Recommended Posts

Can I just check on something! I have just noticed on the ATC tab in MCE and when using PF3 that the option for the FO to handle comms when busy is now selectable. 

Can someone confirm this is option is now available, and how do I make use of this function, like commands I need to give etc.

Cheers Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

32 minutes ago, Helix1250 said:

Can I just check on something! I have just noticed on the ATC tab in MCE and when using PF3 that the option for the FO to handle comms when busy is now selectable. 

Can someone confirm this is option is now available, and how do I make use of this function, like commands I need to give etc.

Cheers Rob

Not yet, but in next update, you'll be able to use the same commands as with Native ATC.

"You handle the radio"

"your radio"

 

"my radio"

"I look after ATC"

....

MCE will then switch to the correct VCP mode. Either 0 (when you handle it) or Mode 2 (FO has the COMMS)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errr! I have a problem then!

i have PFE/PF3 selected and activated and also the option for FO to handle radios checked (see attached picture)

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Helix1250 said:

Errr! I have a problem then!

i have PFE/PF3 selected and activated and also the option for FO to handle radios checked (see attached picture)

Rob

He probably meant that despite you can click it, this has no function yet.

 

2 hours ago, FS++ said:

Not yet, but in next update, you'll be able to use the same commands as with Native ATC.

"You handle the radio"

"your radio"

 

"my radio"

"I look after ATC"

....

MCE will then switch to the correct VCP mode. Either 0 (when you handle it) or Mode 2 (FO has the COMMS)

 

Sounds promising.

Will the FO be able to talk to PF3-ATC with his own MCE-voice (instead of using the PF3-voice)? Also preventing simultaneously talking to ATC and for example reading a checklist at the same time?

 

Just switching between the PF3 VCP modes 0 and 2 can already now be done with a simple voicescript containing a (doubled) voxkey command for the PF3-VCP-Mode-Hotkey.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Previously that option was not selectable, but it's been awhile since I specifically looked at that feature.

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Sounds promising.

Will the FO be able to talk to PF3-ATC with his own MCE-voice (instead of using the PF3-voice)? Also preventing simultaneously talking to ATC and for example reading a checklist at the same time?

 

Not sure with recorded human voices, but should be doable with TTS voices at the very least.

Having the switching done in MCE is more accurate because it can read the current VCP mode and would increment as many times as necessary in order to switch it to the correct mode,instead of assuming it requires X VCP hotkey presses in succession.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, FS++ said:

Not sure with recorded human voices, but should be doable with TTS voices at the very least.

That would be awesome! :biggrin:

 

9 minutes ago, FS++ said:

Having the switching done in MCE is more accurate because it can read the current VCP mode and would increment as many times as necessary in order to switch it to the correct mode,instead of assuming it requires X VCP hotkey presses in succession.

 

Agreed! But since I only use VCP mode 0 and 2 it is always two hotkey presses to switch between them for me. :dry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 7:21 PM, RALF9636 said:

That would be awesome! :biggrin:

 

Agreed! But since I only use VCP mode 0 and 2 it is always two hotkey presses to switch between them for me. :dry:

Assuming you use DEL key to mute pilot transmitting on your behalf, how do you do that. In which oder do you press the keys.

Do you have to keep DEL key down or just toggle it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FS++ said:

Assuming you use DEL key to mute pilot transmitting on your behalf, how do you do that. In which oder do you press the keys.

Do you have to keep DEL key down or just toggle it?

 

I assume you are talking about the PF3-PTT hotkey here.

I have that PF3-hotkey (doesn't matter which key is chosen) assigned to the MCE-PTT joystickbutton with FSUIPC as single press. PF3 detects this hotkey press (while MCE detects the PTT button being held down) and then (with the new Automute Feature activated) skips the next PF3 pilot's voice transmission if another PF3 hotkey is pressed within a given time (configurable in the options, I have set it to 20 seconds).

So no need to hold the PF3-PTT hotkey down. It just has to be pressed within the given time to the following hotkey sent by MCE triggered by the voice command. In that case the according pilot's voice transmission of PF3 will not be played.

I hope this is what you were asking for.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, just to update everyone on this.

We are currently revamping the PF3 interfacing.

Here is a proposal for what we think is a better implementation.

Once update is released, unless you need to use PF3 co-pilot specific voice, in which case you can trigger the VCP mode manually, the preferred way is for MCE to completely disable FO and switch "Pilot voice" option off, so there is nobody transmitting on your behalf. No need to setup "PF3 mute" either.

Thanks to the flexibility built-into MCE voice packs, I can confirm, even our FO recorded voices can handle replies and requests.

Basically, when on ground, you either transmit yourself or ask FO to make a request.

This will prevent FO asking for taxi or takeoff when you aren't ready for instance.

You can hand over ATC to FO or take over, without PF3 being involved. 

One requirement is to have "Closed captions" enabled. That way, FO can see the clearance and acknowledge when he's got the comms or when you fail to do so after a pre-defined amount of time (option FO can take over ... enabled).

