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Antioch

New Computer

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Hi to all

 

A most interesting forum. I wish I had come here earlier. I have been reading through recent threads of new builds and would like to have your feedback on the below.

Although I have FS2002, 2004 and the standard 1st issue FSX, I only use it for flying small light aircraft.  I also have a few add-ons, of UK landscape and airports – no additional planes. Re FSX I might take a closer look at the Steam version.

 

The discussions re air cool against liquid cooling in particular.

I am not building the computer myself and the options for cooling offered by the builder are not vast.

For me, I am looking for the quietest as possible with some control over fan speed and temp, which I do not have at the moment. I take manufacturers noise figures with a pinch of salt and where possible I have looked for ‘bench tested’ equipment.

 

Proposed build –

CASE- Corsair Carbide 200R

PSU-Intel i5 6600

MB- Asus H110M-R

RAM- 16GB HyperX Fury

GPU- Nvidia Geforce GTX 1060 – at this time the Zotac single fan

HDD- 500GB Sata-III 3.5

PSU- Corsair 450W VS Series

COOLER- Corsair H80i V2[Artic MX4] [Noise rated 24-57]– with ‘Link’ control

Air cooler choices are – Standard Intel; Dragonfly 3; Frostflow 100; CoolMaster Hyper 212X; Noctua NH-U14S[£20 cheaper than the h80i] [not certain how speed/noise control is maintained with this one] Noise rated 23-40db

OS- WIN7 whilst still available until MS remove its availability to computer builders very shortly.

 

My spend is at its limit of £900 [$1100]

 

Having read through threads, for my system and use I am leaning towards the Noctua.

 

Partitions – this service is offered free – it would be convenient to have all the FS stoftware on one partition, but how much? I do little office work these days – little email, no photography or design stuff.  Perhaps 200GB for FS and any add-ons?

My current HDD is 500GB of which 400GB is free. Partitions can be split in units of 10GB.

 

Thank you - sorry re length of post

 

Antioch

 

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COOLER- Corsair H80i V2[Artic MX4] [Noise rated 24-57]– with ‘Link’ control

Air cooler choices are – Standard Intel; Dragonfly 3; Frostflow 100; CoolMaster Hyper 212X; Noctua NH-U14S[£20 cheaper than the h80i] [not certain how speed/noise control is maintained with this one] Noise rated 23-40db

 

 

 

The Noctua NH-U14S is an excellent cooler. Very quiet and cools well for a single tower design. In fact I recommended it to someone recently. 

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_u12s_u14s_review,11.html

 

Noctua is a company that has grown a name based soley on their quality product and after sales. I don't think we ever have tested one product that we didn't like. As such it should be no surprize that this is the same for the products as tested today. Noctua CPU coolers have a lot of capacity, we like that very much. The result as such is that the cooler becomes even more impressive when you start to overclock and then observe the sheer (low) noise levels.

 

 

 

 

Performance

Both coolers perform excellent within its range. The 120mm based NH-U12S simply is good. With higher overclocks and increased processor voltages however it becomes a little more "mainstream" in the heatpipe segment. Adding a 2nd fan will help, albeit we noticed only a little temperature decrease. The product comes standard with one fan though. So yes, the big winner in my eyes is the NH-U14S, I seriously like it. It doesn't have that huge dual-radiator design opposed to some of Noctua's other models like the D14. This one has a single radiator design with that sincerely cool NF-A15 fan, the combo kicks &@($*. The NH-U14S performs really well, even with Ivy Bridge at 4600 and 1.3 Volts for a heatpipe based cooler that performance is impressive.

 

Noise levels

...WOW!

Granted we have our motherboard PWM controlling the fans. But for both coolers combined with one or two fans the sound levels are just not an issue. With the lwo RPM fans both the NH-U12S and NH-U14S under normal operation are silent, even more silent then liquid cooling. I can write an entire paragraph about this fact, but let's just call it what it is and get it over with, the noise levels are darn good and thus extremely silent, even with two fans in push-pull configuration noise should not be an issue whatsoever.

 

 

not certain how speed/noise control is maintained with this one

 

It's a PMW fan. Pulse Width Modulation. Therefore the fan RPM can be controlled by your motherboard BIOS or Windows based software, or a fan controller. Same as with most fans.  CPU temp goes up, fan RPM goes up. 

 

Re case fans as opposed to CPU fan... again, PWM fans are common and can be controlled automatically by the BIOS/UEFI, Windows based software or fan controller. In addition, Asus boards can also control non PWM fans just as effectively. Not sure about other makes but probably the same.

