I just got my very own 737-800...

[Mochi 82]

Resolution in current VR is NOT 2x 1080p screen. It's only half of 1080p as you get sth like 1200x1080 each eye.

 

If this is not abysmal already, Oculus decided to use pentile OLED in their Rift, which means you lose half of red and blue pixels. So altogether, it's closer to real resolution of 800x600 each eye. Totally pathetic.

 

That's why after having DK2 I'm determined to skip this first generation VR set and waiting for the 2nd generation to come out. 

 

Wow.. You sure now how to rain on a parade!

[FlyIce 354]

eh... no offense to the folks who love CV1. I'm a die-hard VR fan too otherwise I wouldn't jump early to DK2 and tried it with P3D years ago.

 

However every time I talk about CV1 my blood boils b/c OR decided to keep using the same low resolution pentile OLED screen while  >2K screens were already available at the time. I was hoping so much that CV1 would be at least 2k but OR gave me such a huge disappointment.

 

I normally hate conspiracy theories but rumor says they did this to help sell Samsung GearVR + Note4' 2560x1440 screen... hum... 

[WebMaximus 372]

Hi WebMaximus thanks for posting your thoughts. But now that you have had it for a few days, do you have any regrets about your purchase? do you still feel the same excitement? I to have a similar setup as you with a 50"4K monitor, and I"m happy with the frame rate and visuals, but after reading your post I have the urge to go 3D.

Yes, I'm still is as excited as I was when I first got it and I still consider it the most amazing investment I ever did for flightsim! Flew EKCH-ESSA today with ATC in Sweden and the immersion was beyond words!

 

Sure the resolution could be better and it's certainly not like it was on my 4K 48" TV or even close to it but as I said before the immersion of actually being in the cockpit trumps the not so good resolution big time if you ask me. I guess it comes down to what is most important to you and what kind of flying you do. In my case doing all my flying online in the NGX trying to replicate real world operation as close as possible I have never been more close!

 

Another thing to keep in mind is having VR glasses featuring higher resolution isn't all that is required but hardware being able to run those high res glasses will also be required and I don't think what is available today would fit the bill.

 

Sure we'll get there eventually and sure we'll all be laughing when we think back of what we have today in a couple of years as is always the case in this business but...until we are there I'm very happy with what we have today despite the limitations!

Resolution in current VR is NOT 2x 1080p screen. It's only half of 1080p as you get sth like 1200x1080 each eye.

 

If this is not abysmal already, Oculus decided to use pentile OLED in their Rift, which means you lose half of red and blue pixels. So altogether, it's closer to real resolution of 800x600 each eye. Totally pathetic.

 

That's why after having DK2 I'm determined to skip this first generation VR set and waiting for the 2nd generation to come out.

 

Any idea how far off that second version is, what specs it will have and what will be required to run it with acceptable performance?

The Oculus resolution is good enough for me. Sure, it would be nice if the resolution was higher. But since that's all we can get right now, and nobody knows how long we'll have to wait until any 2nd generation headsets become available, then I am satisfied with what I have right now, and I totally enjoy flying and racing with it. Virtual reality is the most new and enjoyable experience I've had with any kind of computer entertainment for a decade. Speculating about how much better the future VR display resolution could be given sufficient time is not something that lessens my enjoyment.

All my thoughts exactly!

 

For anyone on the fence I highly suggest you try to find a dealer with a 100% money back guarantee if you're not happy so you can try it out yourself because for anyone who never tried it reading posts saying how great the immersion is or posts saying how bad the resolution is won't do you any good until you tried it out yourself.

 

If I wouldn't have tried it out already and found this thread I would probably have hesitated getting one due to the mixed reports but now that I know how much I like it and how it has transformed my flying into something I never thought would be possible I'm very happy I decided to try it out!

[aron 0]

I guess I'll have to give it a go, and see for myself. For me the feeling of flight would be the most important thing, and the way you describe it cements the feeling that I think I will get from it.

I can always return it if it doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

Thank WebMaxis for sharing your detailed experience.

[WebMaximus 372]

NP Aron, hope you like it and if not just take it back from where you bought it but if the sensation of actually flying is more important to you than the visuals you're in for a treat :smile:

 

I would go as far as saying the difference between using a normal display vs using the Oculus and FlyInside combo equals simulating flying an aircraft vs actually flying the aircraft although virtually.

[Raven9000 272]

eh... no offense to the folks who love CV1. I'm a die-hard VR fan too otherwise I wouldn't jump early to DK2 and tried it with P3D years ago.

