Albin

Best helicopter for p3d

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I looking for a helicopter for p3d that is good modelled as a pmdg plane. Any ideas?

What do you recommend?

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That's too high a bar (PMDG). Hovercontrol has some well modeled rotocraft but they are designed for FSX. Jordan Moores's 412 is the best of the lot and does work with P3d. The Dodosim 206 will run in P3d V3 also. The best of the truly P3d compatible helis is the Milviz Huey redux. That models the flight characteristics faithfully and is TacPack aware, if you also like to shoot at things.

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That's too high a bar (PMDG). Hovercontrol has some well modeled rotocraft but they are designed for FSX. Jordan Moores's 412 is the best of the lot and does work with P3d. The Dodosim 206 will run in P3d V3 also. The best of the truly P3d compatible helis is the Milviz Huey redux. That models the flight characteristics faithfully and is TacPack aware, if you also like to shoot at things.

 

What do you need as controllers to fly these helis? I used to fly Rc Copters, and have flown twice in real life in an R22, so I know a little about copter flying. 

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The limitations of FSX AND P3D's ability to replicate rotary-winged flight mean that you're going to be hard pressed to find something in rotary winged form that is as faithfully modeled as PMDG do their fixed-wing products.

But, that said, there are some very well done choppers for FS. Ones which are worth a look which will work in P3D include:

Flysimware's Bell 47/H-13 Sioux, which is well done and isn't too expensive either, and unlike most choppers which get modeled for FS, isn't a gas turbine:

https://www.justflight.com/product/flysimware-bell-47g-and-h13

Dodosim's Bell 206 JetRanger II is listed as being for FSX only, although it is my understanding that it can be made to work in P3D. It is very well modeled in terms of flight characteristics and systems (within what can be done in FS for helicopters) and has the advantage of a scaleable flight/realism model (five settings if I recall correctly), which goes from really hard to fly without some good hardware controllers, to nice and forgiving. It also has something akin to A2A's 'accusim' system, in that it accrues damage and wear and tear over time which requires you to 'service' it (although this can be turned off if you like).

http://www.dodosim.com/fsx206.html

As noted in a prior post, Milviz's Huey is very good too, and gives you the two main UH-1 variants:

http://milviz.com/flight/products/UH-1_redux/index.php

If you want some good fun by the way. Flysimware's Super Huey offers a lot of entertainment:

https://www.justflight.com/product/flysimware-super-huey

Outside of P3D, if you also have FSX or FSX-SE, Ones which are not 'officially P3D capable', but might be able to be made to work in it, but which will certainly work in FSX include:

Aerosoft's Huey, which is another good contender for reasonably good realism:

http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/us/iboshop.cgi?showd,,11333

You might also want to check out some products from Area 51/Virtavia/CERA/Nemeth Designs. They are not always 100 percent accurate in terms of modeling every switch in the cockpit, but they are generally very good 3D models of some famous military and civilian choppers such as the UH-1N Venom, CH-47 Chinook, UH-60 Blackhawk, OH-58 Kiowa Warrior (fun if you merge it with the DodoSim Bell 206), MD-500 Defender, AH-64 Apache, MH-53J Pavelow, Mil Mi-24D 'Hind' etc. Not all of these will work in P3D (so check before deciding to buy if that's where you want em, but many of them will):

http://www.flightsimstore.com/index.php?cPath=2_82_83_89

What you need to be sure of more than anything, is what it is you personally rate in terms of what you are looking for, i.e. do you want every switch working? Do you want things such as VRS (vortex ring state) behaviour modeled? The possibility of hot starts? Do you wanna shoot at stuff? working winches? etc.

 

It's worth noting too that beyond VRS Tac Pac compatibility, which many warplanes for FS incorporate, another option which can be made to work on pretty much any aircraft in FS, is Captain Sim's Weapon for FS. So if you do want to give your helicopters some teeth, that's not a bad option:

 

https://www.captainsim.com/products/w001/

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HTR works for p3d (if fsuipc works, HTR should work) so rotorcraft fde isn't bound to garbage fsx based fde.  there are many HTR profiles for top-notch cera models.
 

 

 

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What do you need as controllers to fly these helis? I used to fly Rc Copters, and have flown twice in real life in an R22, so I know a little about copter flying.

 

I'd suggest a HOTAS system like the Thrustmaster Warthog. I use a Saitek X65F. It is possible to use a yoke-based setup, but it takes a little imagination or as fictions writers say, "suspension of disbelief". I'd also recommend rudder pedals for more realism.

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Well, default Virtavia Sikorsky H-60 Blackhawk is just fine. :P

 

On more serious note... I agree that CeraSim AS365 Dauphin is one cool bird.

AS350 is just as good. I believe this one is from Nemeth bros.

