Paraffin

Options to adjust the haze layer?

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I've been trying to avoid too many tweaks to the vanilla XP11 betas, but the haze is finally getting to me. I just finished a FSEconomy flight in pb15 set to clear skies at noon and 25 mile visibility, and I had trouble picking up a small airstrip through the haze until I was just 8 miles away. It's ridiculous... it looks like there is a huge forest fire nearby, filling the air with smoke. And yes, as an ex commercial aerial photographer I know some haze is always in the air, but not like this. The haze seems to be even thicker in the last couple of betas, but maybe I'm imagining it. 

The visibility slider in the weather menu should clear the air, at least in the immediate vicinity. But a higher viz setting doesn't clear out the haze near the plane. There doesn't seem to be a way to recreate the look of areas in the world with very low humidity/air pollution, or what it looks like just after a strong cold front moves through and clears out the air. It's smoky everywhere in the world.

So, what is the simplest current method to reduce the haze effect, without touching anything else like clouds or sky colors? Is there a FlywithLua script or something that does that? I don't want a full-blown replacement like Better Sky, and I've sidelined XEnviro and SkyMaxx Pro for now, while experimenting with the new default clouds (IIRC, XEnviro does reduce the haze). I've poked around various threads about datarefs, but a lot of that was for older beta versions where people were trying to fix clouds, which is less of an issue now post pb14.

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1 minute ago, Paraffin said:

I've been trying to avoid too many tweaks to the vanilla XP11 betas, but the haze is finally getting to me. I just finished a FSEconomy flight in pb15 set to clear skies at noon and 25 mile visibility, and I had trouble picking up a small airstrip through the haze until I was just 8 miles away. It's ridiculous... it looks like there is a huge forest fire nearby, filling the air with smoke. And yes, as an ex commercial aerial photographer I know some haze is always in the air, but not like this. The haze seems to be even thicker in the last couple of betas, but maybe I'm imagining it. 

The visibility slider in the weather menu should clear the air, at least in the immediate vicinity. But a higher viz setting doesn't clear out the haze near the plane. There doesn't seem to be a way to recreate the look of areas in the world with very low humidity/air pollution, or what it looks like just after a strong cold front moves through and clears out the air. It's smoky everywhere in the world.

So, what is the simplest current method to reduce the haze effect, without touching anything else like clouds or sky colors? Is there a FlywithLua script or something that does that? I don't want a full-blown replacement like Better Sky, and I've sidelined XEnviro and SkyMaxx Pro for now, while experimenting with the new default clouds (IIRC, XEnviro does reduce the haze). I've poked around various threads about datarefs, but a lot of that was for older beta versions where people were trying to fix clouds, which is less of an issue now post pb14.

Hi check reshade in the below link, the medium or stronger toning preset seems to clear the haze around the plane

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36509-reshade-version-304-xp11/

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36592-presets-for-reshade/

Also a gradual visibility change lua fix here

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36662-gradual-visibility-change-ifr-improvement/

 

 

 

 

 

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Default 

33mskm0.jpg

 

Reshade "medium toning preset" or you could create your own preset

24cf81g.jpg

 

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It might be well worth pointing out to LR over and over that their haze is overdone. Maybe XP10 was too clear, but all those greyish screen shots look pretty bad in my mind. No way does a sunny summer day look like this, even less after a cold front passing.

I use reshade, too, to get.rid of it. Unfortunately it crases while closing XP11 but I am afraid I'll have to live with this.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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11 minutes ago, pmb said:

It might be well worth pointing out to LR over and over that their haze is overdone. Maybe XP10 was too clear, but all those greyish screen shots look pretty bad in my mind. No way does a sunny summer day look like this, even less after a cold front passing.

I use reshade, too, to get.rid of it. Unfortunately it crases while closing XP11 but I am afraid I'll have to live with this.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Depending on what part of the world you live, it is possible to see haze like this.  The LA basin is a great example, as well as areas with cool and humid conditions.  i know when I use ASN, and you set your visibility range, it'll act about the same, which helps blend the horizon a little better to avoid the hard line you could see in the sim, between the earth and the sky.

 

It should also be noted that LR isn't going to please everyone, so their take on the horizon haze is averaged to create something out there for everyone to see.  Whether you choose a Lua script, or a 3rd party add-on, you all have choices, but let's not bash LR for getting it wrong, because everyone sees what they see and has their own opinions.

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1 hour ago, Jimm said:

Depending on what part of the world you live, it is possible to see haze like this.  The LA basin is a great example, as well as areas with cool and humid 

It should also be noted that LR isn't going to please everyone, so their take on the horizon haze is averaged to create something out there for everyone to see.  

I was about to name Beijing but thought some people might find it discriminating. Yes, of course there are such regions. However, a clear summer day where I live doesn't have nearly that amount of haze. although we have XP11-like conditions from time to time, too.

I don't mind the possibility to activate haze, but in my mind the sim itself should have a possibility to control its amount. I would have preferred an optional "Advanced Settings" menu with several of the XP10 options, too.