We also, found the reason why MCE wasn't working with the PF3 Demo.

Update coming out within a couple of weeks.

Suggestions welcome.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys, this sounds awesome and the bees knees!!😀🤗

Stuart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, FS++ said:

OK, just to update everyone on this.

We are currently revamping the PF3 interfacing.

Here is a proposal for what we think is a better implementation.

Once update is released, unless you need to use PF3 co-pilot specific voice, in which case you can trigger the VCP mode manually, the preferred way is for MCE to completely disable FO and switch "Pilot voice" option off, so there is nobody transmitting on your behalf. No need to setup "PF3 mute" either.

Thanks to the flexibility built-into MCE voice packs, I can confirm, even our FO recorded voices can handle replies and requests.

Basically, when on ground, you either transmit yourself or ask FO to make a request.

This will prevent FO asking for taxi or takeoff when you aren't ready for instance.

You can hand over ATC to FO or take over, without PF3 being involved. 

One requirement is to have "Closed captions" enabled. That way, FO can see the clearance and acknowledge when he's got the comms or when you fail to do so after a pre-defined amount of time (option FO can take over ... enabled).

We also, found the reason why MCE wasn't working with the PF3 Demo.

Update coming out within a couple of weeks.

Suggestions welcome.

 

 

 

Sounds great!

 

So in PF3 the VCP mode will always be set to "0" and the pilot's voice to "none", correct?

And MCE then resembles the VCP modes with its own means, setting the frequencies (VCP 1), talking to ATC (VCP 2) and setting the Autopilot (VCP 3)?

 

Suggestion:

To go beyond these VCP modes there could be three free configurable elements of the the "VCP-Mode":

1. Setting the frequencies ("you / I set the Radio")

2. Talking to ATC "(You / I have ATC")

3. Setting the Autopilot ("You / I set the Autopilot").

So any of these combinations would be possible, allowing for example for talking to ATC yourself while the FO is setting the Autopilot accordingly.

 

What I don't really like would be the need to have "Close Captions" enabled. Currently I always have those disabled because the always appearing text takes away from the immersion significantly for me.

Maybe there is another way?

The ATC transmissions are also displayed in the "ATC Log Window" (with the appropriate "Say again"-Setting). This window can be kept open in the background, so it does not disturb. Maybe MCE can read from there?

Also all ATC transmissions are logged in the debug_monitor.log file. Maybe MCE can alternatively read from that file?

 

Let me know if I can be of any help.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

 

Sounds great!

 

So in PF3 the VCP mode will always be set to "0" and the pilot's voice to "none", correct?

As soon as MCE sees PF3 is connected to the sim, it will set VCP mode to 0 and won't touch it anymore.

And MCE then resembles the VCP modes with its own means, setting the frequencies (VCP 1), talking to ATC (VCP 2) and setting the Autopilot (VCP 3)?

Setting frequencies and autopilot assumes user is going to enable the Crew feature. 

Assuming FO can see the captions, he'll be able to determine what to dial, and eventually contact next controller.

Will probably leave out the auto-pilot auto-adjustment for now and you can just give direct commands to FO to set anything in MCP as you normally do.

Suggestion:

To go beyond these VCP modes there could be three free configurable elements of the the "VCP-Mode":

1. Setting the frequencies ("you / I set the Radio")

2. Talking to ATC "(You / I have ATC")

3. Setting the Autopilot ("You / I set the Autopilot").

So any of these combinations would be possible, allowing for example for talking to ATC yourself while the FO is setting the Autopilot accordingly.

You could take over ATC or hand it to FO at any time. PF3 doesn't need to be aware who is in charge.

When ready for ATC clearance, you either request it yourself or ask FO "obtain ATC clearance" (or other alternative command)

When ready to taxi, either ask yourself or ask FO "request taxi clearance" (or other alternative command).

If you told him to handle ATC, he'd automatically reply when he sees controller transmission caption, otherwise, he expects you to do that. Could eventually tell him "Reply to ATC"

What I don't really like would be the need to have "Close Captions" enabled. Currently I always have those disabled because the always appearing text takes away from the immersion significantly for me.

Maybe there is another way?

The ATC transmissions are also displayed in the "ATC Log Window" (with the appropriate "Say again"-Setting). This window can be kept open in the background, so it does not disturb. Maybe MCE can read from there?

Also all ATC transmissions are logged in the debug_monitor.log file. Maybe MCE can alternatively read from that file?

OK, we'll look at that (debug_monitor.log) as an alternative to catching captions. Thanks

Let me know if I can be of any help.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re 'Closed Captions' :  Some newbies may prefer to leave this on, but other more experienced pilots will want to disable it, so if there is an alternative like the debug_monitor_log then that would be good, then the user can still use or not the close caption option in PF3.

Stuart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FS++ said:

 

Thanks. That really sounds good!

