Sign in to follow this  
theskyisthelimit

P3D upgrade CPU from 4930k 4.4 OC'd hex core to 6700k 4.2 turbo or wait for 7700k kaby lake?

Recommended Posts

My i7-4930k cpu may be dying.. its overclocked from 3.4 to 4.4 and has been forever.. i used to hit 70C for a max P3D temperature.. now im at 85C.. 

That said, i've been eyeing a replacement, preferably something i wont need to overclock at at least get the same performance.  I've compared HT on and off with my cpu and never saw a big change, so HT is on as well.  This PC is also a rendering/gaming/VR machine (oculus rift, flyinside).. it has the 1080 ftw, upgraded from a 980ti (so far no real P3D change in performance though).

 

For comparibles passmark cpumark wise:

i7-4930k 4.4ghz 15,800

i7-6700k 4.0ghz/4.2 turbo 10,900 

i7-6830k 3.6/3.8 14,091

i7-7700k 4.2-4.5k turbo?  ??

 

If I were to base it purely on tubo single/core speed, i'd have to say grab a 6700 now or maybe wait on Kaby lake?  I'm not convinced clock speed is king.. i've seen some on here saying they saw a perceivable difference in texture loading and smoothness, having those extra cores

 

Wondering if anyone ever went from a 4930k or other hex core to a faster core speed CPU and noted the change if any.. holding all settings etc the same in both tests?  I'd be real curious 

 

Thanks in advance

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

The chief advantage to going to the 6700K is you get DDR4 RAM, the disadvantage is you have to buy a mobo and memory.

 

I went from a 4790K to the 6700K for the advantage.  It runs cool at 4.7GHz on liquid and RAM is 3.3GHz, it's not all on the CPU since memory is a key player as well.

Share this post


Link to post

The chief advantage to going to the 6700K is you get DDR4 RAM, the disadvantage is you have to buy a mobo and memory.

 

I went from a 4790K to the 6700K for the advantage.  It runs cool at 4.7GHz on liquid and RAM is 3.3GHz, it's not all on the CPU since memory is a key player as well.

Yeah i've tested going even from 1600mhz to 2400mhz on my dd3, I saw a slight boost.. i forget exactly, maybe 3-4 fps difference.

 

Yours was a one to one changeover if you ignore the ram.. i guess the only way to tell how a hex to quad changeover would be, would be to try it.  Price for a changeover might be $500 right now.  Strangely my old board is fetching good coin used though.

 

Which motherboard/ram combo did you end up buying to achieve that ram speed?  I've considered the z710-A or the tuf sabertooth.. appears the -A has less usb but better overclock on the RAM portion.  I probably wouldnt overclock this time around, the CPU, but maybe 4.2-4.3 on air cooling on my existing NH-U14S which i think works.

 

My luck i make the change and in 2 months the 7700 comes out and clocks in much better :D  (when the 6700k came out it was $419, its now $330 a year later, i guess i'd expect the 7700k to ring in around $430 to start, maybe, if it were true, making this change about $100-$120 more to wait, time will tell).

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't expect much improvement in terms of IPC from Skylake to Kaby. It sounds like Intel has merely optimized the layout and pathways of some of the circuitry and increased the stock clock speeds.

 

Also, I'd hate to dissuade you from happily upgrading hardware (one of my favorite activities) but that rise in temps you're experiencing with your 4930k could be due to something fairly pedestrian. You may have some dust build up on or around the heatsink or radiator, your thermal paste could have hardened and no longer be transferring heat efficiently, etc. If you want to upgrade, enjoy, but if you don't think you should have to or don't truly feel like you have the money, then there may be some good news in store for you.

 

Now, on the other hand, if you were finding that it increasingly takes more and more voltage to be stable at the same clock speed, that would be a much greater indicator that the chip has degraded...

Share this post


Link to post

 

 


Which motherboard/ram combo did you end up buying to achieve that ram speed?

 

ASRock Z170 OC Formula and G.Skill TridentZ RAM.  Liquid cooler is the Corsair H115i.  The RAM will clock stock to 3400 MHz, I just haven't pushed it after settling in on my current configuration.

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't expect much improvement in terms of IPC from Skylake to Kaby. It sounds like Intel has merely optimized the layout and pathways of some of the circuitry and increased the stock clock speeds.

 

Also, I'd hate to dissuade you from happily upgrading hardware (one of my favorite activities) but that rise in temps you're experiencing with your 4930k could be due to something fairly pedestrian. You may have some dust build up on or around the heatsink or radiator, your thermal paste could have hardened and no longer be transferring heat efficiently, etc. If you want to upgrade, enjoy, but if you don't think you should have to or don't truly feel like you have the money, then there may be some good news in store for you.

