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theskyisthelimit

Flyinside + VR + P3D v3.3 experiences and questions and cfg tweaks

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Decided to take the plunge on VR, despite seeing reports of the resolution difference..

I initially was going with the Oculus Rift, it remained unopened (which i'm now <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" href="http://www.avsim.com/topic/494040-oculus-rift-august-shipment-sealed-new-in-box/?p=3474641">selling</a>)... but since I do a lot of gaming in a room that has a large area, i opted for the Vive..

So here are some specs on what I have at the moment..

My main flying rig is located in an office/den area of my house that is in total about 10 x 12 with a much smaller area for actual VR space (maybe 6 foot wide by 4 foot deep, which is really on the fringe of too small for HTC vive).. my living room setup has a very large area, room space at least 20 deep by 15 wide.. usable area shows as about 2.4 x 2.4 meters but really seems physically bigger maybe 7-8 feet deep and about 7 or 8 foot wide.. my living room rig has an newer i7 processor and a 980 gtx (not the TI), listed below is what i use in the office space for Prepar3D + Vive.

My PC/Flight sim rig:

Motherboard: Ivy Bridge Asus P9x79;
PSU: 1000watt psu;
CPU: 4930k 3.4Ghz hex core (3.9 turbo) and 4.4ghz Overclocked
CPU Cooling: NH-U14S cooler-88C
RAM: 16GB F3-2400C9q-16GTXD @1.65;
LCD: 3 x VE248H 24" 3D
Video card: Nvidia 980 ti SC 06G-P4-4995-KR 6GB

P3Dconfig options:

AffinityMask=1364 (unsure if this still applies)
No buffer pools set
MSAA=4
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=400 (unsure if this still applies)
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0
VSYNC=0
MIPMAP_VC_PANELS=1 (wondering if this should be set to zero for better quality?)
FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.33 (unsure if this still applies)
IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=5
AUTOGEN_BUILDING_DENSITY=4
AUTOGEN_VEGETATION_DENSITY=4
LOD_RADIUS=6.500000
Cloud coverage density set to max (ASN16 recommended this, but i used to have on medium, i may revert back)
CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=8
CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=5

Traffic wise i dont have mytraffic 6x installed yet and i have the sliders mostly at 0 on traffice except freeway at "8" in the cfg
Overall, i have a few sliders in the settings i need to crank up some more.. they are a bit conservative (i think).

 P3D Settings Screenshots 


p3d-graphics.jpg

p3dlighting.jpg
p3dscenery.jpg
p3dweather.jpg
p3dtraffic.jpg



Nvidia Inspector settings:

Initially I left at the defaults.. however i did tweak them to include 4SGSS and a few settings.. thinking maybe increasing the AA here would help make it sharper in the goggles (initial tests, i dont think it helps, besides chopped frame rate)?

I also have had the chance to test the Samsung VR Gear + Samsung S7 Edge + RiftCat (PC) + SteamVR(PC) + Flyinside(PC) + Cardboard enabler + VRidge(connects to rift cat)

Inspector ScreenShots

 


Inspector1.jpg
inspector2.jpg
inspector3.jpg


FlyInside settings:

As of now i have it set to possible artifacts/high on the asynchronous setting.. i have framerate in sim set to unlimited.. i really wasnt sure which settings to try first here.. also.. does anyone know of a way to modify these settings outside of the goggles, as it can be a little difficult to see the full settings from within the goggles.. rather, i guess... not so much difficult as it is more tedious..

Baseline:

As a baseline.. if i load up the default flight in the jet in VA.. sitting on runway unpaused on my old 3 screen setup, full width I'd be around 78 fps not paused.. Once I added 4SGSS options to the mix this became more like 60 to start on 3 screens and about 74 with a single screen (and certain planes such as the carenado c90 gtx hd, drops 60 to 45 to start)..

First tests in VR

I tried the S7 edge for my first test.. it was pretty cool and immersive... but the graphics seemed even more coarse than with the HTC Vive.. after this i moved on and got my vive setup and ready to go

First thoughts with the VIve.. WOW.. i had the laincair legacy loaded up at the default VA flight.. the cockpit was amazing and immersive.. the depth was unreal.. you have this cone of vision though, with the Vive.. i'd say a center circle area where everything is "less blurry" than the rest and maybe more crisp.. its the first thing you notice.. i think due to the way they stretch the 1440p out to say 110 degrees or so.

The zoom toggle with flyinside works well enough..

Some issues I had right off the bat.. flashing.. i dont know why, but with the Vive it was flashing.. almost like bleed through from the desktop.. To remedy this I checked off a setting in steam vr called..enable always-on Reprojection;.. i'm not sure if this is really needed or not..

I began some tests and yes its very immersive and yes the ground textures seem smoothed out, not as sharp as your lcd screen would be, but this is expected.. however, given everything else i think i will stick with VR from here forward.. and certainly the next revision of the hardware with greater resolution will remedy this.

