Sign in to follow this  
C525B

C441 start procedure video

Recommended Posts

For anyone who is interested in comparing... (BTW, the "NTS switch" he refers to is the UNFEATHER switch, located between the start buttons).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_191f-64dDY

 

Perhaps I will forward this to Alabeo support and see if they're interested in correcting the NTS operation... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I submitted a support ticket. I included the video you provided when discussing start procedure.

 

I also reported the NTS and HYD LOW lights remaining on.

 

I am also having problems with the pitch mode of the autopilot. After I deselect ALT HOLD the autopilot does not want to default to pitch mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I submitted a support ticket. I included the video you provided when discussing start procedure.

 

I also reported the NTS and HYD LOW lights remaining on.

 

I am also having problems with the pitch mode of the autopilot. After I deselect ALT HOLD the autopilot does not want to default to pitch mode.

My first flight last evening and for some reason I ended up with just the 'HYD LOW' showing. On the 'ALT HOLD' couldn't get my head around what was happening. Managed to do an ILS approach although the 'GS' indicator seemed to get stuck, will give it another go latter on.

 

bob

 

edit just checked again, the 'NTS' remains on.

 

edit 2 Flight from KCLM - KHQM ILS approach, GS indicator didn't show. It did on the Nav2 and OBS but didn't seem to work fully ( not in sync with the Altitude or runway lights.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am having all the above problems as well.  I sent a support ticket this morning.  I'm also having trouble with the autopilot.  Pitch up and down is not working.  Also should the plane roll forward before the start locks are taken off?  if the props aren't creating any pitch should it still roll?  I'm asking because I haven't flown a real one yet.

 

Also, when my condition levers are in "START/TAXI"  the plane goes way too fast down the taxiway, so I'm taxiing with them in "TAKEOFF/CRUISE"  which is wrong, but the plane taxis much slower.  Is this an accurate characteristic? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that it doesn't help much but I'm not having some of the problems mentioned above.

 

Firstly the ILS at Bowerman KHQM is working although flying one stop below the glide you need to disconnect the AP at 1 mile.

Glidepath performance at other airfields can be better but there is always a tendency to fly below the Glide.

 

Secondly the pitch up and down is working (by clicking not mouse wheel ) but I think that you need the FD selected.

You can actually see the pitch datum  rise and fall slowly ( in Windowed mode tool tips shows the angle )

The two warning lights remain a problem.

 

As for taxy speed ... I believe that most turboprops from that era taxied like "Express Trains" to quote an old instructor of mine ; he left the props in beta mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've also requested some info on how to use the Autopilot and also pointed out the Glide Slope indicator gets stuck, or is just not aligned with the glide path.

although I have managed to fly an ILS approach I'm not sure how I did it, The auto pilot does not have an Approach button only a GS button. so I Have just clicked the NAV and GS buttons. or maybe its just working on the Flight Dirctor.

BTW I'm using PrePar3D.

 

bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The autopilot is a very old and basic autopilot system. You have to think of the system in the terms of the modes it provides. (I am not a C441 expert just have operated some older autopilots.)

 

On the lateral mode you have the following:

 

Roll mode - This would be a wing level or bank mode and it is the mode the autopilot is in when no other mode is selected on the FD. You can use the roll knob to change the angle of bank the airplane is holding. (Works great for a VCOA departure.) 

 

Heading mode - Everyone should be use to this. Set the bug and the system will command the AP to follow the heading bug.

 

Navigation mode - Causes the aircraft to follow the primary navigation source in the pilot's HSI. The pilot does need to establish an intercept heading (using heading mode normally) prior to engaging NAV.

 

BC - Backcourse. There are fewer of these approaches, however it causes the aircraft to fly to the tail of the HSI as opposed to the head. Depends of the FD system some will only allow this when tuned to localizer frequencies, some will always fly the tail when BC is selected. 

 

The Vertical mode has the following:

 

Pitch mode - Again like the roll mode the pitch mode works in the vertical profile. Engaging the autopilot should default it in pitch hold mode and the pitch up and down can be adjusted with the pitch wheel on the autopilot. NOTE: This does not always mean the aircraft will climb or descend, you could initially pitch the aircraft down and it may start to descend, then as the aircraft speeds up the descent will change to a climb... You have to manage this mode closely. (This mode also gets stuck after selecting ALT in FSX:Steam.)

 

Altitude Hold - Activating this mode will hold the aircraft at the altitude the aircraft was at when the button was selected. Recommend you decrease your rate of climb or descent to less than 500 fpm before selecting Altitude Hold. This will help to prevent altitude over/under shooting.

 

GS - Glideslope. If the approach has a glideslope (ILS, LNAV+V, or LPV) then the vertical mode will follow the glideslope. You must properly capture the glideslope that is be in altitude hold mode at an altitude below the glideslope. 

 

Again, I am not an expert in this particular autopilot, I have experience in older systems and understanding how they work has allowed me to be mostly successful with Alabeo's version. 


As for taxy speed ... I believe that most turboprops from that era taxied like "Express Trains" to quote an old instructor of mine ; he left the props in beta mode.

 

Agreed, release the brakes allow the airplane to accelerate and when the taxi speed is about right hit F2. Unfortunately, this tends to be a little too much beta and the airplane will slow down so you will have to jockey in and out of beta when taxiing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recommend you decrease your rate of climb or descent to less than 500 fpm before selecting Altitude Hold. This will help to prevent altitude over/under shooting.

Thanks for you response Ken, Have managed to get my head round most of the Alabeo/carenado Autopilots but this one is a bit more difficult. did request some info from Alabeo on this and the glide slope indicator but the response back was they were not seeing this.

took your suggestion and kept the climb rate down at intersecting the altitude.

