980 gtx (not the TI), listed below is what i use in the office space for Prepar3D + Vive.

My PC/Flight sim rig:

Motherboard: Ivy Bridge Asus P9x79;
PSU: 1000watt psu;
CPU: 4930k 3.4Ghz hex core (3.9 turbo) and 4.4ghz Overclocked
CPU Cooling: NH-U14S cooler-88C
RAM: 16GB F3-2400C9q-16GTXD @1.65;
LCD: 3 x VE248H 24" 3D
Video card: Nvidia 980 ti SC 06G-P4-4995-KR 6GB

P3Dconfig options:

AffinityMask=1364 (unsure if this still applies)
No buffer pools set
MSAA=4
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=400 (unsure if this still applies)
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0
VSYNC=0
MIPMAP_VC_PANELS=1 (wondering if this should be set to zero for better quality?)
FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.33 (unsure if this still applies)
IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=5
AUTOGEN_BUILDING_DENSITY=4
AUTOGEN_VEGETATION_DENSITY=4
LOD_RADIUS=6.500000
Cloud coverage density set to max (ASN16 recommended this, but i used to have on medium, i may revert back)
CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=8
CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=5

Traffic wise i dont have mytraffic 6x installed yet and i have the sliders mostly at 0 on traffice except freeway at "8" in the cfg
Overall, i have a few sliders in the settings i need to crank up some more.. they are a bit conservative (i think).

 P3D Settings Screenshots 


p3d-graphics.jpg

p3dlighting.jpg
p3dscenery.jpg
p3dweather.jpg
p3dtraffic.jpg



Nvidia Inspector settings:

Initially I left at the defaults.. however i did tweak them to include 4SGSS and a few settings.. thinking maybe increasing the AA here would help make it sharper in the goggles (initial tests, i dont think it helps, besides chopped frame rate)?

I also have had the chance to test the Samsung VR Gear + Samsung S7 Edge + RiftCat (PC) + SteamVR(PC) + Flyinside(PC) + Cardboard enabler + VRidge(connects to rift cat)

Inspector ScreenShots

 


Inspector1.jpg
inspector2.jpg
inspector3.jpg


FlyInside settings:

As of now i have it set to possible artifacts/high on the asynchronous setting.. i have framerate in sim set to unlimited.. i really wasnt sure which settings to try first here.. also.. does anyone know of a way to modify these settings outside of the goggles, as it can be a little difficult to see the full settings from within the goggles.. rather, i guess... not so much difficult as it is more tedious..

Baseline:

As a baseline.. if i load up the default flight in the jet in VA.. sitting on runway unpaused on my old 3 screen setup, full width I'd be around 78 fps not paused.. Once I added 4SGSS options to the mix this became more like 60 to start on 3 screens and about 74 with a single screen (and certain planes such as the carenado c90 gtx hd, drops 60 to 45 to start)..

First tests in VR

I tried the S7 edge for my first test.. it was pretty cool and immersive... but the graphics seemed even more coarse than with the HTC Vive.. after this i moved on and got my vive setup and ready to go

First thoughts with the VIve.. WOW.. i had the laincair legacy loaded up at the default VA flight.. the cockpit was amazing and immersive.. the depth was unreal.. you have this cone of vision though, with the Vive.. i'd say a center circle area where everything is "less blurry" than the rest and maybe more crisp.. its the first thing you notice.. i think due to the way they stretch the 1440p out to say 110 degrees or so.

The zoom toggle with flyinside works well enough..

Some issues I had right off the bat.. flashing.. i dont know why, but with the Vive it was flashing.. almost like bleed through from the desktop.. To remedy this I checked off a setting in steam vr called..enable always-on Reprojection;.. i'm not sure if this is really needed or not..

I began some tests and yes its very immersive and yes the ground textures seem smoothed out, not as sharp as your lcd screen would be, but this is expected.. however, given everything else i think i will stick with VR from here forward.. and certainly the next revision of the hardware with greater resolution will remedy this.

Issues:

Then came an issue.. suddenly my headset froze.. the cockpit movements stopped in the mirror.. i tried unplugging and replugging.. a major downside to doing the unplug or recycling Steam VR, is that it auto closes P3D.. so if you are mid flight in a long journey, you are hosed if something goes wrong and you have close/reopen steam (unless there is some way around this)..