Issues:

Then came an issue.. suddenly my headset froze.. the cockpit movements stopped in the mirror.. i tried unplugging and replugging.. a major downside to doing the unplug or recycling Steam VR, is that it auto closes P3D.. so if you are mid flight in a long journey, you are hosed if something goes wrong and you have close/reopen steam (unless there is some way around this)..

Since this first initial test, after testing the goggles in my living room setup, which worked very well with all of the steam VR titles, no freezing etc.. i've moved it back into the flight sim room and will be continuing to test in the near future and see what the cause of the freeze might have been (perhaps just a wonky usb connection or maybe the steam vr reprojection setting, unsure).

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Hmmm 1440???....I will stay tuned to the video...sold my OR CV1...

 

...promising myself I wouldn't get another VR headset until the resolution – upped to 4K...1920x1080 in each eye.

 

Chas

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Decided to take the plunge on VR, despite seeing reports of the resolution difference..

 

Same here. I'm sticking with VR too, the benefits outweigh the resolution drop. Just to mention one I didn't expect, in VR, you really notice the light level changing at sunrise/sunset very much like you would in the real world which is really immersive.

 

On setting it up, definitely put all your P3D config settings back to default. Since I was running EZDOK, I had to remove my camera config and remove the Flyinside P3D config file and let the software rebuild fresh new copies. Since VSYNC is irrelevant in VR, you only have to worry about either running unlimited or limited frames inside P3D take your pick. I have chosen to limit the frames. I don't think there is much point in affinity mask unless on your hex core you are worried about VAS.

 

If you are getting flashing, could be GPU struggling. I think you might want to remove the SGSS settings in NI and put it all back to default. I use the resolution scaling tool in flyinside for AA smoothing. There is a setting in flyinside for adjusting ATW that reduces the framerate but removes the flashing. You might also want to look into picking up a second hand 980ti to complement your first GPU since flyinside supports SLI. You do have a 1000W PSU so should be fine. I'm running a Rift on a single 1080 and it allows me to have good settings including the most important shadows.

 

You have the right plan by making sure your hardware setup is thoroughly stable so that you can isolate any issues to particular software settings.

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Same here. I'm sticking with VR too, the benefits outweigh the resolution drop. Just to mention one I didn't expect, in VR, you really notice the light level changing at sunrise/sunset very much like you would in the real world which is really immersive.

 

On setting it up, definitely put all your P3D config settings back to default. Since I was running EZDOK, I had to remove my camera config and remove the Flyinside P3D config file and let the software rebuild fresh new copies. Since VSYNC is irrelevant in VR, you only have to worry about either running unlimited or limited frames inside P3D take your pick. I have chosen to limit the frames. I don't think there is much point in affinity mask unless on your hex core you are worried about VAS.

 

If you are getting flashing, could be GPU struggling. I think you might want to remove the SGSS settings in NI and put it all back to default. I use the resolution scaling tool in flyinside for AA smoothing. There is a setting in flyinside for adjusting ATW that reduces the framerate but removes the flashing. You might also want to look into picking up a second hand 980ti to complement your first GPU since flyinside supports SLI. You do have a 1000W PSU so should be fine. I'm running a Rift on a single 1080 and it allows me to have good settings including the most important shadows.

 

You have the right plan by making sure your hardware setup is thoroughly stable so that you can isolate any issues to particular software settings.

 

Yeah i forgot to mention I had disabled EZDOK as well.. i had to add an entry for the VC to work in the aircraft.cfg file.. is this what you mean you did, or did you fully remove eZDOk then reinstall flyinside?

 

I guess since i have (or had it on) unlimited frames in the sim, maybe i should turn vsync on.

 

I had seen some recent posts by RobA on here with AffinityMask still being in play, perhaps its not needed, i can run some benchmarks and see how it differs.

 

You mention the resolution scaling tool.. i havent looked into that yet, but do you enable FXAA in the flyinside settings?

Yeah tonight i'm going to try the 4SGSS turned off in nvidia (default NI profile, no settings changed) and see if the flashing persists and note the flyinside vs real framerate change/flashing.

 

Curious what settings you have enabled, particularly on the lighting side. 

 

Are you suggesting a single 1080 at least equals two 980ti's in sli?  I read that the 1070 is maybe say 5% better than the 980ti, while the 1080 is a bit better than that, so maybe.. curious?  The framerate with my current settings seemed ok in the VR world anyway, but more testing is needed.

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Curious what settings you have enabled, particularly on the lighting side. 

 

It is early days for me as well on VR. I knew the resolution would be the downside and it was humbling to have spent so much money on my rig to get a resolution that is equivalent to what we were seeing a decade a go on cathode ray tubes. People underestimate how much the brain adapts though. I made the decision to push through the low res pain barrier and now find that there are many more upsides than downsides - heaps more. The resolution on VR is pretty good!

 

I'm not making any suggestion on single 1080 verses two 980ti's, just offering the suggestion that plonking in a second 980 might be cheap and quick and simple to get more power. Depends on how much money you have. A single 1080 was the way I went because I had come from a GTX760!