 

Incidentally, I have the same NF-A15 fan on my NH-D15S. And I can tell you from first hand experience, it's ultra quiet.

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Many thanks for your reply.

I certainly follow your drift – I am having a similar train of thought – didn’t fancy the problem of leakage [despite possibly being overstated] – if a fan on a non liquid cooler starts squeaking, just whack a lump of axle grease on it. :smile:

However the noise in the link you posted were taken at a distance of 75cm – who sits that far away from the case sitting at their desk?  Most noise tests are done in the 30-40cm.

The case comes with two 120mm fans [3pin] – one at the front and one top back.  I think a roof fan might get in the way of the CPU fan? But the MB has two fan connections – one for CPU and one for case fan. Not sure yet what the builder will do with the second fan.

 

Would you consider the PSU sufficient? I don’t intend to add any hardware. The builders suggest 400 is enough?

 

Antioch

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I have to be honest here and say that I have never had a problem with fan noise when it comes to CPU coolers. My current CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO runs at full speed all of the time, and the Thermaltake Frio in my previous i5 2500k PC was super quiet aswell.

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However the noise in the link you posted were taken at a distance of 75cm – who sits that far away from the case sitting at their desk?  Most noise tests are done in the 30-40cm.

 

 

Antioch

 

 

Don't worry about noise from the cooler. I have the same fan on my cooler and as I said, it's ultra quiet. 

 

I have a fan curve set up courtesy of Asus FanXpert 3. While I type this it's barely spinning and pretty much silent. Just being playing BF4 and it spools up more but not noisy at all.

 

Noctua coolers are famous for lack of noise. Noctua fans are about the best in the business.

 

 

Would you consider the PSU sufficient? I don’t intend to add any hardware. The builders suggest 400 is enough?

 

 

It seems to be under powered. I would say 650 watt minimum.

 

Technically 400 watts may just about suffice, but it's close and leaves you no room for expansion. Also more likely that the PSU fan RPM will be higher.

 

Try one of the PSU calculators on the net.

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Hi again Martin

 

 

 


I have a fan curve set up courtesy of Asus FanXpert 3

 

I understand it is now called 'AI Suite II'.  May have to come here later - have to wait and see if the builder configures any software and to which connection point they use.

 

 

 


It seems to be under powered. I would say 650 watt minimum.

 

There you differ from others - I did a couple of those calculators - the best they came up with was about 340W. But I found it almost impossible to find the exact hardware listed. I will not be doing any OCing nor adding/upgraing hardware.The builder and posters in their forum recon 450W. Yes, it was pointed out re the PSU getting higher. May go for the 550W.

 

Thanks for the help.

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I understand it is now called 'AI Suite II'.  May have to come here later - have to wait and see if the builder configures any software and to which connection point they use.

 

 

 

It's actually Ai Suite 3 that's included with  most Asus motherboards. Within Ai Suite 3, you will find Fan Xpert 3. It's not included with all Asus boards.

 

The motherboard you specified above, the Asus H110M-R, is a super cheap motherboard, about as cheap as you can get. So don't expect advanced features. I understand it does include Ai Suite 3, so probably Fan Xpert 3 too.

 

You should know, your motherboard is also a small form factor. Micro ATX to be precise. It's not a full sized ATX motherboard.

 

Using the calculator below, yes 400 watts, as I predicted, would technically suffice. But as I say, it leaves very little for future upgrades. In addition, it allows little spare capacity to compensate for capacitor deterioration with age. It's a Corsair though, so a quality make.

 

http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

 

There's not much else I can suggest really, as you are confined to a  small budget, and pretty much everything I would suggest would cost you more. 

 

if you aren't self building, I would advise you to shop around in case there are better deals around.  

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I have to be honest here and say that I have never had a problem with fan noise when it comes to CPU coolers. My current CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO runs at full speed all of the time, and the Thermaltake Frio in my previous i5 2500k PC was super quiet aswell.

Yes a good fan but the builders did not have it - had the 212X which was on my shortlist.

Thanks for the mention.

 

Antioch

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Where PSUs are concerned, I usually select one that is generously over my requirements. It has never been a problem for me, and I am not sure why it would be.

