On 3/7/2017 at 6:33 PM, Bobsk8 said:

Got a general helicopter question. I enjoy flying the 407 with one exception, the pitch trim seems a bit wonky. The heli starts out level, but as speed is increased, the nose starts to pitch up, requiring forward pressure on the stick to hold level flight. This starts happening around 25+ knots which is rather slow/ There is a force trim feature in this heli, as well as a hat switch on top of the cyclic, but I find that the force trim doesn't seem to work at all, and the hat switch does work, but the moment you touch the cyclic, the trim you set in disappears and you are back to having to hold a great deal of forward pressure to maintain a decent cruising speed. It acts like a fixed wing aircraft with way to much nose up trim.

My question is, is this a typical issue with PC helicopters, and if it isn't, what would be a good model that doesn't have to be flown with constant forward pressure on the cyclic?  

 

 

Bob,

Yes it is typical for helicopters to require significant forward cyclic pressure in flight simulator. Microsoft did not include any cyclic trim and this has carried over to PD3V3. FSUIPC has the ability to add trim for helicopters; see the FSUIPC  advanced users guide.

The Milviz Bell 407 and MD 530 both have trim built into them. Just use the up down trim button on your joystick like you would for a fixed wing aircraft.

Greg

9 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

Milviz MD530, 1st class.

+1

Greg

4 hours ago, gregmorin said:

Bob,

Yes it is typical for helicopters to require significant forward cyclic pressure in flight simulator. Microsoft did not include any cyclic trim and this has carried over to PD3V3. FSUIPC has the ability to add trim for helicopters; see the FSUIPC  advanced users guide.

The Milviz Bell 407 and MD 530 both have trim built into them. Just use the up down trim button on your joystick like you would for a fixed wing aircraft.

Greg

 

I tried setting it up with FSUIPC, and the results are pretty sporadic. I can get the trim to adjust, but it isn't stable, sometimes pitching up, and then down with just click. I wound up using the built in trim on the Milviz 407, using the hat on top of the cyclic, but any movement of the cyclic, even touching the joystick, and the trim adjustment disappears and I am back out of trim again. not at all like a fixed wings trim behavior I am afraid. There is forced trim switch on the 407. but I can' get it to work, and the programmer for Milviz has no answer as to why. I suspect that since I am using FSUIPC for all my control settings, rather than P3D controls being active, that this may be the reason. It is still fun to fly, but I am not totally happy with the results. 

 

38 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I suspect that since I am using FSUIPC for all my control settings, rather than P3D controls being active, that this may be the reason

I think you are right. Using Pd3V3 button settings trim up trim down does work very well.

Greg

 

Anyway, I decided to swap my 407 for a MD530 this morning ( very nice of the dealer), and I like it much better. Much easier to control. First landing was spot on.  

3 hours ago, gregmorin said:

I think you are right. Using Pd3V3 button settings trim up trim down does work very well.

Greg

 

 

Question for you. Are you using P3D controls menu to set your controls for the helicopter, or FSUIPC? I am assuming since you say that the P3D trim controls work, that you are not using FSUIPC to set your heli controls. Problem I have with not using FSUIPC, is that the Heli control and fixed wing controls are different for throttle, prop pitch and mixture, so without FSUIPC specific for aircraft settings, I would have to keep changing them when going from fixed wing to Heli. 

9 hours ago, gregmorin said:

+1

Greg

Plus another one and another Greg

Also a great way to tour your favorite airports and plane spot! Watch your weight, torque and ITT. Engine will quit. The upside is great auto rotation after engine out...modeled very well!

Have fun!

Greg

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

 

Question for you. Are you using P3D controls menu to set your controls for the helicopter, or FSUIPC? I am assuming since you say that the P3D trim controls work, that you are not using FSUIPC to set your heli controls. Problem I have with not using FSUIPC, is that the Heli control and fixed wing controls are different for throttle, prop pitch and mixture, so without FSUIPC specific for aircraft settings, I would have to keep changing them when going from fixed wing to Heli. 

Bob

I have real world RW time. They way Microsoft manages RW flight in not the way it is manged in real life. In flight simulator the functions of the throttle are really ignored. They assume a fully governed  throttle and your joy stick throttle is really controlling the collective action. In a Bell 407, which has a rotary throttle, when you add pitch by pulling up on the collective you would also have to add power by increasing throttle and counter the increased torque with the pedals. In PD3V3 the throttle is acting as the collective and throttle at the same time. You control how much power you have by monitoring the torque gauge. I use exactly the same settings on my PFC Cirrus yoke and throttle to fly both fixed and rotary wing aircraft in PD3V3. In real life I would control the cyclic with my right hand the collective and throttle with my left and feet on the anti torque pedals. Movement of any control requires movement in all the others. Not so in flight simulator. If you think of yoke for cyclic and throttle for power and pitch it will help. Do not touch the prop or mixture controls. Keep the nose straight with the pedals and have fun. Eventually it will be part of your muscle memory and you will make the right control adjustments with out thinking about it. 

Hope this helps,

 

Greg

 

 

3 hours ago, gregmorin said:

Bob

I have real world RW time. They way Microsoft manages RW flight in not the way it is manged in real life. In flight simulator the functions of the throttle are really ignored. They assume a fully governed  throttle and your joy stick throttle is really controlling the collective action. In a Bell 407, which has a rotary throttle, when you add pitch by pulling up on the collective you would also have to add power by increasing throttle and counter the increased torque with the pedals. In PD3V3 the throttle is acting as the collective and throttle at the same time. You control how much power you have by monitoring the torque gauge. I use exactly the same settings on my PFC Cirrus yoke and throttle to fly both fixed and rotary wing aircraft in PD3V3. In real life I would control the cyclic with my right hand the collective and throttle with my left and feet on the anti torque pedals. Movement of any control requires movement in all the others. Not so in flight simulator. If you think of yoke for cyclic and throttle for power and pitch it will help. Do not touch the prop or mixture controls. Keep the nose straight with the pedals and have fun. Eventually it will be part of your muscle memory and you will make the right control adjustments with out thinking about it. 

Hope this helps,

 

Greg

 

 

Got the trim sorted out, and flew the 530 for about 2 hours already and love it. Glad I made the switch from the 407. Thanks for the tips...

For Albin, Ron and Bob. Up to 4K rez on a great chopper!

Greg

 

What is the trick to starting the 530, with many attempts?

Hi Bob! Startup is tricky...here is a great vid for manual startup 

however for my vid I cheated by control+shift+F1 to shut down then control+E to start. Without a Hotas setup, manual start is difficult...

15 hours ago, RockStarofRust said:

Hi Bob! Startup is tricky...here is a great vid for manual startup 

however for my vid I cheated by control+shift+F1 to shut down then control+E to start. Without a Hotas setup, manual start is difficult...

 

I got the Macro recommended at the end of the video for pressing the start button. Makes starting much easier. I still am not happy with the amount of forward cyclic used to cruise, and have tried every method possible to try and trim pitch, and have come to the conclusion that I will just have to get used to it. 

As I understand it the MD530 does not have a force trim function in RL. That's why, if you use a Warthog stick, your right arm aches like buggery after a half hour! It's 'hands on' all the time, no nipping out for a pee with this baby.

 

There is a freeware helicopter autopilot available:

http://www.dirkfassbender.de/autopilot.html

Probably not totally realistic but very helpful on longer flights.