 

On lighting, I have got cloud shadows, cockpit shadows turned on and am happy. Not sure about terrain shadows yet. HDR is missing but honestly it is only a small loss. As for the other eye candies, it is so ironic! With the lower resolution you don't need really high eye candy. We were obsessing about all the eye candy because we looking at a flat panel like a dissatisfied painter looks at a painting and unconsciously thinking "oooh this painting needs more houses or more trees" when in fact we were actually dissatisfied because we were not inside the simulation but looking at it from the outside.

 

Resolution scaling is in the Flyinside settings it works like DSR does. On the 1080 I currently am running the Rift as if it were on 3840 whatever 4K res it is. Flyinside then downscales it back to the resolution of the headset. One of the other Avsimmers has two 980ti's and is doing the same plus SGSS 4 AA. I think too much AA is no good because it merely converts the depiction from being blocky to blurry. Blurry is not what you want either. What you want is your brain to accept what it sees as normal and good. That is what it is to be inside the simulation which you are on VR. Accept the depiction and then go flying.

 

Affinity mask situation has not changed much in VR. The main sim job carries an extra burden in VR and so as the documentation says, there is a 20-50% hit on frames depending how you set up your settings. In VR we don't need all the eye candy so moderately good settings are more than enough to recover the extra frame hit. For me, I think there was only a 20% hit tops on an i6700kOC4.7GHZ. I used to be an Affinity junky. I tried them all. I don't need to worry about VAS personally so I use HT and let P3D control the affinity itself. The one thing that is really important is to allocate at least a couple of cores to all your addons and get them to run well away from the main sim job. My addons run on LP 6-7 (the last core on only two LPS) including AS2016 and then I let P3D run on whatever else it wants. I am on W10 which might work better on HT in any case.

 

Forget about VSYNC. That settings was for flat screen monitors. In the Rift, ATW is all that matters. There is some talk that you want to get the simulator running at a fraction multiple of the ATW. So if the ATW is 90, put the simulator on 30 or 45. I don't think it matters much. The way to think of it is that the ATW keeps the head panning totally smooth if it can maintain it's own frame rate of 75-90. The simulation frame rate keeps the simulation smooth and nothing else. Putting the simulator on unlimited may or may not keep the simulator running smooth. For me, it doesn't. I'm still experimenting. Realise that we don't have any ability to run an external frame rate limiter in VR, but that doesn't matter since ATW is keeping the panning much smoother than anything we have seen before, and then just set the simulator up to run itself smoother. 25FPS internal limit is also reasonable. It depends on what you need. If you are flying in a straight line most of the time, you only need 25FPS. I fly VR gliders and so a lot of the time in a turn, I want a higher FPS but I fly in rural areas so a higher FPS is fine. In a tight turn, the pixels on the screen have to travel a further distance so a 30FPS limit flying straight a head appears more like 15FPS in a turn even when it is still locked on 30FPS.

 

On EZDOK, I just don't run the executable and let P3D rebuild the cameras.cfg and let flyinside rebuild it's own P3D config. EZDOK is off if the executable is not running and there are no special camera settings. I have not uninstalled EZDOK.  I haven't touched the aircraft.cfg's. You only need to do that if you are not happy with the default seating position in VR. In my case I fly A2A and an Aerosoft ASK21 which is already perfect for VR. I do reset the seating position with CTRL-space when I feel like it and other internal P3D keys for adjusting my position with respect to the cockpit.

 

Give yourself a few sessions. Hopefully you will come through the pain barrier the better for it. It has taken me at least two three full days to set up P3D settings and buttons so that I am happy in VR flying without needing to look at buttons in the real world, but feel it like braille.

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It is early days for me as well on VR. I knew the resolution would be the downside and it was humbling to have spent so much money on my rig to get a resolution that is equivalent to what we were seeing a decade a go on cathode ray tubes. People underestimate how much the brain adapts though. I made the decision to push through the low res pain barrier and now find that there are many more upsides than downsides - heaps more. The resolution on VR is pretty good!

 

 

Thanks for the info.. yeah for some reason my aircraft.cfg entry was missing the required virtual cockpit heading.. so i had to go in and manually add it.. the only one in there was the one for ezdok..

 

You mention setting the sim? to whatever the 4k res is.. do you mean inside p3d you have set to the max res based on the lcd you have hooked up, which i assume you have something in the 4k realm?  In my case, if i have surround spanning OFF on my three 24's.. in p3d i only see 1080 as an option..

 

So for kicks i set it to surround mode.. and now i have 5760x1080 as the option in p3d.

 

Unfortunately this made no difference in terms of the blurry distant textures.  Neither did setting the AA within P3D, i went from 4x to 8x, no change.. didnt try the option of NI again, left it default for now.

 

I started getting flashing mid flight last nite.. maybe because i turned on shadows and set water to be full slider to the right instead of middle, unsure.

 

I'm unclear on what alot of the flyinside settings are.. i hope i can find a pdf or some help file on them..