Since this first initial test, after testing the goggles in my living room setup, which worked very well with all of the steam VR titles, no freezing etc.. i've moved it back into the flight sim room and will be continuing to test in the near future and see what the cause of the freeze might have been (perhaps just a wonky usb connection or maybe the steam vr reprojection setting, unsure).

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Hmmm 1440???....I will stay tuned to the video...sold my OR CV1...

 

...promising myself I wouldn't get another VR headset until the resolution – upped to 4K...1920x1080 in each eye.

 

Chas

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Decided to take the plunge on VR, despite seeing reports of the resolution difference..

 

Same here. I'm sticking with VR too, the benefits outweigh the resolution drop. Just to mention one I didn't expect, in VR, you really notice the light level changing at sunrise/sunset very much like you would in the real world which is really immersive.

 

On setting it up, definitely put all your P3D config settings back to default. Since I was running EZDOK, I had to remove my camera config and remove the Flyinside P3D config file and let the software rebuild fresh new copies. Since VSYNC is irrelevant in VR, you only have to worry about either running unlimited or limited frames inside P3D take your pick. I have chosen to limit the frames. I don't think there is much point in affinity mask unless on your hex core you are worried about VAS.

 

If you are getting flashing, could be GPU struggling. I think you might want to remove the SGSS settings in NI and put it all back to default. I use the resolution scaling tool in flyinside for AA smoothing. There is a setting in flyinside for adjusting ATW that reduces the framerate but removes the flashing. You might also want to look into picking up a second hand 980ti to complement your first GPU since flyinside supports SLI. You do have a 1000W PSU so should be fine. I'm running a Rift on a single 1080 and it allows me to have good settings including the most important shadows.

 

You have the right plan by making sure your hardware setup is thoroughly stable so that you can isolate any issues to particular software settings.

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Same here. I'm sticking with VR too, the benefits outweigh the resolution drop. Just to mention one I didn't expect, in VR, you really notice the light level changing at sunrise/sunset very much like you would in the real world which is really immersive.

 

On setting it up, definitely put all your P3D config settings back to default. Since I was running EZDOK, I had to remove my camera config and remove the Flyinside P3D config file and let the software rebuild fresh new copies. Since VSYNC is irrelevant in VR, you only have to worry about either running unlimited or limited frames inside P3D take your pick. I have chosen to limit the frames. I don't think there is much point in affinity mask unless on your hex core you are worried about VAS.

 

If you are getting flashing, could be GPU struggling. I think you might want to remove the SGSS settings in NI and put it all back to default. I use the resolution scaling tool in flyinside for AA smoothing. There is a setting in flyinside for adjusting ATW that reduces the framerate but removes the flashing. You might also want to look into picking up a second hand 980ti to complement your first GPU since flyinside supports SLI. You do have a 1000W PSU so should be fine. I'm running a Rift on a single 1080 and it allows me to have good settings including the most important shadows.

 

You have the right plan by making sure your hardware setup is thoroughly stable so that you can isolate any issues to particular software settings.

 

Yeah i forgot to mention I had disabled EZDOK as well.. i had to add an entry for the VC to work in the aircraft.cfg file.. is this what you mean you did, or did you fully remove eZDOk then reinstall flyinside?

 

I guess since i have (or had it on) unlimited frames in the sim, maybe i should turn vsync on.

 

I had seen some recent posts by RobA on here with AffinityMask still being in play, perhaps its not needed, i can run some benchmarks and see how it differs.

 

You mention the resolution scaling tool.. i havent looked into that yet, but do you enable FXAA in the flyinside settings?

Yeah tonight i'm going to try the 4SGSS turned off in nvidia (default NI profile, no settings changed) and see if the flashing persists and note the flyinside vs real framerate change/flashing.

 

Curious what settings you have enabled, particularly on the lighting side. 

 

Are you suggesting a single 1080 at least equals two 980ti's in sli?  I read that the 1070 is maybe say 5% better than the 980ti, while the 1080 is a bit better than that, so maybe.. curious?  The framerate with my current settings seemed ok in the VR world anyway, but more testing is needed.

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Curious what settings you have enabled, particularly on the lighting side. 

 

It is early days for me as well on VR. I knew the resolution would be the downside and it was humbling to have spent so much money on my rig to get a resolution that is equivalent to what we were seeing a decade a go on cathode ray tubes. People underestimate how much the brain adapts though. I made the decision to push through the low res pain barrier and now find that there are many more upsides than downsides - heaps more. The resolution on VR is pretty good!

