Piracy Reports

[TweakFS 1]

>No, it wouldn't be - but there is a big difference. The>witness in the shop has the option to tell the owner or the>police. The analogy would only be correct, if the witness also>had a third option, i.e. informing a privately run>'anti-shoplifting' agency, and this is where I would have>serious reservations.Well an analogy is only that, I certainly didn't mean for it to be an exact parallel to the situation, only to highlight one aspect, but even so when someone submits a report it is sent to the appropriate developer so it is like telling the owner. And as you say there is the option of dealing with it any way you choose, some contact the developer directly, some not at all, no-one is forced to report anything. I think the "anti-piracy" icon is a way to keep the issue constantly before the FS community, there is no suggestion there is some kind of a task-force or organization here.

[louiseSEUK 2]

>Ok then, lets hope it works, then payware companies can stop>using the ridicolously restrictive (to the paying customer)>security measures, which obviously are'nt working in the first>place>>Dan.You know what Dan, couldnt agree more. When i first saw this piracy campaign on the front page, i got worried for the reasons that Randy outlined - please before i get flamed, i dont use pirated s/w but had a "disagreement" with a certain payware company that a few of you from previous posts, i know have had similar misfortune to deal with. My concern was that they may now post my details as a pirate because, well they think i could be.After a number of heated discussions for a new licence, i was getting nowhere, each request coming back with "protection of software against piracy" with my final request to them challenging that as a legitimate user, who would have no benefit in supplying not only my key, but my personal email address, along with s/w i'd payed for (err, no thanks, its mine, dont want to share), it would probably be less bother and find a pirated version that would bypass any security mechanism than to request my licence key.Of course, this was NOT a threat, and was specifically stated as such; I wanted to put across clearly that their over protective security was a disservice to legitimate customers, and the whole security was negated by the ability of piraters out there to bypass in the first place. But nonetheless this company whose mission statement is to "Serve our customers and our community with respect and goodwill using the highest standard of ethics and integrity" suggested i was an individual who had no compuncture in using pirated software. i found this to be not a very good example of respect. To continue the analogy of the shop and shoplifter, that you know how to shoplift does not a shoplifter make. Knowledge is one thing, action is something entirely different Software houses must understand that over zealous security can act as a deterrent to the desire to purchase legitimate software, and certainly means i wont be using this company again given my experience. A shame, cause the product i had was really really excellent quality.By the same token, end users must be vigilant and not offer their purchased software to all and sundryRant over, Leo

[Guest wathomas777]

The BEST way to stamp out piracy is to issue the product at a price point and value that makes pirating the software almost meaningless.Take for example VHS tapes of movies. When the VCR first came out, video tapes of movies often approached $100.00 when first available. Now a days, first run video releases are often priced below $20, and in many cases, VHS tapes can be purchased under $10.00At $10.00 the work it takes to "copy" the movie is generally more hassle than to buy the legitimate copy.I think what needs to be remembered is that many "piracy" sites pirate software simply because it's there. Many of these sites do not crack "warez" to actually use them, but rather just for the satisfaction that they "beat the system". Unlike shoplifters and other criminals who either use the product or fence it for cash, these "warez" sites rarely if at all "resell" their broken copies, so they have no financial gain from the process.Instead of setting up a system of "piracy" hotlines, perhaps developers should look at re-pricing their products more in line to what is provided. Why, in many cases, are direct downloads the same cost as a CD or DVD. The overhead in providing a file for download is miniscule compared to authoring CD's providing written inserts, packaging, and shipping. Yet in many cases, the consumer gets little or no part of the cost savings the developer sees when he publishes his items electronically. If companies would routinely offer deeper discounts to direct downloaded products and pass some of those savings to the customer, then we might see a decrease.Also, pricing is a huge issue. FSGenesis, which I feel is one of the premier add-on shops, has no item over $15.00. Justin provides significant savings for bulk ordering of product, and even a "membership" which gives people almost an all they can eat buffet.At $9.99 for a wide area mesh, I get what I feel is an incredible value. I don't see Justin fighting piracy that much, and even if there are warez sites available, that host it, most honest people buy from Justin because his products are of high quality, he offers free upgrades to people who purchase, and his prices are more than reasonable.There will always be honest and dishonest people in this world. You can either tailor your business to meet the demands of the "honest" folks and provide for THEIR needs, by taking "appropriate" measures to discourage piracy by realistically pricing your product, eliminating intrusive and frustrating copy protection. ORYou can tailor your business to go after the the "pirate" and outrageously price your product to foster further dishonesty, provide ridiculous copy protection schemes, that more often than not, frustrate your "honest" clientile, refuse to pass on your savings due to electronic distribution, and charge equal amount to download as to get in a car and by the CD at EBGames, and generally focus on the bad instead of the good.Again, looking at FSGenesis, I think Justin has provided the ultimate answer to the piracy question. Great Products, Good Service, Reasonable prices, and unbelievable customer loyalty.

