ProATC X - New Version

[Guest]

Thanks for the detailed post, Jarkko! Much appreciated. Looking at the 'cheat' in a different way is indeed a good way of looking at things. I will give your workflow a try next time, including the secondary plan. Now it won't feel as cheating anymore but as a valid thing to do.

 

Concerning the text: I have done a clean install of ProATC on a fresh Windows 10 so it's not the update that messed things up.

The text onscreen does work but it shows a lot of things ATC isn't actually saying (audio). It is as if the ATC procedures have changed (audio) but they forgot to change the shown text.

For instance in this new version quite a few hands off (to for instance tower or approach) are called out later than in the previous version but still shown at the time the previous version would call them. For instance the tower frequency is now called out when you are near the take off runway but it is still shown in the text you see when you start to taxi, which was the time you would also hear it in audio in the previous version. So there are quite a few things shown in the text which aren't actually said yet.

Again, it is as if they forgot to change the timing of the onscreen text (which is, I suppose, a seperate system: you never see an exact transcription of what is being said). The text still follows the old procedures every now and then.

 

That was quite a long explanation but sometimes it is hard to explain myself in English.

[tf51d 284]

The one change I wish they made, was to redesign the menu system so the options would be the same command key no matter what phase of flight was. Especially for initial contact and confirmations. Without that PATC won't interface with MCE, which would give us voice controlled ATC like can be done with default, PFE/3, and RC4.

[Jarkko 59]

For instance the tower frequency is now called out when you are near the take off runway but it is still shown in the text you see when you start to taxi, which was the time you would also hear it in audio in the previous version. So there are quite a few things shown in the text which aren't actually said yet.

 

The original voice sets are still in use, and ProATC is outgrowing the voice sets. The developer stated, that after this release version has gone through service pack runs, the next step is to start work on next generation voice sets.

 

As for the voice vs text timing, I must say that I haven't caught that before (which as a tester, I should have noticed). I will check this on my next flight. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

The one change I wish they made, was to redesign the menu system so the options would be the same command key no matter what phase of flight was. Especially for initial contact and confirmations. Without that PATC won't interface with MCE, which would give us voice controlled ATC like can be done with default, PFE/3, and RC4.

 

Don't quote me on this, but the "menu system" should be more logical now. I'm not talking about the inflight menu system that you click with your mouse or use by numbers. I mean the shortcuts that you use without opening the inflight menu. One of the shortcuts should now always be "Confirm instructions/check-in/request clearance" and one should be "say again" and so on.

 

I don't remember exactly how it's done now (as I don't use the shortcut system without opening the inflight menu). All I know that the shortcut system was overhauled during development. 

[tf51d 284]

Thanks Jarkko, if that's true maybe FS++ can get MCE to interface with PATC after all.

[Jarkko 59]

Thanks Jarkko, if that's true maybe FS++ can get MCE to interface with PATC after all.

 

I will have to ask around on the ProATC support forum for help on this. It should be more logical for a human, but will it be logical enough for automation, it will remain to be seen.

[Farlis 2,317]

The text onscreen does work but it shows a lot of things ATC isn't actually saying (audio)

 

Indeed. Another example is that the voice ATC is giving you incomplete information at times, whereas the text gives the missing parts. That happened to me at departure clearence where the Airport had multiple SID's with one name and a different letter at the end. The text gave the complete name of the SID but the voice missed the designator letter. As long as this isn't fixed I can't risk switching off the text.

[spesimen 135]

 

As for the voice vs text timing, I must say that I haven't caught that before (which as a tester, I should have noticed). I will check this on my next flight. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

 

another issue (present in older versions as well) is that the text incorrectly displays altitudes. if the controller assigns a flight level the text will show a normal altitude, and vice versa, if you are assigned 16,000 the text will show FL160.

the audio is always correct in this case,just the text message is flipped.

 

cheers

-andy crosby

[tf51d 284]

Indeed. Another example is that the voice ATC is giving you incomplete information at times, whereas the text gives the missing parts. That happened to me at departure clearence where the Airport had multiple SID's with one name and a different letter at the end. The text gave the complete name of the SID but the voice missed the designator letter. As long as this isn't fixed I can't risk switching off the text.