 

I'm not making any suggestion on single 1080 verses two 980ti's, just offering the suggestion that plonking in a second 980 might be cheap and quick and simple to get more power. Depends on how much money you have. A single 1080 was the way I went because I had come from a GTX760!

 

On lighting, I have got cloud shadows, cockpit shadows turned on and am happy. Not sure about terrain shadows yet. HDR is missing but honestly it is only a small loss. As for the other eye candies, it is so ironic! With the lower resolution you don't need really high eye candy. We were obsessing about all the eye candy because we looking at a flat panel like a dissatisfied painter looks at a painting and unconsciously thinking "oooh this painting needs more houses or more trees" when in fact we were actually dissatisfied because we were not inside the simulation but looking at it from the outside.

 

Resolution scaling is in the Flyinside settings it works like DSR does. On the 1080 I currently am running the Rift as if it were on 3840 whatever 4K res it is. Flyinside then downscales it back to the resolution of the headset. One of the other Avsimmers has two 980ti's and is doing the same plus SGSS 4 AA. I think too much AA is no good because it merely converts the depiction from being blocky to blurry. Blurry is not what you want either. What you want is your brain to accept what it sees as normal and good. That is what it is to be inside the simulation which you are on VR. Accept the depiction and then go flying.

 

Affinity mask situation has not changed much in VR. The main sim job carries an extra burden in VR and so as the documentation says, there is a 20-50% hit on frames depending how you set up your settings. In VR we don't need all the eye candy so moderately good settings are more than enough to recover the extra frame hit. For me, I think there was only a 20% hit tops on an i6700kOC4.7GHZ. I used to be an Affinity junky. I tried them all. I don't need to worry about VAS personally so I use HT and let P3D control the affinity itself. The one thing that is really important is to allocate at least a couple of cores to all your addons and get them to run well away from the main sim job. My addons run on LP 6-7 (the last core on only two LPS) including AS2016 and then I let P3D run on whatever else it wants. I am on W10 which might work better on HT in any case.

 

Forget about VSYNC. That settings was for flat screen monitors. In the Rift, ATW is all that matters. There is some talk that you want to get the simulator running at a fraction multiple of the ATW. So if the ATW is 90, put the simulator on 30 or 45. I don't think it matters much. The way to think of it is that the ATW keeps the head panning totally smooth if it can maintain it's own frame rate of 75-90. The simulation frame rate keeps the simulation smooth and nothing else. Putting the simulator on unlimited may or may not keep the simulator running smooth. For me, it doesn't. I'm still experimenting. Realise that we don't have any ability to run an external frame rate limiter in VR, but that doesn't matter since ATW is keeping the panning much smoother than anything we have seen before, and then just set the simulator up to run itself smoother. 25FPS internal limit is also reasonable. It depends on what you need. If you are flying in a straight line most of the time, you only need 25FPS. I fly VR gliders and so a lot of the time in a turn, I want a higher FPS but I fly in rural areas so a higher FPS is fine. In a tight turn, the pixels on the screen have to travel a further distance so a 30FPS limit flying straight a head appears more like 15FPS in a turn even when it is still locked on 30FPS.

 

On EZDOK, I just don't run the executable and let P3D rebuild the cameras.cfg and let flyinside rebuild it's own P3D config. EZDOK is off if the executable is not running and there are no special camera settings. I have not uninstalled EZDOK.  I haven't touched the aircraft.cfg's. You only need to do that if you are not happy with the default seating position in VR. In my case I fly A2A and an Aerosoft ASK21 which is already perfect for VR. I do reset the seating position with CTRL-space when I feel like it and other internal P3D keys for adjusting my position with respect to the cockpit.

 

Give yourself a few sessions. Hopefully you will come through the pain barrier the better for it. It has taken me at least two three full days to set up P3D settings and buttons so that I am happy in VR flying without needing to look at buttons in the real world, but feel it like braille.

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It is early days for me as well on VR. I knew the resolution would be the downside and it was humbling to have spent so much money on my rig to get a resolution that is equivalent to what we were seeing a decade a go on cathode ray tubes. People underestimate how much the brain adapts though. I made the decision to push through the low res pain barrier and now find that there are many more upsides than downsides - heaps more. The resolution on VR is pretty good!

 

 

Thanks for the info.. yeah for some reason my aircraft.cfg entry was missing the required virtual cockpit heading.. so i had to go in and manually add it.. the only one in there was the one for ezdok..