For instance.. the Field of View overdraw slider.. does this limit the FOV of the goggles.. i think the Vive/Rift have a max FOV of 110 degrees.. i think it was set to 103% by default.. is this 103 degrees?  I tried lowering to say 95, thinking it would sharpen things in the distance.. it didnt.. (side note.. fov wise.. a goggle company is working on a goggle that does something in the neighborhood of 210 degrees FOV, near human FOV, and twice the res of the current tech, but that res gets spread over the FOV, which res with goggles should really be resolution per degree or something, still 210 FOV would be awesome, but lets hope for more res in the future over fov, i say anyway).

 

I didnt really see a difference enabling FXAA in the flyinside settings either.

 

So i took a flight again in the lancair from the default VA flight location.. it was pretty awesome in terms of the feeling and on landing at the other airport in the distance, being able to see if you were going to clear buildings in the path.. but the blurries in the distance really cuts down on things.. like being able to spot runways in the distance..straining to tell, trying to zoom, unzoom etc, i sure hope this can be cleared up or improves with the current goggles.. ill give it more time and tweaking, but i'm actually a little concerned on this factor more than i thought i would be.  Maybe boosting the fps will help.

 

I also dont recall, the flyinside popup that appears has two values.. i want to say one was the sim's "real" frame rate and the other was the flyinside vr frame rate, but now i cant recall which is which, because in my testing lately they are nearly the same, say around 48 fps so.. something like 46/48 etc.  (edit: i guess sim is on the left, goggles on the right)

 

*Also.. for now with the vive, i have my room area for the vive set to basically NOT encompass the area of the screens in front of me, not sure if this affects distant rendering or not, i'm thinking not.. i mean, my desk is against the wall, so i set the square area from behind the desk in the free space.. this might affect the ability to get out and "walk around" the aircraft (unsure how thats done, maybe with the person aircraft?, havent toyed with this yet).. then again, you cant walk through the desk to the nose of plane anyway.

 

Back to the "monitor display" in flyinside.. i see many set this to 15 fps.. does this mean "p3d frame rate", i mentioned i had it set to unlimited since the sim is unlimited.. should this match whatever the sim is set to.. so if its only set to 15, then the sim should be limited to 15, seems really low.

 

**another big issue i'm running into is crashes.. often p3d will crash on loading.. kernelbase.dll errors it seems.. unsure if related to vr or possible addons.. 

**also.. it seems that flyinside was using a different set of scenery.cfg settings.. hence my screen shots on here were different when p3d is launched in a normal way vs flyinside exe.. or maybe its related to simstarter i have installed.. unsure.. i have too many things going on at once i think to tell.. also, just on a "reset" of the default flight once i hit out of memory vas error and closed

 

I must say though, I'm questioning, if sticking with VR, the need for my saitek panels.. especially if leap motion works well enough.. 

 

 

I hear so many mixed reviews on leap.. are you testing it as well.. does it kill fps and not work very well?

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Hi there

There is a very active support forum wiith links to a user guide wiki at the flyinside website=why don't you have a look there?

BW

Jay

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I'm unclear on what alot of the flyinside settings are.. i hope i can find a pdf or some help file on them..

 

that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

 

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

 

Chas

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that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

 

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

 

Chas

Yeah ill have a go at the site and the Q&A.. hopefully it helps..

 

On the leap side of things..

 

I see this $11 kit for VR with mixed reviews.. maybe it works for the vive, maybe not, unsure 

 

Then the base $49 leap motion  (this one lists updated software, unsure how it differs if any hardware wise from the $51 located here)  edit, per here, i guess the base hardware is the same, now the only question is on 3rd party vr attachments.. the vr bundle comes with a 15 foot usb cable, i dont think the $11 kit does (the full vr kit can be had for $20 off leap though, making the total more like $74 after shipping, rather than $89 like the amazon combo).  edit again:  leap motion has the vr bundle for $69 after shipping through sept 10th, savings of $20 off amazon, making this tantalizing to try

 

Then there is the VR developer version, which i think may be more expensive than those two combined simply because it is a "dev" version?  Unsure why one would need to pay $89 vs a combined $59?  I assume the base leap in the vr developer kit is the same model, but maybe its improved?

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Hmmm 1440???....I will stay tuned to the video...sold my OR CV1...

 

...promising myself I wouldn't get another VR headset until the resolution – upped to 4K...1920x1080 in each eye.

 

Chas

See you in 2022 then.

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I also dont recall, the flyinside popup that appears has two values.. i want to say one was the sim's "real" frame rate and the other was the flyinside vr frame rate, but now i cant recall which is which, because in my testing lately they are nearly the same, say around 48 fps so.. something like 46/48 etc. (edit: i guess sim is on the left, goggles on the right)

 

The Rift ATW framerate is on the right. Yours is showing 48. That is too low. It should be 90 maybe down to 75. The number on the left is the simulator FPS. Yours is 46. You don't need it that high.

 

Suggest heading over to Flyinside forums and also getting back to basics. Use default flyinside settings; making sure the frame rates are correct; Only one external monitor connected to the GPU.