[Gridley 257]

>If I witness piracy, I would tell the developer directly,>and let him decide which action to take.The important point which is being lost here is why should the developer believe an anonymous tipster? The abuse would come from false accusation, in many ways a more destructive crime, and impossible to police against with an "anonymous tip" service...Just my thoughts.sg

[oqvist 11]

For the record flight sim add ons already have the best protection of any PC games. And the hard truth is the pirates or hackers is always one step ahead so the question is if harder protection really benefit us customers or the developers. I mean is there any popular FS software which isn

[SAS263 1]

A very intersting and difficult subject that indeed has much to do about ethics and social behaviour.I think we can agree on many of the basic problems such as:1. Piracy has always existed in many shapes.2. Piracy will continue to exist regardless of what countermeasures are put on place, unless we end up in a extremely totalitarian state of affairs.3. Piracy is wrong, it

[bob.bernstein 0]

I once ran into a person on the internet that become enraged at me over nothing. He went so far as to accuse me of illegally signing him up for spam type inquiries. Of course I had not done that. Luckily the forum the guy used to declare me falsly guilty was one that already trusted me and therefore I was not harmed in anyway by this nutcase...but what is the chance that will always be the case?The last thing this world needs is ways folks can anonomously cause others grief. The fact that currently only valid inputs have been received is not good enough. Even if its not happened yet, anonomous accusations will be abused, people are just not trustworthy enough. Too many innocent people will be wronged, even if it only happens once.If folks want to expose criminals, let them do so publically and stand behind their accusations. That will allow the credibility of the accuser to be considered. Bob B

[bob.bernstein 0]

One mistake I make is to assume that Microsoft is the norm amongst software developers, I know its not. But......we also know that microsoft has made a sincere focus on protection.Isn't it a hoot to think that we're all now going to work to see that Microsoft isn't impacted by piracy...(they have 41 BILLION in cash at the moment). LOLSeems like they've done ok without help so far.I think too much is made of piracy. My belief is that pirates do not represent certain lost sales. I believe pirates are not paying customers that found an alternative way to get a product. I suspect if the pirates could be magically stopped, no appreciable impact to sales would occur. That because the pirates would simply not have the products, and would NOT be buying them. They'd be busy creating the way to beat the system that is stopping them from piracy. Bob Bernstein

[Guest Id Rather Be Flying]

"At $9.99 for a wide area mesh, I get what I feel is an incredible value. I don't see Justin fighting piracy that much, and even if there are warez sites available, that host it, most honest people buy from Justin because his products are of high quality, he offers free upgrades to people who purchase, and his prices are more than reasonable."Not only that, he also offers a DISCOUNT for MORE ITEMS added to cart. I got the whole US, Canada, Hawaii, and Southern America for dirt chirp. On top of it, there is NO protection either. I guarantee his model which is one I completely agree on for my own software is the absolute way to stay sane.The issue of course is when people/companies get greedy and just have no faith in their fellow man. Which means you and I the paying customer. It really is an insult to us not pirates. Funny how these authorizations and companies which we legitimately purchase from accuse us from being pirates. GUESS WHAT "IF I PURCHASE SOMETHING I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE IT AWAY!". The best words for the feelings I have about that to those people/companies is not mentionable here. But I would like to beat them 53 8" Floppy Discs & 2 Commodore 64 Cassettes and then install 1541 drives in their computers.And for the record, here is the REAL DEAL:If something gets pirated it is not a LOST SALE which is completely ignorant. It is that more people have it and that is ALL. The percentage of the people with pirated software that would ever BUY the item I GUARANTEE you is 1%. So wonderful, let's all start reporting the people we know and end up with liability and slander lawsuits to inconvenience everyone.Carmine http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/Images/wave.gif