 

You mention setting the sim? to whatever the 4k res is.. do you mean inside p3d you have set to the max res based on the lcd you have hooked up, which i assume you have something in the 4k realm?  In my case, if i have surround spanning OFF on my three 24's.. in p3d i only see 1080 as an option..

 

So for kicks i set it to surround mode.. and now i have 5760x1080 as the option in p3d.

 

Unfortunately this made no difference in terms of the blurry distant textures.  Neither did setting the AA within P3D, i went from 4x to 8x, no change.. didnt try the option of NI again, left it default for now.

 

I started getting flashing mid flight last nite.. maybe because i turned on shadows and set water to be full slider to the right instead of middle, unsure.

 

I'm unclear on what alot of the flyinside settings are.. i hope i can find a pdf or some help file on them..

For instance.. the Field of View overdraw slider.. does this limit the FOV of the goggles.. i think the Vive/Rift have a max FOV of 110 degrees.. i think it was set to 103% by default.. is this 103 degrees?  I tried lowering to say 95, thinking it would sharpen things in the distance.. it didnt.. (side note.. fov wise.. a goggle company is working on a goggle that does something in the neighborhood of 210 degrees FOV, near human FOV, and twice the res of the current tech, but that res gets spread over the FOV, which res with goggles should really be resolution per degree or something, still 210 FOV would be awesome, but lets hope for more res in the future over fov, i say anyway).

 

I didnt really see a difference enabling FXAA in the flyinside settings either.

 

So i took a flight again in the lancair from the default VA flight location.. it was pretty awesome in terms of the feeling and on landing at the other airport in the distance, being able to see if you were going to clear buildings in the path.. but the blurries in the distance really cuts down on things.. like being able to spot runways in the distance..straining to tell, trying to zoom, unzoom etc, i sure hope this can be cleared up or improves with the current goggles.. ill give it more time and tweaking, but i'm actually a little concerned on this factor more than i thought i would be.  Maybe boosting the fps will help.

 

I also dont recall, the flyinside popup that appears has two values.. i want to say one was the sim's "real" frame rate and the other was the flyinside vr frame rate, but now i cant recall which is which, because in my testing lately they are nearly the same, say around 48 fps so.. something like 46/48 etc.  (edit: i guess sim is on the left, goggles on the right)

 

*Also.. for now with the vive, i have my room area for the vive set to basically NOT encompass the area of the screens in front of me, not sure if this affects distant rendering or not, i'm thinking not.. i mean, my desk is against the wall, so i set the square area from behind the desk in the free space.. this might affect the ability to get out and "walk around" the aircraft (unsure how thats done, maybe with the person aircraft?, havent toyed with this yet).. then again, you cant walk through the desk to the nose of plane anyway.

 

Back to the "monitor display" in flyinside.. i see many set this to 15 fps.. does this mean "p3d frame rate", i mentioned i had it set to unlimited since the sim is unlimited.. should this match whatever the sim is set to.. so if its only set to 15, then the sim should be limited to 15, seems really low.

 

**another big issue i'm running into is crashes.. often p3d will crash on loading.. kernelbase.dll errors it seems.. unsure if related to vr or possible addons.. 

**also.. it seems that flyinside was using a different set of scenery.cfg settings.. hence my screen shots on here were different when p3d is launched in a normal way vs flyinside exe.. or maybe its related to simstarter i have installed.. unsure.. i have too many things going on at once i think to tell.. also, just on a "reset" of the default flight once i hit out of memory vas error and closed

 

I must say though, I'm questioning, if sticking with VR, the need for my saitek panels.. especially if leap motion works well enough.. 

 

 

I hear so many mixed reviews on leap.. are you testing it as well.. does it kill fps and not work very well?

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Hi there

There is a very active support forum wiith links to a user guide wiki at the flyinside website=why don't you have a look there?

BW

Jay

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I'm unclear on what alot of the flyinside settings are.. i hope i can find a pdf or some help file on them..

 

that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

 

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

 

Chas

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that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

 

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

 

Chas

Yeah ill have a go at the site and the Q&A.. hopefully it helps..

 

On the leap side of things..