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I'm surprised that no one has commented on the size of your proposed hard drive. Although you may not be using much of your existing drive, it makes no sense to get a new system with such a small drive. The price differential between a 500GB drive and a 1TB drive is tiny. At Scan Computers in the UK (highly recommended!) a 1TB SATA III Seagate Barracuda drive only costs £1.50 more than the equivalent Seagate 500GB drive. It only costs about £20 more for a 2TB drive! Yes, you could add another drive in the future but why bother when, for virtually zero cost (with the 1Tb option), you can have a system which is more future-proof now.

 

With regards to the CPU cooler, could you not just buy the one you want and ask the builder to fit it? That said, as you can't overclock your proposed system, any of the coolers offered would be more than adequate. As others have already suggested, I would also go for a bigger PSU. Better for the longevity of the system not to potentially run the PSU near its rated output.

 

For a new build, I would also recommend having Windows 10. Most problems people have with W10 come from having upgraded from an earlier version of Windows. A clean install avoids the problems of having to cope with old software and driver compatibility. It should arrive with the Anniversary update already installed, avoiding another potential problem area. I was a die-hard W7 user but decided to try W10 on my new build and, after a short period of re-adjustment, I now prefer it.

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I'm surprised that no one has commented on the size of your proposed hard drive. Although you may not be using much of your existing drive, it makes no sense to get a new system with such a small drive. The price differential between a 500GB drive and a 1TB drive is tiny. At Scan Computers in the UK (highly recommended!) a 1TB SATA III Seagate Barracuda drive only costs £1.50 more than the equivalent Seagate 500GB drive. It only costs about £20 more for a 2TB drive! Yes, you could add another drive in the future but why bother when, for virtually zero cost (with the 1Tb option), you can have a system which is more future-proof now.

 

With regards to the CPU cooler, could you not just buy the one you want and ask the builder to fit it? That said, as you can't overclock your proposed system, any of the coolers offered would be more than adequate. As others have already suggested, I would also go for a bigger PSU. Better for the longevity of the system not to potentially run the PSU near its rated output.

 

For a new build, I would also recommend having Windows 10. Most problems people have with W10 come from having upgraded from an earlier version of Windows. A clean install avoids the problems of having to cope with old software and driver compatibility. It should arrive with the Anniversary update already installed, avoiding another potential problem area. I was a die-hard W7 user but decided to try W10 on my new build and, after a short period of re-adjustment, I now prefer it.

 

 

 

Yep, very true. I was forgetting that this is a conventional HD, rather than an SSD. Dirt cheap these days. Bigger definitely good advice.

 

 

Well spotted.

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If your CPU really is a 6600 expect to NOT overclock it. If it has the K designation then OCing will be simple.

 

For fsx 6600 at stock speeds is pretty good still,unless you're running current high end addons.

 

Actually in hindsight that motherboard, being a budget board, probably won't allow simple OCing

 

(But in the manual it does have the fan Xpert)

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Hi to All

 

Hope you dont mind the way I have responded.

I have been away for a few days so playing catch-up.

I have already upgraded the HDD to 1Tb Sata III and gone over the top with a 550W PSU. No 500W.

 

The brand of the HDD is Seagate  - a WD 1 Tb increases the budget by £30 – other 1Tb are more.

These have pushed me over my budget - the mistake I made was letting 'her indoors' know what my budget was!

 

Martin - thanks for confirming the Ai Suite 3. Re the MB – yes it is a cheap one, but it was pointed out that my original choice, the Asus ATX Z170-P, has extras I would be unlikely to use/need and the saving would allow for a better graphics card within my budget.  I have used four other computer builders [even Dell] and the one I am with is somewhat cheaper than the others.  Even picking parts at their cheapest I can find for a self build, is only a few £s less. The rear case fan will be connected to the MB as well as the CPU fan.  The front fan via a molex.

 

Christopher - as you can see I have decided to increase the PSU.

 

Vortex – Hi - as you can see the HDD has been increased. I could buy a cooler from elsewhere but I am happy with my current choice.  I am aware of Scan and have bought parts from them for many years – great to deal with.  Re choice of Windows – I could go into a long diatribe but this is not the place nor time – I would use a ‘free open’ OS if it supported FS. I am completely disillusioned and disgusted with the manner in which MS treat current users as ‘morons’, by telling us what we want rather than what we need. I don’t fancy the fact that I cannot choose the updates I want/need. Many thanks for your input.

 

Ryan – Hi – No, I don’t expect or intend to do any OC on this computer.  I will have very few add-ons as I am what I would call a ‘casual flying’.

 

My thanks to everybody - I will be back after Xmas to resume discussions re a new monitor.

 

Antioch

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The new computer arrived on Monday and had a few probs which seem to have been sorted with a couple of phone calls.