Kind regards, Michael

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20 minutes ago, pmb said:

I was about to name Beijing but thought some people might find it discriminating. Yes, of course there are such regions. However, a clear summer day where I live doesn't have nearly that amount of haze. although we have XP11-like conditions from time to time, too.

I don't mind the possibility to activate haze, but in my mind the sim itself should have a possibility to control its amount. I would have preferred an optional "Advanced Settings" menu with several of the XP10 options, too.

Kind regards, Michael

I could get on board with that.  It's a bit contradictory, in my opinion, to select CAVOK weather, yet still have a haze.  I've had the opportunity to see a clear day, actually several when i lived in Denver, CO.  Outside of that, a little haze just adds a bit of realism, not too perfect, you know?

When you consider the countless areas of the world where haze is typical, it's usually due to dust and smoke particles in the air that get trapped in moisture.  Low wind currents help that moisture "hang", as well as increased temperatures.  I've lived in many urban areas, and smog and dirty air are pretty common.

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4 hours ago, pilot83 said:

Thanks, I'll check out that lua fix. I'm reluctant to mess with Reshade because that seems like a more drastic change, but I'll try it if the lua fix doesn't work.
 

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4 hours ago, pmb said:

It might be well worth pointing out to LR over and over that their haze is overdone. Maybe XP10 was too clear, but all those greyish screen shots look pretty bad in my mind. No way does a sunny summer day look like this, even less after a cold front passing.

Yeah, I spent many years in light planes and helicopters shooting commercial aerial photography from the right seat, with the door off. Granted, those were CAVU days, because the client won't spend the money if the conditions aren't that good. Also, it was mainly in South Florida, the Caribbean, and Central & South America where air pollution haze isn't a problem, but you do get humidity haze down there.

Regardless, even with humidity haze it's not as bad as in the current XP11 betas. Up here in the Pacific Northwest where I live now, we get some days after a cold front where the clear air and long distance views to distant mountains like Baker and Rainier are just amazing. There's no way to simulate that in current XP11 betas.

I know Laminar has a lot on their plate getting XP11 out the door, and they can't have a single viz model that represents every possible condition. But what kills me is that there *is* a visibility slider in the sim, and at the higher settings it just doesn't clear the air! No matter how high you put it, it looks like you're flying in the vicinity of a major forest fire. 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help. Keep those tweaks coming, if there's any new info about how to correct this, as the betas move forward to final release. 

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1 minute ago, Paraffin said:

But what kills me is that there *is* a visibility slider in the sim, and at the higher settings it just doesn't clear the air! No matter how high you put it, it looks like you're flying in the vicinity of a major forest fire

One word: bug report. :biggrin:

I'm sure with their plate being full with trying to ensure the flight models are solid, that they'll get to the weather later.  If it helps, i miss the sun and moon too.

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I made some screen shots to show the problem, and i'll submit these as a bug report (although who knows if it's a "bug" if Laminar likes this effect). This is the Carenado PC-12 at 10 miles from KBAB, noon under a clear sky. 

XP11-Haze-01.jpg

XP11-Haze-02.jpg

XP11-Haze-03.jpg

XP11-Haze-04.jpg

 

 

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Over done haze is not good - should only be there when its suppose to be - hope they sort it out - looks silly

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Thanks Paraffin, I think your shots make it pretty clear, although my hopes for improvement are limited. As already stated, the best solution might be to give the user more control over the haze. If not, I expect some 3rd parties (xEnviro or the like) to take the opportunity to work on this.

Kind regards, Michael

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Since I am still having difficulty sharing my screenshots at their intended size, I have included a link to a Google Drive folder:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2NiacfrHFltWFRVWEowQzJFLVE?usp=sharing

The four images were taken from KSAN (MisterX6's new update) at a high enough altitude to show the view distance, which was specified as pure CAVOK (CAVU) weather.  I made sure that no clouds, max visibility was set.  From what I see (and you can see from the screenshots), I saw very limited haze, and for what there is of it, it is very minimal, at least not to the extent shown by Parafin.

*It should be noted that I duplicated the time and condition within my sim to match Parafin's, so it was 12 noon, clear sky, max visibility (only goes to 100 miles).*

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Just a tidbit of information, concerning our friend haze:

http://questions.x-plane.com/8328/the-haze-fog-is-back

Just for giggles, last evening after I posted my shots of the KSAN area, I tooled up sunny California to visit KBAB, and attempted to replicate Parafin's predicament (sounds like the title of a western), and I did in fact see an increase in haze, but so much further out away from KBAB than what he had showed.  now, I am not disputing his claims, nor am I disputing the screenshots.  After posting my initial findings, I started to look into the whole haze generation thing, factoring temperature in, and there appeared to be a distinct difference between the two areas, even though bother were specified as CAVOK in the weather settings.  I do wonder if it's was possible for LR to include temperature as factor in determining haze amounts.

I also find it interesting that we now have three distinct weather generators for X-Plane, them being SMP v4, X-Enviro, and native Xp11.  I am sure all of them get reliable METAR data, but how they interpret and render the data is really at the heart of the matter.  You would think that by now, LR would have a handle on weather generation, as it is the second most important component to any flight simulator.  For now, I continue to investigate, with my next destination being Lukla.

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