 

Regarding the debug_monitor_log, it is encrypted for the users but can be decrypted of course. If the encryption turns out to be a problem I suggest that you contact Dave March to make it available for you. I am sure there can be a solution.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Thanks. That really sounds good!

 

Regarding the debug_monitor_log, it is encrypted for the users but can be decrypted of course. If the encryption turns out to be a problem I suggest that you contact Dave March to make it available for you. I am sure there can be a solution.

 

The problem is also that there are also various levels of debug. Dave decided to encrypt it because in PFE days some users doctored the file in order to create false information. My thinking is that Dave would probably prefer an alternative method. But by all means ask and see what he thinks is the best method.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2017 at 9:06 PM, FS++ said:

OK, just to update everyone on this.

We are currently revamping the PF3 interfacing.

...

Suggestions welcome.

Sounds like a great solution, especially the fact that it will all be with one voice set! Will we be able to ask the FO to request a different flight level, for example for a step climb, or a runway, or a direct to? Ideally without the need to skip through the runways oneself, the FO would do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, d.tsakiris said:

Sounds like a great solution, especially the fact that it will all be with one voice set! Will we be able to ask the FO to request a different flight level, for example for a step climb, or a runway, or a direct to? Ideally without the need to skip through the runways oneself, the FO would do that.

That would be nice indeed.

(edited because I had read to quickly :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

We can already do that now using an appropriate voxkey command (with the PF3 voice though), so that should still be possible I guess.

 

Hm...how? I use VoxKey to direct the FO to do the basic things like asking for clearances etc., but I haven't found a way to implement the possibility to say "Please ask for flight level 360" and have him or her do that. That would incorporate reading the flight level at that time, and pressing the acccording hot key for the difference in flight levels. Don't think that's possible with VoxKey...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, d.tsakiris said:

Hm...how? I use VoxKey to direct the FO to do the basic things like asking for clearances etc., but I haven't found a way to implement the possibility to say "Please ask for flight level 360" and have him or her do that. That would incorporate reading the flight level at that time, and pressing the acccording hot key for the difference in flight levels. Don't think that's possible with VoxKey...?

You are correct! As you can see, I edited my post - too late for you. ;-)

I was too quick with my answer. What I do is to ask the FO to for example request 2000 feet higher. But even that involves a lua script because you have to press two keys simultaneously which is not possible with voxkey.

Sorry for the confusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shifted back to the smaller planes, so now handling ATC myself again, and the freezing is also back. By the way, also with FSX' default ATC, not only PF3.

 

I make a transmission, but it doesn't get sent. I want to repeat and notice there's no background noise while pressing the PTT - the MCE GUI is still responsive. If you wait a bit, or toggle one of it's functions, the title changes to “Trying to connect...“ or something like that, and it freezes up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, FS++ said:

OK, guys, grab and run this package, and we'll take things from here with PF3 interfacing.

Get latest MCE build here

Thanks!

Is there a changelog so we can see what we should pay attention to when testing the new Version - and where no change is to be expected?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Thanks!

Is there a changelog so we can see what we should pay attention to when testing the new Version - and where no change is to be expected?

 

Here are the main changes...

Co-pilot can now handle ATC with PF3/PFE using same MCE FO voice (both Human recorded or TTS voices).

Until PF3 provides a way to read those captions from a text file, fo now, users MUST enable the "closed caption" option.

If detected as disabled, you'll get a warning to switch it ON anyway.

"Pilot voice" option must be turned off, that way, you won't need to use the "suspend PF3" key when alternating between you transmitting or having the Fo handle ATC.

On start-up, MCE will switch VCP mode to OFF and leave it there from then on.

We tried to mimic real world operation.

On ground, assuming Fo has the COMMS, he won't take the initiative until you tell him to.

No request for taxi until you ask him  "Request taxt", "Obtain taxi clearance", "let's request taxi" (and other variations) 

No request for takeoff until you ask him  "Request takeoff", "Obtain take clearance", "let's request takeoff" (and other variations) 

FO is able to monitor the captions for acknowledgments and use these for replies (after some processing. For instance call-sign must come last when replying)

when on ground or flying aircraft manually, expect FO to be able to dial transponder, set heading and altitude in MCP whenever he can work these out from the clearance caption.

If unsure about something, just ask him

 

Confirm assigned heading

confirm assigned altitude

confirm squawk code

and hopefully, even "confirm runway in use" once it has been granted.

The above can be requested with other verbiage variations such as

what is the assigned heading

what about atc assigned altitude, etc..

When flying on auto-pilot, you the pilot flying, are expected to dial those MCP values yourself.

For now, complex requests such as direct course to waypoint, navaid, level change, other runway for takeoff, have to be handled by yourselves. But we are working on the too.

In fact, you can already say "ask for flight level 220". But the hotkey sequence isn't clear with that aspect yet. You'll end up with 2000 above or below.

That's about it for now.

If yo come across a particular caption that isn't handled well, please notify us.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now