 

If you're into military then you will like a AH-64D Apache Longbow by Virtavia.

And/or Kamov Ka-50 'Black Shark', Virtavia too.

I love this one tiny bird too - OH-58D Kiowa Warrior by Area51. :wub:

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Got the Milviz Bell 407 yesterday and already having a blast flying it around. 

 

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I like the Alabeo R66 for its nearly unobstructed panoramic views out of the cockpit.

I cannot profoundly comment on how realistic the flight dynamics and systems are though.

 

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Got a general helicopter question. I enjoy flying the 407 with one exception, the pitch trim seems a bit wonky. The heli starts out level, but as speed is increased, the nose starts to pitch up, requiring forward pressure on the stick to hold level flight. This starts happening around 25+ knots which is rather slow/ There is a force trim feature in this heli, as well as a hat switch on top of the cyclic, but I find that the force trim doesn't seem to work at all, and the hat switch does work, but the moment you touch the cyclic, the trim you set in disappears and you are back to having to hold a great deal of forward pressure to maintain a decent cruising speed. It acts like a fixed wing aircraft with way to much nose up trim.

My question is, is this a typical issue with PC helicopters, and if it isn't, what would be a good model that doesn't have to be flown with constant forward pressure on the cyclic?  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

requiring forward pressure on the stick to hold level flight.

The amount can vary and would be largely up for debate on accuracy (we are dealing with FSX-based helicopter flight modeling, after all), but in order to maintain forward flight in a helicopter without any assists such as cyclic trim, yes, you will have to maintain some sort of forward pressure on the cyclic.

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I'd like to throw in the MP DESIGN STUDIO - AEROSPATIALE GAZELLE SA342 FSX P3D. I always detested helicopters in FSX (except for the Dodo sim) and now that I've been running P3D I never even entertained the thought, but reading this thread I went on hunt and stumbled on the Gazelle by MP Design. For 15 Euro or about 16 US and some pennies, I thought what the heck.

I didn't read the manual, but I found some discussions on the net concerning it and was intent on taking a chance. Exterior is nothing to brag about (and I don't think anyone has put out repaints for it) But the interior is mighty fine. It's outfitted with the Gazelle's SAS (stabilazation system) - I didn't even use that, VOR capability and a small garmin. 

I used to use A2A's cub to check out new installed sceneries but now I will use this. Now, I'm not comparing apples to apples here, but I'm a long time user of the DCS series and mostly fly all of the choppers available for DCS and there is a Gazelle sa342 in DCS, so I knew something about it. Expecting the usual junk flight model for a helo in FSX and now P3D, I was totally surprised. Stick and rudder action was really close to DCS Gazelle and cyclic use was clean and stable. One thing about the Gazelle, it's light weight agile and as any other chopper you make one adjustment and you've got at least two others to make. (no rudder peddles, you might just forget it) 

I'm not rich, but for 15 Euro, I'm pleased that I donated that to SimMarket. Surprisingly there is not on Shift + x key available but with the flight model it has, it doesn't matter. 

I haven't flown the Dodo sim in about 4 or so years, but seems like this is pretty much par with that one, from what I can remember. (my biggest problem was not figuring out how to shut the thing down, but like I mentioned I didn't read the manual before the 1st short flight)

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On 3/7/2017 at 6:33 PM, Bobsk8 said:

Got a general helicopter question. I enjoy flying the 407 with one exception, the pitch trim seems a bit wonky. The heli starts out level, but as speed is increased, the nose starts to pitch up, requiring forward pressure on the stick to hold level flight. This starts happening around 25+ knots which is rather slow/ There is a force trim feature in this heli, as well as a hat switch on top of the cyclic, but I find that the force trim doesn't seem to work at all, and the hat switch does work, but the moment you touch the cyclic, the trim you set in disappears and you are back to having to hold a great deal of forward pressure to maintain a decent cruising speed. It acts like a fixed wing aircraft with way to much nose up trim.

My question is, is this a typical issue with PC helicopters, and if it isn't, what would be a good model that doesn't have to be flown with constant forward pressure on the cyclic?  

 

 

Bob,

Yes it is typical for helicopters to require significant forward cyclic pressure in flight simulator. Microsoft did not include any cyclic trim and this has carried over to PD3V3. FSUIPC has the ability to add trim for helicopters; see the FSUIPC  advanced users guide.

The Milviz Bell 407 and MD 530 both have trim built into them. Just use the up down trim button on your joystick like you would for a fixed wing aircraft.

Greg

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9 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

Milviz MD530, 1st class.

+1

Greg

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4 hours ago, gregmorin said:

Bob,

Yes it is typical for helicopters to require significant forward cyclic pressure in flight simulator. Microsoft did not include any cyclic trim and this has carried over to PD3V3. FSUIPC has the ability to add trim for helicopters; see the FSUIPC  advanced users guide.