[Guest Paragon]

This is what worries me the most, especially since it's anonymous. What's to stop someone from coming up with false claims about someone. I know you say it's easy to check whether or not there is anything behind the accusations...but were it me being accused, well that's one time too many. I know it's way out of proportion in this aspect, but people that have been wrongly accused of something, other than piracy, may never return to whatever they where doing before because of the implications that an accusation brings.

[Gridley 257]

>That is the base of democracy.The problem with democracy is that most people don't agree with me.:-lolBest,sg

[Guest CargoMun]

The way I see it, to end this whole mess of a problem. This report page should;A) Not be accepting anonymous reports - why would it even be accepted in the first place? Fear of reprecussions from a pimpled faced scriptkiddie cracker wannabe? Hardly think so.I repeat what I said earlier - anonymous tips and reporters makes me cringe - and this isnt a murder case or life threatening for God's sake nor is it even a court.:( Only accepting reports about websites as a whole - no one person singled out by either name or email.Just my

[crvm 0]

Thank all of you for keeping this thread civil. Again I support all fs developers and do desire to help them secure their sales potentials by making purchases of their products. My support is made through buying those products that spark my interest. As for ideas I think I have a few that could help in this area.1] Since most add-ons are sold *on-line* make softeware that periodically checks the computer it is installed on (stated clearly in the EULA of course).2] frequent security updates (say bi-monthly) to hamper crack artists and make it so difficult to be not worth their time to crack. Nothing fancy on the developer's part maybe obtain cracked versions and update accordingly. This could even run in the background once a month and be like windows update, if it has been tampered with have a code to disable the software. 3] Write code not solely based in the EXE file so regardless of mr cracker's messing the protection is *hidden* or placed somewhere that is not easy to get to or modify. A good example is a un named developer's gauge lockout where one cannot get into the gau with any known program to modify the software. Just some ideas, it's true it will never go away but working together maybe we can lesson it's effect...Any other ideas?Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | NEC LCD 1980SXi 19" | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro |

[Azapata87 173]

I agree with what some of you have said, theres nothing quite like purchasing something and not having to enter a bunch of activation codes or even a serial number. (pmdg, pss, Activesky and some others). Its not really good when a developer goes out of their way to try to make it as inconvenient for the paying customer as possible in order to try to make it impossible to pirate or crack their add-on. If all the piracy protection can be done behind the scenes unnoticeably then I'm all for it but if it involves activation codes, emails, etc. then no. You also have to realize, people who download an addon without paying for it probably would not have purchased it to begin with so it's not really lost revenue as much as it is unfair to the people who actually purchased it. Andrew

[Guest wathomas777]

One thing I find really ironic about this whole thing, is I would wager that a HUGE percentage of us are running FS9 with a no CD CRACK. They aren't "mentioned" in the boards, but we all find ways to find the latest one.Why? Because keeping the CD in the computer is so inconveinent AND we risk damage to our precious flight sim.So the very sites that we are supposed to "squeal" on, are the same sites that give us our precious "no cd cracks". Yet the NO-CD crack is usually an "accepted" transgression, since all of us here all own "legal" copies of flight simulator.The plain and simple truth is, honest people, will buy software that provides an excellent value to the dollar. Dishonest people will steal.I would much rather have developers make software that encourages the "honest" user, by ease of installation, fair value for the dollar, and customer support. The amount of dollars spent by overzealous "anti-piracy" developers only adds additional cost to the product, and cumbersome anti-piracy protection schemes that do little to stave off piracy, yet inconvenience the "honest" user to the n'th degree.I just hope that all of the zealous 'anti-piracy' crowd have gotten rid of their "no CD cracks" because we sure wouldn't want to download anything that "intentionally" circumvents any "copy protection scheme" no matter how cumbersome and troublesome it may be.