 

Now, on the other hand, if you were finding that it increasingly takes more and more voltage to be stable at the same clock speed, that would be a much greater indicator that the chip has degraded...

 

I did some checking and it sounds like 2-3% might be the benefit of Kaby, so i guess not worth waiting either.  I think the increase in temp might have been simply from having to increase my vcore to 1.25 from 1.22, something i totally forgot or dust yeah :)  The only reason i did increase the voltage was due to the fact if i tried to sleep the board, it would often not work or just reset.. found that if i increased the vcore slightly (also due to ram being 2400mhz), this seemed to help (so far).

 

I'm still leaning towards the upgrade, mostly for fun.. and net cost it might not be that much at all after digging further.

ASRock Z170 OC Formula and G.Skill TridentZ RAM.  Liquid cooler is the Corsair H115i.  The RAM will clock stock to 3400 MHz, I just haven't pushed it after settling in on my current configuration.

 

i just picked up these from newegg.. plus the asus z170-a .. hopefully i can achieve similar http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231929

Share this post


Link to post

So being the crazy upgrader and having brainstormed further, i've decided the following...

 

I'm going to lower my i7-4930k hex to 4.2 ghz and redo some of my baselines.. take some notes.. 

 

Then... i've ordered the following:

 

i7-6700k

NH-14D (instead of my other noctua  NH-U14S cooler, this one should keep temps even better).  Saw reviews of some hitting 4.6 or 4.7ghz and 1.35 volts on this 14D with load of 60C..

 

Asus z170-A motherboard

Gskill Trident Z 16GB (16 cas 1.35v) 3200mhz (hoping i can hit 1.35v and 3200 on the board)

 

Ill do the same 4.2ghz (turbo) tests and see how the fps match up.  Then ill try for a modest overclock for starters and if i can be stable at 1.35v / 75C or less then ill go for that as well.  Hopefully no delidding will be needed and the thermal paste that comes with the NH-14D is sufficient.

 

This should be a good rig for a few years to come, without waiting.

Share this post


Link to post

 

 


So being the crazy upgrader and having brainstormed further, i've decided the following...

 

Sounds like a plan. Bought a 6700K a week ago and finally finished up my OC yesterday at 4.7Ghz @ 1.426v. High 60s / low 70s C under load with an ambient temp of 25-26*C. I bought a Corsair H55 quiet edition a while ago and threw away the stock fan and replaced it with two Cougars in push-pull. Works pretty well.

Share this post


Link to post

Sounds like a plan. Bought a 6700K a week ago and finally finished up my OC yesterday at 4.7Ghz @ 1.426v. High 60s / low 70s C under load with an ambient temp of 25-26*C. I bought a Corsair H55 quiet edition a while ago and threw away the stock fan and replaced it with two Cougars in push-pull. Works pretty well.

What GPU are you pairing with that.. on air etc?  Are you worried about the volts being 1.426?  Temps sound good.. but i've always read, for longevity, 1.35v / 75C ideally max.. maybe not, i dunno?

Share this post


Link to post

The Asus Z170-A marks everything above 1.4V as "yellow", which in my mind should be ok with the right cooling. But I personally do not cross the 1.4V.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Dan,

 

noticed you previously  had the same cpu   ( 4790K) and gpu  , 980TI as i have right now ,  i m  thinking  about upgrading to a 6700K too, is there any improvement with the 6700k ,

Share this post


Link to post

Still keeping the trigger pulled on the 6700k,

 

but in digging more i found that the stock core speed of the i7-7700 is likely to be 4.2 and the turbo 4.5 based on some leaks.. this may translate into an overclock something in the range of 5.0-5.2 I would suspect.. whereas with the 6700k its sounds as if ill be looking at about 4.6 to 4.7 comfortably.. given past benchmarking i think this comes in around 4fps better with the 7700k.. but still early to tell.  Read also that possibly current z170 boards like the asus z170-a might work with the new chip.

 

In the meantime, either way.. i'm looking into trying water cooling again.. so i'm giving this watercooler a try.. with my issues of overheating gpu at 83C, combined with a hot CPU, it seems that it might be a good idea to water cool at least one of the two.. i assumed it was easier to outfit the cpu with a water cooler than the 1080 card.

 

Giving this guy a try (Corsair Hydro Series H100i v2).. hoping i dont get a bad one with leaks.. back in the day i tried a 100 series corsair.. didnt work as well as air, but i'm hoping i can put the radiator on the outside of the case.. there by removing the heat source from the pc and leaving only the video card as needing cooled.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Dan,

 

noticed you previously  had the same cpu   ( 4790K) and gpu  , 980TI as i have right now ,  i m  thinking  about upgrading to a 6700K too, is there any improvement with the 6700k ,

My 4790K was air cooled and only OC to 4.4 GHz so the upgrade to 6700K and DDR4 made a measurable difference with P3D. Because I wanted liquid cooling, I bought a new case and all that goes with it and I have both the 4790K and 6700K sitting side by side now.  Navigraph Charts and PFPX display on the older rig while flying on my 6700K. This means I can visit the forums and browse wikipedia during boring stages of flight.