 

However every time I talk about CV1 my blood boils b/c OR decided to keep using the same low resolution pentile OLED screen while  >2K screens were already available at the time. I was hoping so much that CV1 would be at least 2k but OR gave me such a huge disappointment.

 

I normally hate conspiracy theories but rumor says they did this to help sell Samsung GearVR + Note4' 2560x1440 screen... hum...

 

So Sony and HTC are also in on it, huh..?

[Bob Scott 7,721]

Well, I gave it a whirl.  Bottom line, VR simming in its current state is just not gonna work for me.  One word--resolution.

 

It was like jumping into a plane without my glasses.  As a retired r/w pilot, I place a lot of emphasis on the head work in flying...situational awareness, planning ahead, monitoring systems, etc.  My most valued add ons are those that provide study-sim level detail, including intricate glass instrumentation, full-featured FMS computers, detailed system simulation etc (PMDG tubeliners, Majestic Q400, F1 GTN750, etc).  That all-important detail is all but lost due to the fuzzy blur the Oculus Rift 1080x1200 display presents.  I might be able to eventually get past that feeling of being a student in the Ray Charles School of Flight, having to grope about for my flight controls and my mouse.  I might be able to get past having the VR display fog up repeatedly on me after 30+ minutes.  But the fuzzy illegible caricature of what I know is actually a beautifully rendered high-res 3D panel and displays is just a bridge too far.

 

The sense of being there on the flight deck is quite compelling.  That said, the novelty of that wore off for me rather quickly.  The Flyinside guy(s) did a brilliant job with their interface and solved some of the other problems related to VR gear, like frame rate and menu management.  The positional accuracy of the head sensing is far better than the TrackIR.  But the number of physical pixels in the display is an inescapable limiting factor with the Oculus CV1.  I felt like I was trying to fly after my contacts fell out, having to lean way into the panel in order to read anything more detailed than the large numbers on the center panel MCP.  The experience when sitting with a view set for a normal sitting position was like being a passenger in a car after having your eyes dilated at the optometrist's office. 

 

The Oculus Rift CV1 immerses you in the sense of flight much more completely than even a big flat panel.  If that sense is what you seek, it's worth a look.  But if the art of aviating, navigating, and communicating is your thing, VR means you'll have to do it wearing beer goggles, I'm afraid.

 

Huge potential here when the technology gets us to somewhere around 4x the current resolution, I think.  Until then, I'm going to return the RIft to the store and stick with my 4K display.

 

Regards

[glider1 90]

 

 

Huge potential here when the technology gets us to somewhere around 4x the current resolution, I think.  Until then, I'm going to return the RIft to the store and stick with my 4K display.

 

Could you tell us what level of supersampling you were using. The Rift on default resolution is bad I agree, but on 4xsupersampling it is very acceptable for the benefits you gain being in VR. Some say 2xsupersampling is good enough too.

 

And before anyone goes on and on - yes I know that supersampling doesn't add extra resolution, but it significantly improves the overall depiction of the displayed image and general impression.

 

I did a full IFR not VFR flight today from Orbx Jackson's airport in VR at 4xsupersampling using voice recognition and it was a wonderful experience far better than anything possible on a 2D flat panel.

[WebMaximus 372]

Huge potential here when the technology gets us to somewhere around 4x the current resolution, I think.  Until then, I'm going to return the RIft to the store and stick with my 4K display.

 

Sorry to hear the Oculus Rift wasn't for you in it's current state but I guess when you come from a r/w pilot background you might be a bit more picky which is fully understandable since you know both what it should look like and feel like in the real thing.

 

For those of us however that won't get any closer to flying a real aircraft than simulating it in front of our PCs I personally think the lower resolution until the hardware has been further developed is a fair price to pay in order to experience this amazing feeling being in the cockpit of the aircraft you're piloting.

Could you tell us what level of supersampling you were using. The Rift on default resolution is bad I agree, but on 4xsupersampling it is very acceptable for the benefits you gain being in VR. Some say 2xsupersampling is good enough too.

 

And before anyone goes on and on - yes I know that supersampling doesn't add extra resolution, but it significantly improves the overall depiction of the displayed image and general impression.

 

I did a full IFR not VFR flight today from Orbx Jackson's airport in VR at 4xsupersampling using voice recognition and it was a wonderful experience far better than anything possible on a 2D flat panel.