Having set my displays etc and downloaded all my other software and docs, I loaded FS2002 with no problems at all, but without any extras - planes, scenery etc. On opening, I  got a window headed 'Software 3D enabled' saying that Safe Mode has been enabled because your system is currently unable to use hardware acceleration........................................product support services does not support Safe Mode and for information, see 'Readme' from the Flight Sim link in windows Start Menu - I have a screenshot if it helps.  There is no such link? - probable a very old informative. When I leave FS the desktop is a mess and still in safe mode appearance.

At the moment I am connected to the Dell E207WFP via VGA which all worked OK on the replaced system. I have been told that I need a DVI-D cable to connect directly with the GPU.  The Dell has a VGA and a DVI-D connections only.

In device/ hardware manager I note that there is an entry  for a Video Controller - VGA Compatible but it said no driver installed - there is no yellow triangle showing?

I have done a dxdiag - this shows DirectX 11 in system info - on the Display window it is shown that DX features are not available?

Sometimes I have opened a doc or screen print which has appeared grossly magnifiedand superimposed over the desktop - unable to remove it and have done a system restore to resolve.

 

I am not sure what to do next?

Antioch

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Software acceleration and large screen objects often points towards using default Windows video drivers. Have you got the latest NVIDIA drivers installed? Even if you have, I would consider reinstalling them after a fresh download from the GeForce site. Uninstall the old drivers first then use the clean install option for the reinstall.

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Hi vortex

I followed your instructions despite being assured I had the most up to date driver installed by the builder - 21.21.13.7254.  I went to Nvidia site and searched - I ran their search to see which driver if any was needed and was informed that I did not have Java - strange because I have the lastest installed - having entered all my card details, I downloaded to the desktop ready to open - I then went back to Device Manager uninstalled the driver - went back to run the download but it could not find the device - so went to do a clean install in Device Managerdo clean install but the GPU had gone and the VGA was left. I have the GPU disc and when I tried to install the driver it informed there was no compatible device found.

 

I am surprised I can see anything - there are no drivers installed for the VGA Video Controller? What did I do wrong?

I am at a complete loss now.

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Hi vortex

 

I followed your instructions despite being assured I had the most up to date driver installed by the builder - 21.21.13.7254.

 

Not quite sure where this number comes from. The latest drivers for your 1060 card are 375.70. As for Java, call me paranoid but I never install it on my systems because of the numerous security problems it's had over the years (don't confuse Java with javascript, which is useful). Google "java security problems" for more information. Even when it's been patched, more problems seem to appear shortly afterwards. You don't need Java if you manually search for the graphics drivers through the GeForce site - you only need it if you use the "Auto-detect your GPU" option.

 

For the graphics drivers, got to http://www.geforce.co.uk/drivers and in the manual driver search box make sure that all the details are correct for your system and in the bottom box in the list (which normally says All) select Recommended/certified and start the search. Click on the most recent driver at the top of the search results list and then agree and download the driver. Run the downloaded driver file, agree to the licence and then select the Custom (Advanced) installation option. On the next screen I would untick everything except for the Graphics Driver and PhysX System Software (useful for some games). Make sure that you tick the box to Perform a clean installation - this should automatically remove any previous drivers so no need to uninstall anything. Click next and let it do its thing. If it doesn't restart your system on completion, I would manually restart it. You should then be good to go!

 

To check that everything has installed properly, right-click on the desktop, select NVIDIA Control Panel, click on the Help menu and System Information. Where it says Driver version: it should show the one you just installed.

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Hi Vortex - sorry another long one.

Thanks for your continued help.  I spent most of yesterday looking through the Nvidia forums - was prompted to do so by a very late reply from the games forum @ MS where it was suggested I may wish to choose AMD and not Nvidia - perhaps I should have.

I can assure you it did not make pretty reading is some forums. I also went through all the folders titled Nvidia - could not believe how many times it was listed. In some it  had DisplayDriver-  on opening shows 375.70-WIN7 & WIN8.  Not all Event Viewer logs had been cleared but so far I could not find anything relating to a driver being installed. Lots of warnings and errors though.

The driver number 21.21.13.7254 came from Device Manager - yes I did the search in Nvidia  for a driver according to my system but it did nothing but tell me re Java - you and I are both of the same mind re Java - I only use it for one piece of software but it remains disabled all the time.