Share this post


Link to post

My 4790K was air cooled and only OC to 4.4 GHz so the upgrade to 6700K and DDR4 made a measurable difference with P3D. Because I wanted liquid cooling, I bought a new case and all that goes with it and I have both the 4790K and 6700K sitting side by side now. Navigraph Charts and PFPX display on the older rig while flying on my 6700K. This means I can visit the forums and browse wikipedia during boring stages of flight.

Which cooler n case did u end up with been looking at the thermaltake v31 n v51 but both may have issues with the 240mm radiator on top. Seems the ram might make the top not possible with the v31 and top with v51 may mean losing the front cages but I doubt it. Leaning towards getting the v51 since my old thermaltake won't fit

Share this post


Link to post

Which cooler n case did u end up with been looking at the thermaltake v31 n v51 but both may have issues with the 240mm radiator on top. Seems the ram might make the top not possible with the v31 and top with v51 may mean losing the front cages

Corsair Obsidian 450D, I had room for a 280mm cooler by loosing only the top drive slot.  I figured a Corsair case should work with the corsair cooler and worked out after a minor effort. My M-Disc optical fit in the second slot no problem. The case is actually quieter than the older Antec that houses my 4790K.

Share this post


Link to post

Corsair Obsidian 450D, I had room for a 280mm cooler by loosing only the top drive slot.  I figured a Corsair case should work with the corsair cooler and worked out after a minor effort. My M-Disc optical fit in the second slot no problem. The case is actually quieter than the older Antec that houses my 4790K.

The 450d looks similar to the v51. I guess with more options. Might be a better fit for the 240mm, though smaller overall size.  I think i may still opt for the v51.  My old case is the   Thermaltake VA8000BWS which cant really take a top radiator.

Share this post


Link to post

What GPU are you pairing with that.. on air etc?  Are you worried about the volts being 1.426?  Temps sound good.. but i've always read, for longevity, 1.35v / 75C ideally max.. maybe not, i dunno?

 

I have two 780 Ti superclocks in SLI. I can't overstate this enough but I am not happy with how P3D scales SLI nowadays. If it weren't for some other games and the current, low used price of a 780Ti (a great card in my opinion), I'd sell the second one. It seemingly provides very little benefit. Sorry, off topic...

 

I think 1.426v is fine. Intel's recommended max is 1.45v which you have to assume is still a conservative figure. When not gaming or flightsimming (usually no more than several hours per week), the chip is kept at its stock clocks and voltages.

 

 

Still keeping the trigger pulled on the 6700k,

 

but in digging more i found that the stock core speed of the i7-7700 is likely to be 4.2 and the turbo 4.5 based on some leaks.. this may translate into an overclock something in the range of 5.0-5.2 I would suspect.. whereas with the 6700k its sounds as if ill be looking at about 4.6 to 4.7 comfortably.. given past benchmarking i think this comes in around 4fps better with the 7700k.. but still early to tell.  Read also that possibly current z170 boards like the asus z170-a might work with the new chip.

 

I wouldn't assume that just because Intel is raising the stock clocks on the 7700k that it will be capable of a proportional overclock. I think in essence what they're doing is applying 40-50% of the typical overclock before the chip leaves the factory... if that makes sense. I'm not aware that they've done anything to the chip that would allow it to go over 5Ghz, especially under ideal temps and voltages. I would keep an eye on "techier" forums than AVSIM and see what some of the reports are. But I would not let your expectations go bonkers...

Share this post


Link to post

7700k vs 6700k Its more like a refresh like Sandybrige 2600k to 2700k, Haswell 4770k to 4790k.

the diff to a Golden chip nothing but they have Done a lot tweaking .

A normal 6700k today not god not bad at 4.6ghz similar 7700k chip do 4.8 , Golden ones 5.0-5.1 as today, wait and see ....

Share this post


Link to post

7700k vs 6700k Its more like a refresh like Sandybrige 2600k to 2700k, Haswell 4770k to 4790k.

the diff to a Golden chip nothing but they have Done a lot tweaking .

A normal 6700k today not god not bad at 4.6ghz similar 7700k chip do 4.8 , Golden ones 5.0-5.1 as today, wait and see ....

 

That makes sense and will probably be the case.. we shall see soon.