Noticed if I select 3deg on the pitch hold and turn on autopilot it sets at 8deg, about a 2000fpm climb. There doesn't appear to be any 'arm' for intersecting a fixed altitude.

I'm seeing a slight difference between HSI and OBS (nav2) glide slopes.

anyways I did managed to fly an ILS approach by selecting GS., is this normal for this Autopilot/

 

bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This autopilot seems to not have an altitude selector, but an altitude alerter. Basically all the alerter will do is let you know you are close to your level off altitude. Most alerters will chime at 1,000 feet prior and some will do a secondary chime or display a light 300'.

 

I have not seen a difference in HSI and the OBS. 

 

That is how you fly a coupled approach. Select HDG and set an intercept heading, then select NAV. Descend to your FAF altitude and once there select ALT. Then select once NAV has coupled to the LOC and you are on ALT hold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is how you fly a coupled approach. Select HDG and set an intercept heading, then select NAV. Descend to your FAF altitude and once there select ALT. Then select once NAV has coupled to the LOC and you are on ALT hold.

ok will try this..

 

bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I've figured out that the pitch mode does work if you open the window (Shift + 3) in FSX.  I'm using the GTN 750, so nav mode works fine, but as you approach your target altitude start dialing back the pitch leading to your altitude and then hit the alt button to hold the altitude.  

 

It seems strange to me that if Alabeo is assuming a model which has upgraded avionics, why wouldn't they assume an upgraded autopilot... oh well...

 

Right now I'm looking at the aircraft.cfg to see if I can tweak the engines / props so that it doesn't go quite so fast when taxiing, and also when I put it in reverse and bring back out it doesn't surge so much.  Does anyone know much about the aircraft.cfg?  Looks like it has similar lines to other turboprop cfg files.

 

Also, here's the response I received from Alabeo:

 

Thank you for your valuable feedback.
We'll consider it to include ton the next version for this aircraft.

 

Pretty disappointing considering the problems I pointed out are the NTS check, and a couple of other main "Garrett" type items.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems strange to me that if Alabeo is assuming a model which has upgraded avionics, why wouldn't they assume an upgraded autopilot... oh well...

 

 Concur, seems the autopilot is the first to be changed out by many owner / operators.

 

 

 

Next come avionics. The factory-installed Cessna autopilots on this airplane are, to be blunt, junk-and about 70 percent of the 441s still flying have them. They are unreliable analog dinosaurs prone to failure, and parts are hard to get. Most 441s are flown single-pilot and you need a good autopilot to reduce pilot workload. Cessna figured this out eventually, installing Sperry SPZ500s on the last 20 airplanes out the door. Retrofits are primarily the Rockwell Collins APS-65 or the S-Tec 2100. Some operators already made the switch when they installed RVSM altimeters, which are now required to fly above 28,000 feet. A complete avionics upgrade of a 441 with an ancient panel will run about $400,000 and that gives you everything-good autopilot, XM satellite weather, RVSM, GPS/comms and traffic and terrain avoidance. The Avidyne Alliant integrated glass-panel system is also available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KenG,

 

Thanks for your comment. I'm thinking of picking this C441 up. Would you consider this edition fairly realistic in terms of avionics and handling? I'm also assuming G530 is more common than G750. However, there is an interesting YouTube C441 retrofit with a complete avionics upgrade to G600 and double 750s.

 

Thanks / Les Parson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments Ken.  

 

I just flew my first IFR flight on Pilot Edge with the Conquest, and I really enjoyed it.  The autopilot being what it is, mixed with the GTN 750, and then this being my first plane with Garretts... I kind of chuckled because even though I haven't flown a 441 in real life, the plane is quirky like a lot of airplanes, but a fun plane to fly.

 

MY close friend flies a 441 so I want to get his take on this model... Personally I would like to tweak the CFG just so it taxis slower, because it's like a bucking horse right now when I hit my brake button.  I don't have rudder pedals... which I'm sure help a ton!

 

Overall though, with the exception of a few bugs... fun airplane.


here are some good videos on start procedure:

 

 

Hot Start (found it interesting):

 

 

Shut down:

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KenG,

 

Thanks for your comment. I'm thinking of picking this C441 up. Would you consider this edition fairly realistic in terms of avionics and handling? I'm also assuming G530 is more common than G750. However, there is an interesting YouTube C441 retrofit with a complete avionics upgrade to G600 and double 750s.

 

Thanks / Les Parson

 

Les,

 

 Recommending an Alabeo or Carnado product is a slippery slope. Understand that Alabeo and Carenado do one thing great, exceptional aircraft models with high quality gorgeous textures. The Alabeo Cessna 441 Conquest is no exception meeting the high quality of standards in this regard. 

 

 However, once you get past how photogenic the aircraft is and start to fly her the typical warts start to show. Numerous switches and buttons that flip and do nothing, incorrect systems logic, and errors in the Flight Dynamics. Even when Alabeo does its patches I seriously doubt it will ever reach the systems and flight modeling experience of the Flysimware version.  Since the C441 is an analog gauge airplane without complicated glass displays the breakdown in systems only comes when you really dig into how the airplane is suppose to react. 

 

 If you are a kick the tires and light the fires type of person then this may be the perfect version of the 441. However, if you are looking for accurate response and detailed systems then you may want to go for the ugly duckling (flysimware.) 

 

 IMHO this is a gap filler airplane for someone with a fleet of turboprops. It represents the best of big Cessna twins from back in the 1970s. This is no modern B350i or B250 with lots of glass. This is more about watching analog dials and managing the airplane. She can and will quickly run away from you.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this