You can always verify your procedure clearance with the Flight Information menu option

[Glynn 405]

I will have to ask around on the ProATC support forum for help on this. It should be more logical for a human, but will it be logical enough for automation, it will remain to be seen.

 

Jarkko, the problem I am having interfacing my voice software (vac) is that ProATC will only accept keys sent by the voice program if the menu is open on the screen except for confirming actions which seem to be accepted when the green text bar is showing.

The key presses also move around in the menu which makes it impossible to fully control ProATC by voice.

Default ATC also had the same problem whereas RC and PFE/PF3 have a predictable numbering system making it very easy to create voice scripts..

 

Other than that the ProATC is working well in the latest version, you can tell that a lot of work has gone into this release.

[Jarkko 59]

Did you know that you don't have to open the menu to confirm instructions or a checklist item nor for "repeat last instruction"?

 

Shortcut 2 to confirm. If there is nothing to confirm nothing happens.

 

Shortcut 3 for "Say gain".

 

This is what was told to me (by the developer) during the testing of the latest version. Based on this, some level of interaction should be available without opening the inflight menu.

 

Like mentioned, I don't use this on my flights so I don't know the correct shortcut for check-in for example.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Deleted

 

 

[Guest]

FWIW Here's what I do with the Airbus:

 

I gave your workflow a try this evening and it works like a charm! So thanks again for your detailed answer! Much appreciated.

 

Concerning the differences between speech and text: I decided to ignore the text. Seems to me that the speech is spot on (for the new way of doing things) and it is best to ignore everything the text shows, specially the extra info that shouldn't be there: in the end, so I found out, the speech will tell you everything you need to know at the appropriate time.

 

All in all I am a lot happier with ProATC than I was yesterday.

 

 

Like mentioned, I don't use this on my flights so I don't know the correct shortcut for check-in for example.

 

The shortcut for Check in is 1 but this will always open the menu after which you have to select Check in (which is 1 once more). There is no way to check in without the menu like you can acknowledge instructions (2) or Say again (3).

 

When you are already checked in pressing 1 opens the menu and then option 1 is Say again (slightly confusing because without the menu Say again is 3: Say again can also be 2 in the menu...). But once you get used to it, it all works fine.

 

I quite like the unobstrusive (is that the right word?) menu system: too many addons require way to big menu's onscreen all the time. Would be great though if 1 would be come the standard check in key and if there was another key to open the menu if you need to. That way you could fly and entire flight without ever seeing a menu.

[Jarkko 59]

I gave your workflow a try this evening and it works like a charm!

 

Very good to hear

 

 

 

Would be great though if 1 would be come the standard check in key and if there was another key to open the menu if you need to. That way you could fly and entire flight without ever seeing a menu.

 

I have to agree. Once the dust has settled from the release (first service pack out), I will try pitch the "cleaner menu" modification again. It was talked about for latest release, but didn't make the cut in full force (some parts were implemented). No promises that it will be modified though. Things like these are not in my hands.

[Nemo 1,305]

The shortcut for Check in is 1 but this will always open the menu after which you have to select Check in (which is 1 once more). There is no way to check in without the menu like you can acknowledge instructions (2) or Say again (3).

 

When you are already checked in pressing 1 opens the menu and then option 1 is Say again (slightly confusing because without the menu Say again is 3: Say again can also be 2 in the menu...). But once you get used to it, it all works fine.

 

It is possible to assign 0 (zero) as shortcut for opening the menu, then "1" should be available for "check-in" without opening menu. Have not yet tested as co-pilot handles radios in my case.

[Glynn 405]

Today I flew LIPZ-LKPR in the NGX using voice (VAC) http://www.dwvac.com/ to control ProATC and it all worked fine, The menu still needs to be open for some keys to be accepted from the voice software but confirming requests works without the menu being open as Jarkko stated.

Great stuff