 

I made the final choices on my decision here.. so its

 

i7-6700k

asus 170-a

h100i v2 240mm water cool

Case:  v51 thermaltake

ram: CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 Vengeance LPX 16GB 1.35v 16cas

 

Parts arriving thursday 

 

Ill be doing the baseline comparisons between i7-4930k at 4.2ghz and this arrangement at 4.2ghz (and beyond once i overclock it).. I may even try the older DDR3 ram instead of DDR4 to keep the playing field even to see how it stacks up.

Share this post


Link to post

 

 


Ill be doing the baseline comparisons between i7-4930k at 4.2ghz and this arrangement at 4.2ghz (and beyond once i overclock it).. I may even try the older DDR3 ram instead of DDR4 to keep the playing field even to see how it stacks up.

 

Not bad at all. I wish you had given us a heads-up on that RAM, though (we're your upgrade support group!). The stuff I ordered a week ago from newegg.com was the same speed but CAS14. Also, I could be misinterpreting the last part of your statement but you can't use DDR3 with a Skylake/Z170 chip.

Share this post


Link to post

Not bad at all. I wish you had given us a heads-up on that RAM, though (we're your upgrade support group!). The stuff I ordered a week ago from newegg.com was the same speed but CAS14. Also, I could be misinterpreting the last part of your statement but you can't use DDR3 with a Skylake/Z170 chip.

Thanks, well the ram I just ordered I can always cancel, which model was it that was 14 cas I guess 14 from 16 might be perceiveable? Not sure why I thought I could test with ddr3, disregard that brainfart:)

Share this post


Link to post

You should try to use the motherboard recommended memory list..., they usually have many choices and this ensures compatibility with the chip set.

Share this post


Link to post

I have very brief test results..

 

my fsmark07 baseline paused value has gone up to around 35 fps from 32.. this at stock levels and stock levels on the ram too (stiill the cas 16 for now).. so its 4.2 turbo and 2133.. (ill later overclock)..

 

i'm rather pleased.. though the cpu temps still reached 64 on one core and 57 for lowest on another.. and i was still hoping to push to 4.6-4.7 later on.. not sure if this is due to the way i have the h100i v2 mounted or not.. i went by instructions.. its on top of the v51 case.. set to intake mode.. so radiator on the roof of the inside of the case.. fans under that but set to pull air downward..  it was reading 29C when i first turned it on.. which might have been a few degrees above a warm room temp.  Example, right now near idle, i have temps 23 24, 21, 22.. i dont think ill worry about that one core.. no interest in delidding this go round either

 

 

At any rate, my gpu didnt exceed 67C this time on the fsmark07 quick test i did.. maybe due to new rig or new cooling arrangement.. all these temps so far are with the case side off however.

Share this post


Link to post

I forgot to include the tests..

 

For reference and set both to same clock speed for apples to apples as close as possible (both the OS and P3D drives are SSD samsung evo 1tb drives)..

 

fsmark07 with high settings, clouds, reflections etc (ill provide these later)... 120 sec test

 

i7-4930k at 4.2ghz overclocked on air, ddr3 2400 overclocked ram + 1080 ftw

24.067 avg, 32 fps paused at start, 83C gpu temp, cpu max 85C

 

i7-6700k at 4.2 turbo (not overclocked) on h100i v2 water cool, ddr4 cas16 at 2133 + 1080 ftw

32.03 avg, 35 fps paused at start (wow), 67C gpu temp, cpu max 64C on one core, 57 on others (intake/pull air from top down on cpu).

 

Performance Test Passmark:

 

CPUMARK:

i7-4930k at 4.2 ghz overclock with 2400 ram (3056 memorymark 3D-12488):  12,775

i7-6700k at 4.2 ghz turbo with 2133 cas 16:  11,147

 

PASSMARK:

i7-4930k at 4.2 ghz overclock with 2400 ram:   5546

i7-6700k at 4.2 ghz turbo with 2133 cas 16 (3019 memorymark, 3D-15230):   5822

Might be a glitch or just better throughput on the new board, but the performance test 3D rating jumped a bit.  

 

3DMARK FireStrike Ultra

i7-4930k at 4.2 ghz overclock with 2400 ram:  5473

i7-6700k at 4.2 ghz turbo with 2133 cas 16: 5478

 

 

 

Side note. i found these cas15 ram sticks from gskill.. fairly cheap at $89.99, same price as the corsairs.. most cas15 3200's seem to go for $180 or higher.. so ill give these a try and replace the vengeance cas16.

Share this post


Link to post

Only on the mems you get 8-10% higher Fps in your 07 test, the G-Skill cas15 you linked to is very good.

 

3200mhz c15 have the best price/performance ratio, but i prefer 3600 C15 with thigter timings C13-14

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this