 

So far I haven't really tried anything but the default settings myself but maybe I'll give this a go myself.

 

Where exactly are you setting this supersampling level, is it somewhere inside FlyInside or in P3D or using Nvidia Inspector?

 

Edited to add I wonder what the difference would be replacing a 980Ti with a 1080 when it comes to supersampling?

 

Reason for my question is I remember before I got my 4K TV I used the SGSS in Nvidia Inspector which did wonders for shimmering and AA issues but at the cost of a severe performance hit when flying through dense clouds.

 

I guess the same thing will be true if enabling supersampling when flying with the Oculus Rift glasses but if this is a good cure for some of the shimmering and will give you a much better experience it might be worth to replace a 980Ti with a 1080 I'm thinking...

[WebMaximus 372]

Speaking about resolution and how some of the smallest text looking at the PFD in the NGX for example might be a bit hard to read I yesterday tried out the zoom feature in FlyInside.

 

I think it was already mentioned but thought I would mention it again because it works really good!

[ComSimPilot 623]

Hi all,

 

I would like to share my experience even if its only some hours long. I should admit that I was intrigued by Richard's post and I ordered the Oculus Rift plus the FlyInside software. The need for VR was always my final target and I admit that running multiple monitors was never a slick idea I liked. I was following the Oculus project since its beginning but stopped at DK2 when I saw that the resolution and framerate was not appropriate for our flight sims. it was Richard's post that made aware of the released CV1, its increased  resolution and the FlyInside software and I thank him very much for doing so. So, my initial thoughts:

Starting from the hot debate topic - resolution. I will not say that it does not matter. In a simulation experience -everything- matters to make it as real as it gets. Even AI or ground traffic. Our brain uses all available information. So, indeed the only turn-off right now is the resolution. Do not expect to see these dust particles on the MFDs or the FD bars crisp and clear. This is not something I underestimate. However, is this a show stopper? For me, definitely not. Because the show is much much much bigger than any 2D experience. Another thing to consider is, if it's possible. How many can run two or three, 4K monitors on a single GPU? With the Oculus I get around 30-40 in-game fps on medium-high settings. I suppose we would need +200% CPU performance to get it to that level of two 4K screens. I suppose we will be there sometime in the future. Also, even if Oculus could release a 4K VR I don't think it would be a wise marketing option to release a headset that have SLI as pre-requirement, as it would limit their customer audience and sales. So, we should be realistic on what's possible, at least on FSX/P3D.

 

So, what about the virtual flying experience. I will of course agree that you have to experience it to understand its potential. I will give some examples of 3D feelings that you can't have in 2D:

 

1) You get to understand space. You are inside a cockpit, you look around and you feel you are there. The screens on the NGX for example are far behind the MCP. Or you feel how close the windows are.  Looking outside, you can judge how far away is the nosecone, how far away is the push back track, the air-gate, where the runway ends as you roll off the runway. Clouds, you see some clouds are indeed far away some are really close, you see the close ones moving faster. 

 

2) Situational awareness: This is by far the best you can get if you don't have a full scale training simulator. This means, you can look around. Not just left right and a little up and down as in TrackIR. You can look -everywhere-. The tracking accuracy of this thing is unimaginable. I don't know how they do it, but there is no lag anywhere. You can turn 180 degrees and look back, you can look at the pedestral, the overhead, anywhere without any hint of stutter or lag, perfectly smoothly. I can imagine why in combat simulators this would be even more paramount. Why this is amazing..because all approaches that are not done under IMC require you to look around. And trust me, trackIR cannot simulate this head-tracking ability. You turn your head, physically 90 degrees and look out the FO's window. You see the traffic, you see the runways, you can align your airplane so much more accurately than using a 2D monitor. 

 

3) Banking. As I have never flown a real airplane or full scale simulator, a banking angle of 10 degrees seems as easy as one of 40 degrees in the 2D flight simulator. In 3D this is completely different. Banking too much and too fast can cause you fell dizzy, just like in real life. Of course you don't feel the g forces, which are equally important, but your brain anticipates that in 3D and you are more careful about your flying. This may also mean that you won't feel as comfortable aligning to the centreline 5nm before the runway coming from a steep angle on a visual approach. All these factrors are so immersive that you don't think about the resolution so much anymore.

 

That for now, I only did some circuits with the NGX. I will report again in some days when I will have a more mature picture of the system.
 

[WebMaximus 372]

Sorry I don't know your real name but thanks for sharing your experience so far Daedalus!