 

Later on, you can tune the AA and reduce blurries once everything is stable and you totally have your head around the software and what and what isn't possible.

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that was my complaint from the get-go ...no manual no user guide. For are such a functional and well laid out product, this is an arrogant, rookie ludicrous omission, and a disservice to both the developer's pocketbook, and certainly us users.

However, if you look closer on the site in the Q&A ...some enlightenment is available. Though I would love to be proven wrong, I doubt things have changed since my experience with fly inside.

Chas

As a vive and flyinside user I cannot disagree more-I had an issue and Dan Church the developer debugged my system and resolved the issue last night-this is a first for me in more than 20 years of simming.The customer support is next to none.

Jay

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As a vive and flyinside user I cannot disagree more-I had an issue and Dan Church the developer debugged my system and resolved the issue last night-this is a first for me in more than 20 years of simming.The customer support is next to none.

Jay

  

Support has always been fast and personal direct from Dan. The flyinside fsx own forum is a great place to start.

There is also a manual here.

http://wiki.flyinside-fsx.com/index.php/Main_Page

Also on the flyinside page there are faqs, guides and tutorials.

Not sure what else you need.

Chris

I experienced the same personal assistance, but he was never able to figure out why my Oculus Rift CV1 could not display his product properly in P3d, and returned my money...sold my OR two weeks after it came out.

 

My beef was not with him Or his customer support efforts, rather, as stated, with the lack of a manual.

 

I am pleased for you guys and one day expect to join you in the VR world… Until then,

 

Cheers and enjoy!

 

Chas

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Just some updates on my journey so far.  I started digging into the forum over at flyinside, i'm sure ill get answers to some things through there and the help system as I move along.

 

I'm trying to move forward in testing and getting things smooth, starting from basics as suggested.

 

Using my full blown p3d config and dll/exe configs.. (possibly related more testing needed).. i ran into some crashes.. 

 

Once just in the flyinside menu system, messing with the FOV and another while flying, the whole thing just crashed (p3d)..

I also reverted to non overclocked status with my rig (3.4ghz instead of 4.4 and 1600 on the ram instead of 2400)..

(default jet this time not lancair, default flight)

 

Here were the error codes:

 

This the just flying error 

The instruction at 0x00000057DBF20C referenced memory could not be written
(ntdll.dll with exception 0xc0000374)

 

Then the error while messing with the fov:

After crashed, event viewer : msvcr120.dll 0x0c0000409 

 

At this point later today ill test more again, this time removing the dll.xml / exe.xml as a start then maybe resetting/removing the prepar3d.cfg as well and go from there.

Also when this crashed I had turned off all of my addon scenery except FTX, UTX and Vector (And Gex), just to rule those out and load faster between.

 

 

One thing i wanted to ask, was.. as i have tried to find this answer before but not many have done a direct compare.. i'm seeing on generic video comparisons between the Rift and Vive, that the Rift may in fact be a tad sharper (no matter how much adjusting on the Vive).. what i'm curious on is if anyone has done a side by side between the two related to the "low" res of the "distant" graphics in P3D.. i'm wondering if the Rift sharpens them any.. maybe enough to justify only using the Rift for P3D?  I'm guessing the slight increase probably doesnt make a large enough difference though.  (and yeah, i want to try some of the super sampling tricks either via NI or via Steam, see here, though i'm not sure the steam mod will help in P3D).

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i'm wondering if the Rift sharpens them

 

Well done for pushing through the rebuilding of your VR system. It inspires me as I also do the same. I think VR is actually designed for people that want to fly GA. Tube liner pilots really don't need VR.

 

On the sharpening/clarity side of things, the resolution of both vive and rift are the same. The only possible difference is if there is something in the focus mechanism of either headset that improves focusing.

 

Here is the crunch. I'm almost sure that if people want to fly ORBX quality scenery in VR, they are going to need either an SLI rig or a preferably overclocked 1080. The reason is that the image quality is just barely acceptable on FlyInside max resolution (3840 res). Any graphics card lower than those specs would be fine for default scenery without adding a lot of shadows etc but not Orbx scenery.

 

On a water cooled 1080, I'm finding that the Rift can lock to 90fps pretty much everywhere and on full P3D GPU settings (not the CPU settings) including most shadows.

 

You have to split your thinking between CPU and GPU limits. In VR they are largely separate problems.

 

On my overclocked i6700k I have had to drop from 35 internal limit to 25 internal limit to keep the same CPU settings in P3D (traffic etc). This is exactly what Dan said would happen. Flyinside chops off 20% or so in CPU limited simulator frames.

 

BUT.

 

Since the headset framerate is locked on 90 (GPU), head panning is so smooth with no stuttering or juddering, that it doesn't matter if the simulator is internally locked at only 25.

 

All the eye strain I used to get on flat screen, was because I was focusing on a flat image close to my head that stutters away on a low GPU frame rate as well as low CPU framerate with all sorts of monitor refresh dramas and TrackIR dramas that go along with a flatscreen.