375.70 is the latest of many updates for this driver- six in all since the GPU was launched a few months ago. I searched the forums for info and found this one was 'buggy' avoid if possible - the next two have 'adware' and 'pups' apparently - the fourth one, 372.90 dated 21 Sept 2016 is fairly reliable - no wonder the forums are upset.

It did not help with login probs - password not recognised - no account recognised nor email address for any account and to top it all, two posters noted that my original post and replies suddenly disappeared. I found the same when I got logged in. This is normal for these forums.

As for the Nvidia Control Panel, I have been looking for this ever since almost day one - 'right-click on the desktop, select NVIDIA Control Panel' - no such choice in the drop-down - this was another thing I searched for yesterday. So I have no Nvidia Control Panel.

I found in one folder ControlPanelClient - there are three items here - nvcplui application, nvcpluir.dll & NvGpuUtilization application. When the first is opened I get a box saying NVIDIA Control Panel Aplication 8.1.900.0 has stopped working with the choice of 'check online', 'close programme' 'view problem details' - the problem event name is APPCRASH. In the other subfolders nothing of note.

If I select from the drop-down,'personalization' there is a link to Control Panel - but not what I expected - more for use inside Windows applications - nothing indicating anything to do with Nvidia. The other choice is screen resolution, which is a section of Control Panel.

So I am back in 'limbo' as to which way to go - could box it all up send it back for the builder to sort out.

375.70 or 372.90?????

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yes I did the search in Nvidia for a driver according to my system but it did nothing but tell me re Java

 

Odd. I don't have Java on my system and I can successfully use the "Manual Driver Search" box on the GeForce driver site from the link in my last post. Don't use the "Automatic Driver Updates" or "Auto-Detect Your GPU". If you're still getting the Java message, try using another browser to access the GeForce site.

 

Have you downloaded and installed a set of NVIDIA drivers yet? If you feel that the 372.90 is a good bet, download it from the GeForce site (it comes up in the search results list for your card). I have to say that I have yet to find an official NVIDIA driver, downloaded from the GeForce, site which contains adware or pop-ups so I would tend to disregard those comments you read. You'll find that there are always people on the GeForce forums who claim every new driver is full of bugs. With regards to the NVIDIA Control Panel, you will only see it (by right-clicking on the desktop) if you have successfully installed the NVIDIA drivers.

 

As far as the different chipsets go, the general concensus of opinion amongst FSX users is that NVIDIA cards work better than AMD.

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I would suggest you run a driver cleaner and then download the latest driver and install.... clearly something is amiss, corrupt. Start from scratch.

 

And no, you should not switch to AMD, whoever said that is talking nonsense.

 

I don't belive you need Java, but if you like, you can install it, download your driver, then uninstall Java.

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So I am back in 'limbo' as to which way to go - could box it all up send it back for the builder to sort out.

 

Have you tried running FSX or FS9 on the new machine, it could be that FS2002 is triggering software rendering because it is calling for DX8.

Are the latest DX12 cards and drivers even compatible as far back as DX8 ?

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Hi to all

I spent most of the morning onto the builder but we were unable to connect via remote control.

Having looked through the folders for WIN 7 it would appear that at least two folders and their contents are missing - not my fault - and rather than the hassle of boxing the system and sending it back I have initially agreed to do a clean install as I have an OEM disc which they supply. I will do this next weekend when I have the time.

 

Thank you vortex, martin and glynn for all your help - sorry to have wasted your time and the trouble. I shall save to disc all my personal files etc then reinstall.

 

Before doing this, I shall also get the required DVI-D cable to connect GPU with the display[which has VGA & DVI-D inputs] - DVI-D to DVI-D and an external HDD with the My Passport.

 

I have not tried FS9 - damaged disc - and FSX First addition is with another - but I was looking at the Steam Edition, which I believe is a full application.

 

So I will be back sometime - soon I hope.

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I have not tried FS9 - damaged disc - and FSX First addition is with another - but I was looking at the Steam Edition, which I believe is a full application.

I used FSX Gold on my old system but opted for FSX:SE on my new build and I'm very happy with it. A big plus is that it removes any potential problems with trying to register it. It's also supposed to handle VAS better, so less OOMs if that's something you've had any problems with in the past. It's usually significantly discounted in the Steam sales (but still very reasonable at full price).

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Good luck, hope all goes well. Do pop back and let us know.  :smile:

Yes, I will let you know

 

 

I used FSX Gold on my old system but opted for FSX:SE on my new build and I'm very happy with it

 

Good to hear - can l get it via this site though I do wonder where the versions of Steam come from, that are on offer in Amazon and the like.

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