Glad to hear you're happy so far with your investment and what you describe is spot on what I think about all this. For instance how the resolution isn't that important once you start flying since you will be 100% busy with the immersion itself being in the cockpit and actually fly the aircraft rather than just flying a model of something you see in front of you on a 2D screen.

Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to help out based on what I've learned so far.

One thing I highly suggest now that I discovered this great feature myself is to make use of the zoom in FlyInside. It comes in very handy when trying to see your pre-selected QNH on the PFD in the NGX for example or make out what it says on that distant taxi sign while trying to find your way to the gate.

Surely not 100% realistic unless you bring a pair of binoculars with you in the cockpit but still a very nice and helpful feature and there are lots of them in FlyInside. A very impressive software IMO!

 

One thing I forgot to comment on which I think is very true and important from a realism perspective is how you will find yourself being much more careful with your flying simply to avoid feeling ill or even get scared for real because when you sit there it really feels that realistic and how you are actually on that aircraft you're piloting.

 

This is not the kind of environment where you'll like to do some crazy and reckless flying maneuvers unless you're forced to and if you are be prepared you will feel those maneuvers in a way you never did before unless you have real world experience.

 

For the first time since I started this hobby I actually worry for real about things such as flying into severe weather where I don't know how the aircraft will behave or getting to know that the landing conditions at my destination is very poor.

 

I really like this fact since that is something that adds a lot to the overall sense of realism.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

For those that are wondering on the SGSS, here is a screenshot.. this example comes from the NI inspector program, the p3d profile.. you set these parameters.. here it is 4x, but that for me and a 1080 gtx was slightly too much in heavy weather, so for me i use 2sgss instead.

 

I also set flyinside's resolution to the max which is 3840x2160..

 

I took a break from VR for a few weeks, came back to a newer nvidia driver, which actually isnt the very newest but the last one, and i swear things seem a bit sharper.  Again, if anyone hasnt tried DCS or better yet Aerofly FS2 or Xplane10 (with flyinside) and Xplane 11 (soon with flyinside), its really worth a comparison.  Less fiddling and more wow, however less addon and power house tools ability in those currently.

 

 

Side note.. wondering if anyone in the p3d community has tested the PIMAX 4K headset yet.. granted you cant lean left right forward and back, but you can turn your head (gyro) and they are rated at 4k.. all for $375, wondering how they perform.. i'm hoping to get my hands on a pair in the next few months to test.  I'm guessing the higher res will make the frame rate lower, unsure.. even for a 1080 gtx and since SLI was a bust in my tests, may be a waiting game for 4k performance.  I would think the guys at flyinside would also have to add support for it, for P3D at least.

[WebMaximus 372]

Thanks, already tried SGSS but in my case using all my current settings in P3D and a single 980Ti even 2xSGSS had a very noticeable bad impact on the performance where the head movements no longer were as smooth as I like them to be.

 

To me the choice between some shimmering and bad AA vs unsmooth head movements is an easy one.

 

I'm sure I already said it before somewhere in this long thread but personally I think we'll all have to wait for quite some time before we'll see hardware that will allow the kind of performance and image quality we're looking for. That's why I choose to enjoy what we already have while waiting for that next generation of hardware both when it comes to VR glasses as well as CPUs and GPUs.

 

Just having a new version of the glasses with much higher resolution won't help us as long as we don't have GPUs powerful enough to run those glasses. Nothing new under the sun really.

[theskyisthelimit 48]

Thanks, already tried SGSS but in my case using all my current settings in P3D and a single 980Ti even 2xSGSS had a very noticeable bad impact on the performance where the head movements no longer were as smooth as I like them to be.

 

To me the choice between some shimmering and bad AA vs unsmooth head movements is an easy one.

 

I'm sure I already said it before somewhere in this long thread but personally I think we'll all have to wait for quite some time before we'll see hardware that will allow the kind of performance and image quality we're looking for. That's why I choose to enjoy what we already have while waiting for that next generation of hardware both when it comes to VR glasses as well as CPUs and GPUs.

 

Just having a new version of the glasses with much higher resolution won't help us as long as we don't have GPUs powerful enough to run those glasses. Nothing new under the sun really.

I had the 980ti, and i jumped ship to the 1080 ftw hybrid.. the biggest difference here was that i could enable things like the higher res and the SGSS and not take a big hit.

 

I think makers like the PIMAX 4k headset are worth watching, or future versions using that type of 4k hardware.