 

In the Rift, I'm finding that focusing on infinity is much more relaxing for my eyes, my distance vision is improving in the real world, and because the flyinside GPU frames are locked at 90 on my 1080 rig, there is virtually no eye strain.

 

The other really good thing is that since we don't need Vsync, there is no input lag problem, and locking the sim internally at 25fps is actually very smooth and responsive (for the purposes of general aviation). At 25fps internal lock, the CPU can keep up better with the work load and you can start adding more CPU intensive stuff like traffic.

 

Best of luck with setting up VR. Honestly, if you want ORBX and visuals similar to how you had it on a monitor (but with just barely acceptable resolution clarity) an SLI rig or 1080 preferably overclocked rig is needed so that you can enable the flyinside 4xoversampling and lock to 90fps headset frames.

 

NOTE: the flyinside "import panels" feature can have a seriously bad impact on frame rates. I only use the built in simulator panels (kneeboard etc). Importing panels is too much load on frame rates unless you are flying in default scenery or on lower upscaling resolutions.

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Well done for pushing through the rebuilding of your VR system. It inspires me as I also do the same. I think VR is actually designed for people that want to fly GA. Tube liner pilots really don't need VR.

 

On the sharpening/clarity side of things, the resolution of both vive and rift are the same. The only possible difference is if there is something in the focus mechanism of either headset that improves focusing.

 

Here is the crunch. I'm almost sure that if people want to fly ORBX quality scenery in VR, they are going to need either an SLI rig or a preferably overclocked 1080. The reason is that the image quality is just barely acceptable on FlyInside max resolution (3840 res). Any graphics card lower than those specs would be fine for default scenery without adding a lot of shadows etc but not Orbx scenery.

 

On a water cooled 1080, I'm finding that the Rift can lock to 90fps pretty much everywhere and on full P3D GPU settings (not the CPU settings) including most shadows.

 

You have to split your thinking between CPU and GPU limits. In VR they are largely separate problems.

 

On my overclocked i6700k I have had to drop from 35 internal limit to 25 internal limit to keep the same CPU settings in P3D (traffic etc). This is exactly what Dan said would happen. Flyinside chops off 20% or so in CPU limited simulator frames.

 

BUT.

 

Since the headset framerate is locked on 90 (GPU), head panning is so smooth with no stuttering or juddering, that it doesn't matter if the simulator is internally locked at only 25.

 

All the eye strain I used to get on flat screen, was because I was focusing on a flat image close to my head that stutters away on a low GPU frame rate as well as low CPU framerate with all sorts of monitor refresh dramas and TrackIR dramas that go along with a flatscreen.

 

In the Rift, I'm finding that focusing on infinity is much more relaxing for my eyes, my distance vision is improving in the real world, and because the flyinside GPU frames are locked at 90 on my 1080 rig, there is virtually no eye strain.

 

The other really good thing is that since we don't need Vsync, there is no input lag problem, and locking the sim internally at 25fps is actually very smooth and responsive (for the purposes of general aviation). At 25fps internal lock, the CPU can keep up better with the work load and you can start adding more CPU intensive stuff like traffic.

 

Best of luck with setting up VR. Honestly, if you want ORBX and visuals similar to how you had it on a monitor (but with just barely acceptable resolution clarity) an SLI rig or 1080 preferably overclocked rig is needed so that you can enable the flyinside 4xoversampling and lock to 90fps headset frames.

 

NOTE: the flyinside "import panels" feature can have a seriously bad impact on frame rates. I only use the built in simulator panels (kneeboard etc). Importing panels is too much load on frame rates unless you are flying in default scenery or on lower upscaling resolutions.

 

 

Actually, big update here..

 

The short of it.. the Rift IS sharper, enough so it warrants dedicating the Rift for the Flight Rig and keeping the Vive in the living room for now, with the possibility of selling the Vive later if the controllers + sensor coming this fall equate to what the Vive currently has going on (and you can play Steam VR with the Rift etc)..

 

I'm not sure why, but it just truly is.. right away on the default flight sitting in the jet, i noticed sharpness in the buildings on the left that wasnt there before.. the flyinside menus were easy to read now.. and i'm still one notch down from max res in the flyinside settings.

 

The ground objects were sharper..

 

Overall, i'd say maybe 10% sharper.. still blurrier than a 1080p screen, especially off in the distance, but much more "doable"/ " livable"..

 

I havent tried my orbx regions just yet and i turned off shadows and such.. still set on unlimitted in sim.. getting say 44-52 for the sim (i still have overclock off) and 80-90 for the flyinside value..

 

When i tried a limiter of 30.. it was worse.. i was hitting maybe 18 fps avg in the sim and 70-90 otherwise.. but that was with the vive.. ill have to try again and maybe 25 too

 

That brings me to the fact that the rift also seemed smoother right off that bat.. 

 

I still get the shudders when panning with my vision left to right (at times).. it really doesnt seem to matter if i lower settings in the sim either, though i havent gone crazy low just yet.. i need to turn the overclock back on and double check.