 

I see this $11 kit for VR with mixed reviews.. maybe it works for the vive, maybe not, unsure 

 

Then the base $49 leap motion  (this one lists updated software, unsure how it differs if any hardware wise from the $51 located here)  edit, per here, i guess the base hardware is the same, now the only question is on 3rd party vr attachments.. the vr bundle comes with a 15 foot usb cable, i dont think the $11 kit does (the full vr kit can be had for $20 off leap though, making the total more like $74 after shipping, rather than $89 like the amazon combo).  edit again:  leap motion has the vr bundle for $69 after shipping through sept 10th, savings of $20 off amazon, making this tantalizing to try

 

Then there is the VR developer version, which i think may be more expensive than those two combined simply because it is a "dev" version?  Unsure why one would need to pay $89 vs a combined $59?  I assume the base leap in the vr developer kit is the same model, but maybe its improved?

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Hmmm 1440???....I will stay tuned to the video...sold my OR CV1...

 

...promising myself I wouldn't get another VR headset until the resolution – upped to 4K...1920x1080 in each eye.

 

Chas

See you in 2022 then.

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I also dont recall, the flyinside popup that appears has two values.. i want to say one was the sim's "real" frame rate and the other was the flyinside vr frame rate, but now i cant recall which is which, because in my testing lately they are nearly the same, say around 48 fps so.. something like 46/48 etc. (edit: i guess sim is on the left, goggles on the right)

 

The Rift ATW framerate is on the right. Yours is showing 48. That is too low. It should be 90 maybe down to 75. The number on the left is the simulator FPS. Yours is 46. You don't need it that high.

 

Suggest heading over to Flyinside forums and also getting back to basics. Use default flyinside settings; making sure the frame rates are correct; Only one external monitor connected to the GPU.

 

Later on, you can tune the AA and reduce blurries once everything is stable and you totally have your head around the software and what and what isn't possible.

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that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

Chas

As a vive and flyinside user I cannot disagree more-I had an issue and Dan Church the developer debugged my system and resolved the issue last night-this is a first for me in more than 20 years of simming.The customer support is next to none.

Jay

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As a vive and flyinside user I cannot disagree more-I had an issue and Dan Church the developer debugged my system and resolved the issue last night-this is a first for me in more than 20 years of simming.The customer support is next to none.

Jay

  

Support has always been fast and personal direct from Dan. The flyinside fsx own forum is a great place to start.

There is also a manual here.

http://wiki.flyinside-fsx.com/index.php/Main_Page

Also on the flyinside page there are faqs, guides and tutorials.

Not sure what else you need.

Chris

I experienced the same personal assistance, but he was never able to figure out why my Oculus Rift CV1 could not display his product properly in P3d, and returned my money...sold my OR two weeks after it came out.

 

My beef was not with him Or his customer support efforts, rather, as stated, with the lack of a manual.

 

I am pleased for you guys and one day expect to join you in the VR world… Until then,

 

Cheers and enjoy!

 

Chas

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Just some updates on my journey so far.  I started digging into the forum over at flyinside, i'm sure ill get answers to some things through there and the help system as I move along.

 

I'm trying to move forward in testing and getting things smooth, starting from basics as suggested.

 

Using my full blown p3d config and dll/exe configs.. (possibly related more testing needed).. i ran into some crashes.. 

 

Once just in the flyinside menu system, messing with the FOV and another while flying, the whole thing just crashed (p3d)..

I also reverted to non overclocked status with my rig (3.4ghz instead of 4.4 and 1600 on the ram instead of 2400)..

(default jet this time not lancair, default flight)

 

Here were the error codes:

 

This the just flying error 

The instruction at 0x00000057DBF20C referenced memory could not be written
(ntdll.dll with exception 0xc0000374)

 

Then the error while messing with the fov:

After crashed, event viewer : msvcr120.dll 0x0c0000409 

 

At this point later today ill test more again, this time removing the dll.xml / exe.xml as a start then maybe resetting/removing the prepar3d.cfg as well and go from there.

Also when this crashed I had turned off all of my addon scenery except FTX, UTX and Vector (And Gex), just to rule those out and load faster between.

 

 

One thing i wanted to ask, was.. as i have tried to find this answer before but not many have done a direct compare.. i'm seeing on generic video comparisons between the Rift and Vive, that the Rift may in fact be a tad sharper (no matter how much adjusting on the Vive).. what i'm curious on is if anyone has done a side by side between the two related to the "low" res of the "distant" graphics in P3D.. i'm wondering if the Rift sharpens them any.. maybe enough to justify only using the Rift for P3D?  I'm guessing the slight increase probably doesnt make a large enough difference though.  (and yeah, i want to try some of the super sampling tricks either via NI or via Steam, see here, though i'm not sure the steam mod will help in P3D).

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