The Milviz Bell 407 and MD 530 both have trim built into them. Just use the up down trim button on your joystick like you would for a fixed wing aircraft.

Greg

 

I tried setting it up with FSUIPC, and the results are pretty sporadic. I can get the trim to adjust, but it isn't stable, sometimes pitching up, and then down with just click. I wound up using the built in trim on the Milviz 407, using the hat on top of the cyclic, but any movement of the cyclic, even touching the joystick, and the trim adjustment disappears and I am back out of trim again. not at all like a fixed wings trim behavior I am afraid. There is forced trim switch on the 407. but I can' get it to work, and the programmer for Milviz has no answer as to why. I suspect that since I am using FSUIPC for all my control settings, rather than P3D controls being active, that this may be the reason. It is still fun to fly, but I am not totally happy with the results. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I suspect that since I am using FSUIPC for all my control settings, rather than P3D controls being active, that this may be the reason

I think you are right. Using Pd3V3 button settings trim up trim down does work very well.

Greg

 

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Anyway, I decided to swap my 407 for a MD530 this morning ( very nice of the dealer), and I like it much better. Much easier to control. First landing was spot on.  :biggrin:

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3 hours ago, gregmorin said:

I think you are right. Using Pd3V3 button settings trim up trim down does work very well.

Greg

 

 

Question for you. Are you using P3D controls menu to set your controls for the helicopter, or FSUIPC? I am assuming since you say that the P3D trim controls work, that you are not using FSUIPC to set your heli controls. Problem I have with not using FSUIPC, is that the Heli control and fixed wing controls are different for throttle, prop pitch and mixture, so without FSUIPC specific for aircraft settings, I would have to keep changing them when going from fixed wing to Heli. 

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9 hours ago, gregmorin said:

+1

Greg

Plus another one and another Greg:cool:

Also a great way to tour your favorite airports and plane spot! Watch your weight, torque and ITT. Engine will quit. The upside is great auto rotation after engine out...modeled very well!

Have fun!

Greg

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1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

 

Question for you. Are you using P3D controls menu to set your controls for the helicopter, or FSUIPC? I am assuming since you say that the P3D trim controls work, that you are not using FSUIPC to set your heli controls. Problem I have with not using FSUIPC, is that the Heli control and fixed wing controls are different for throttle, prop pitch and mixture, so without FSUIPC specific for aircraft settings, I would have to keep changing them when going from fixed wing to Heli. 

Bob

I have real world RW time. They way Microsoft manages RW flight in not the way it is manged in real life. In flight simulator the functions of the throttle are really ignored. They assume a fully governed  throttle and your joy stick throttle is really controlling the collective action. In a Bell 407, which has a rotary throttle, when you add pitch by pulling up on the collective you would also have to add power by increasing throttle and counter the increased torque with the pedals. In PD3V3 the throttle is acting as the collective and throttle at the same time. You control how much power you have by monitoring the torque gauge. I use exactly the same settings on my PFC Cirrus yoke and throttle to fly both fixed and rotary wing aircraft in PD3V3. In real life I would control the cyclic with my right hand the collective and throttle with my left and feet on the anti torque pedals. Movement of any control requires movement in all the others. Not so in flight simulator. If you think of yoke for cyclic and throttle for power and pitch it will help. Do not touch the prop or mixture controls. Keep the nose straight with the pedals and have fun. Eventually it will be part of your muscle memory and you will make the right control adjustments with out thinking about it. 

Hope this helps,

 

Greg

 

 

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3 hours ago, gregmorin said:

Bob

I have real world RW time. They way Microsoft manages RW flight in not the way it is manged in real life. In flight simulator the functions of the throttle are really ignored. They assume a fully governed  throttle and your joy stick throttle is really controlling the collective action. In a Bell 407, which has a rotary throttle, when you add pitch by pulling up on the collective you would also have to add power by increasing throttle and counter the increased torque with the pedals. In PD3V3 the throttle is acting as the collective and throttle at the same time. You control how much power you have by monitoring the torque gauge. I use exactly the same settings on my PFC Cirrus yoke and throttle to fly both fixed and rotary wing aircraft in PD3V3. In real life I would control the cyclic with my right hand the collective and throttle with my left and feet on the anti torque pedals. Movement of any control requires movement in all the others. Not so in flight simulator. If you think of yoke for cyclic and throttle for power and pitch it will help. Do not touch the prop or mixture controls. Keep the nose straight with the pedals and have fun. Eventually it will be part of your muscle memory and you will make the right control adjustments with out thinking about it. 

Hope this helps,

 

Greg

 

 

Got the trim sorted out, and flew the 530 for about 2 hours already and love it. Glad I made the switch from the 407. Thanks for the tips...

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