 

Hoping i really dont need a 1080, after having just got the 980ti .. we will see.

Awaiting the leap motion too.

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I still get the shudders when panning with my vision left to right (at times)

 

Yep, that is probably because of GPU issues if you have up-sampled too high (like the 3840 whatever setting is). It won't be the simulator.

 

To isolate simulator stutter from headset stutter, put your plane in a turn over the scenery you fly and keep your head still. If the terrain stutters during the turn, that is because the CPU is overloaded.

 

Unlimited frame rate is good if you are flying in a straight line most of the time. Problem with unlimited frame comes when you need to do a lot of turning, because then the frame rate will fluctuate wildly as the scenery moves.

 

Locking the frame rate internally is fine in VR. Don't be put off by locking at 25fps because in VR 25fps is still smooth since the underlying framerate of the headset is (should be) locked on 90fps.

 

25 frames a second is 1/25 of a second slices which is even good enough for aerobatics. In combat simulators, 25fps would be too low though.

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Yep, that is probably because of GPU issues if you have up-sampled too high (like the 3840 whatever setting is). It won't be the simulator.

 

To isolate simulator stutter from headset stutter, put your plane in a turn over the scenery you fly and keep your head still. If the terrain stutters during the turn, that is because the CPU is overloaded.

 

Unlimited frame rate is good if you are flying in a straight line most of the time. Problem with unlimited frame comes when you need to do a lot of turning, because then the frame rate will fluctuate wildly as the scenery moves.

 

Locking the frame rate internally is fine in VR. Don't be put off by locking at 25fps because in VR 25fps is still smooth since the underlying framerate of the headset is (should be) locked on 90fps.

 

25 frames a second is 1/25 of a second slices which is even good enough for aerobatics. In combat simulators, 25fps would be too low though.

 

Thanks, yeah ill definitely be trying a few variations to rule things out.. i'm pretty sure head held still there was very little jutter on the default flight area.. ill try some orbx tomorrow..

I also have to work out an annoying glitch where often I lose the calibration on my yoke, with or without using ch manager, or a random pull to the right, sometimes not visible in the control surfaces either.. still some testing to do there, most likely not related to anything vr.

 

 

Another question I had was regarding the bindings for functions.. i only have a keyboard/mouse + ch flight yoke and pedals (i do have 3 saitek panels, but i'm thinking i'll sell them in favor of the leap and maybe mouse worst case, staying completely in the sim from here on out (anyone disagree, or do many ditch the physical panels for full VR).

 

So on the bindings.. since i dont have a hotas or anything like that, what are most people binding to the ch yoke (and maybe i could use the x1 controller for some functions sitting on the left of it i guess, poor mans hotas).

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Interesting thread, thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

Now that VR headsets are appearing in stores here in the UK, I thought I'd go down the Google Cardboard route first to see if VR was going to be for me, it's only like £10 for a headset to get started.

 

The Google apps are basic but give you a good introduction.

 

I then installed Riftcat and the VRidge app on the phone to start using the Carboard like a Vive or Rift, albeit with the problems you'd expect streaming the video image over wireless. It's not practical as a full time solution, but it does give you an insight into what a Vive or Rift will be like without shelling out £800

 

I managed to get Prepar3d working and......I just don't know if VR is going to improve the experience of Prepar3d as the technology currently stands, for me anyway.

 

I agree with the statement above that it's only really for GA flying. I went over to GCN airstrip and flew around the canyon for a bit. I had to switch to cockpitless straight ahead view as the cockpit was stopping me from being able to focus on the scenery outside, everything was double vision.

 

It's very impressive, the lenses scale everything up so that you really do feel like you're flying amongst enormous towering mountains, but I personally don't think it's worth the investment for me for flight simming.

 

Riftcat have some bundled "games", one is a simulation of driting along a river in a boat surrounded by huge cliff faces which is breathtaking and really shows off what VR can achieve.

 

I personally just can't get over the seemingly huge drop in resolution in Prepar3d.

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Yep, that is probably because of GPU issues if you have up-sampled too high (like the 3840 whatever setting is). It won't be the simulator.

 

About to sell my old card/get the 1080, or at least get a 1080 for comparable testing.

 

Curious which exact 1080 you have.. or what 1080 others have?

 

My current debate is which of these to get:

 

EVGA 08G-P4-6286-KR FTW ACX 3.0 ($679, core 1721, boost 1860) vs 08G-P4-6183-KR SC ACX 3.0 $649 core 1708, boost 1847)

 

There is also the lower clocked 08G-P4-6284-KR (1607, 1733) middle of the line model, which on this site with 15% can make it $600 instead of $679 like the other.

 

 

 

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Curious which exact 1080 you have.. or what 1080 others have?

 

Yeah if you want 4K resolution upsampling in Flyinside to get bare minimum acceptable resolution for Orbx sceneries, a 1080 or SLI 980ti would be the way to go. (EDIT: the GTX970 minimum spec is for very basic sceneries flying a simple pattern at an FSX default airport).

 

I made the decision to go VR and went straight to the Gigabyte 1080 waterforce. On a i6700k OC47 rig that enables me to fly over dense cities at 25 sim frames and locked solid 90fps VR frames.

 

At 4K upsampled, the 1080 will be working near 100% most of the time but watercooled it sits at a low and stable 54degsC overclocked to 2GHZ. Can set most of the GPU heavy settings back to how I had it on flat panel including most of the useful shadows. No stuttering in VR smooth as. Much smoother than flat panel and incomparably better than trackIR.

 

I don't think watercooling is necessary though. Aircooled temps might be a bit higher but shouldn't be a problem. Main problem for me was that aircooled would pump too much heat into my case for the situation I am in (not much ventilation around the case).

 

The main hardware weak link in the chain is the CPU main sim job which can mean frames down to 25fps in the sim but without vsync/trackir issues 25fps is still really nice for most types of GA flying when the headset is pumping out 90fps. However I am running 20% road traffic and good amounts of air traffic and with those turned down 30fps would be normal. Flew over Melbourne city at night in the Rift. Wow! The city comes to life with the road traffic.

 

The main software weak link in the chain is Flyinside windows import for putting your flightplan and maps on the seat next to you in the plane. That feature is still in beta (edit: in my opinion). It works but it has lots of issues in flyinside 1.6. I can only set my radios with a detailed PDF flightplan at the beginning of the flight. Then I turn off the PDF window import and use the internal sim panels like the kneeboard.

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Just an update on things here.

 

Few changes.. i'm now back to my overclock at 4.4ghz (avg 7-10 fps increase with that)..

Still on the 980ti, though the 1080 ftw arrives later this week.

 

I did some local region testing (western pa) which is just basically GEX + vector + utx + rex + as16.. very very smooth.. i can pan my head around, no studders or judders.. scenery is mostly smooth as can be, cept a minor hickup as you get closer to landing at some local low res, default airports.

 

I also found, in my case, maybe since i wear glasses.. if i push the goggles off of my face slightly, i can reduce the screen door effect or jaggy effect quite a bit, making distant textures sharper. (rift).. so it seems ill probably make some padding in there to help with that.

 

Now for the issues.. back to PNW Orbx FTX testing.. this still on medium high settings.. i've found only a slight difference in performance as far as the goggles go, by lowering settings in the sim itself.. so i left things like shadows turned on and water at max.  Changing this hasnt helped much.

 

Take case example KORS takeoff in carenado bonanza v35.. frame rate reads say 45/95 sitting there, look around all seems fine.. start to take off, look/pan around, studder/judder city.. framerate still reading 39-47/90-95 (unlimited in sim/flyinsidefsx).. 

 

I really should find an app to monitor both cpu/gpu.. maybe next time ill test with gpuz at least, see what the avg gpu % is here. 

 

You would think with decently high frame rates there would be no judder, but maybe its a bottleneck in the cpu, i forget which.. holding head steady ground is smooth.  I'm willing to bet its because i set the flyinside supersample res to 3840x2374 and if i lower that a bit it may smooth out.. of course the 1080 might cure everything too.

 

I also fixed the ch yoke yanking to the right issue.. just had to set the mins and max'es in fsuipc, so far so good.

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 I'm willing to bet its because i set the flyinside supersample res to 3840x2374

 

Yeah, that res will be working your 980ti really hard probably too hard to keep it judder free. The 1080 is in theory only what 30% faster? but in reality for VR it makes more difference than that.

 

Once you get your 1080, try locking the sim on 30fps and leaving it there. I even locked it at 25fps and been happy with the smoothness even when the aircraft is turning, because the async time warp still works (huge difference between 90fps in headset and 25fps in the sim). I don't understand how, but it does.

 

So the upside is that VR uses a 1080's full capacity and the depiction is smooth. The downside is that the resolution is on the very lower limit of acceptability on 4K supersampling but good enough on ORBX for the fact that you are seeing the world in 1:1 scale no matter where you look.

 

The downside is that the 4W limit of USB 3.0 means that the luminance of any headset in the forseeable future is going to be limited unless they change the power source driving the displays. On a TV flatscreen the luminance can sometimes mimic day time brightness. In VR, you always have to imagine that you are wearing pretty strong sunglasses (which you do in the real world anyway). I have all the brightness /darkness settings turned up in flyinside, saturation left on medium setting. It is ok, but nothing in VR really shines bright like in the real world. The screen power input is just too low to mimic real world brightness unless they build in a battery in the headset or develop a new VR connector standard that can supply more power.

 

Despite the drawbacks, I'm sticking with VR. It's not just that depiction is 3D, but that the world scale is 1:1 as it appears to your brain no matter where you look.

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Wait for my detailed VR experiences thread once the next release is out.  I am heavily beta testing it with tons of addons and what not.

 

I do recommend SLI for VR due to VR-SLI is in the latest public release.  My 980s in SLI really do help in VR-SLI.  It is the way each eye is getting one video card so it helps in VR async FPS at VR 4K resolution.

 

I will post plenty of config pictures and what not

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