After a short flight test with PF3 it seems some simple commands still do not work...

1/Ground>>>Indicatif>>>"Ready for Departure" don't match.

Mce thinks it's a request to change the runway (Ctrl Shift W) like in the previous version instead of the key "6". The result is I have the option with Runway XX y/n and so on....

I know that the command "At the holding point, Ready for departure" works but the simple command "Ready for Departure" should also work.

2/Like in the previous version the "Clear of the Active" command is correctly displayed but the ground or tower center don't answer, nothing. The same with the "Clear of the active, request taxi to parking" command.

The "Request taxi to parking" command seems working.

In this new Mce I don't see any difference with the previous version compared to the two commands I commented.

Is the good version ?

Thank you and Regards,

Richard

Edited May 18, 20179 yr by DrumsArt
Typo error. Please read "Is it the good version ?"

5 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

1/Ground>>>Indicatif>>>"Ready for Departure" don't match.

 

Is this intended as a request for ATC clearance or takeoff?

There are commands such as "Ground CallSign requesting runway 5 for departure". And I guess it's the one that fired.

What callsign were you using? Is callsign intended as airliner or GA aircraft, and what type of aircraft was involved?

The main difference in the new package V2.7.1.0 is ability for FO to handle ATC using same MCE voices, something that wasn't possible before.

 

As point of clarification:

In PF3, when PF3 FO is handling radios he also changes frequency when requested by ATC and communicates with the next controller. If when using the latest MCE version one ask the MCE FO to handle the radio, does he automatically acknowledge ATC commands and also change radio frequencies etc as he did with RC4, or does one have to initiate a request to change comm1 to the new freq and request him acknowledge?

I understand from the previous posts that when on the ground and say are at the holding point, one as to request to the FO to "request takeoff clearance" (or similar), whereas PF3 FO did this without prompting. Is this the case?

Sorry if stating the obvious, but I haven't yet had the time to try the new version with PF3, and am just trying to get things clear in my head from reading the above posts, so that I know how to proceed once I find time to jump in the cockpit!

4 hours ago, FS++ said:

Is this intended as a request for ATC clearance or takeoff?

There are commands such as "Ground CallSign requesting runway 5 for departure". And I guess it's the one that fired.

What callsign were you using? Is callsign intended as airliner or GA aircraft, and what type of aircraft was involved?

The main difference in the new package V2.7.1.0 is ability for FO to handle ATC using same MCE voices, something that wasn't possible before.

 

It was intended for take off and sorry I made a typo. The command was "Tower (not Ground)>>>Lancair DMO>>>Ready for Departure"

"The main difference in the new package V2.7.1.0 is ability for FO to handle ATC using same MCE voices, something that wasn't possible before."

Yes I know but I thought that the problems mentioned in this topic had been solved...

...because you wrote :

Regards,

Some more questions (or suggestions...) here about the FO functionality before starting to test:

 

1. I assume the „default radio mode“ is that I have ATC and I have to say „You have ATC“ to start the new functionality. Is there a way to change the „default radio mode“?

 

2. Do I understand correctly that after I say „you have ATC“ the FO will handle everything autonomously: reading back clearances and commands, switching frequencies and contacting a new facility (except for the requests for clearance, taxi and takeoff).

 

3. What if I stay in „I have ATC mode“.

Will the new functionalities be available also on an indiviual basis? Can I say „request clearance“ whithout having said „you have ATC“ and the FO will then just request clearance and do nothing else?

Will the FO still set the squawk and the frequencies without me having said „you have ATC“?

Can I say something like „copy that“ to make the FO readback the last clearance / command?

Will he do that autonomously if I fail to do so after some time (I remember you mentioned something like that some time ago).

 

4. Vice versa: If I am in „You have ATC mode“ can I still talk to ATC myself – by pressing the PTT button – and the FO will then readback?

 

5. What about the initial contact to Tower for landing and to Ground for taxi to gate (in „you have ATC mode“)?

In PF3 the check-in with the new facility in these cases does not come directly after the handoff („contact Tower when on Final“ resp. „Contact ground when clear of the runway“) but is triggered by the position of the aircraft (established on final resp. turned away from the runway heading). MCE will probably not be able to read the aircraft position, so I assume that these check-ins do not come autonomously but have to be triggered by saying „request landing“ resp. „request taxi to gate“. Correct?

 

6. What if an ATC transmission comes when the FO is busy with a checklist or midway through a voicescript? Will the checklist resp. the voicescript automatically be suspended until the ATC communication is done?

 

7. Do the new „confirm assigned...“ requests include „confirm taxi clearance“? It would be nice if the FO could repeat the assigned taxi path on request during taxi.

 

8. Can the FO ATC commands be included in a voicesript like any other command?

Can I for example include „request take-off“ in a „ready for departure“-voicescript?

 

9. What if I have my own voicescripts or voxkey commands that are now the same as the new FO commands? Do I assume correctly that my own commands will now be blocked because the new built-in FO commands have priority?

2 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Some more questions (or suggestions...) here about the FO functionality before starting to test:

 

1. I assume the „default radio mode“ is that I have ATC and I have to say „You have ATC“ to start the new functionality. Is there a way to change the „default radio mode“?

Not yet

2. Do I understand correctly that after I say „you have ATC“ the FO will handle everything autonomously: reading back clearances and commands, switching frequencies and contacting a new facility (except for the requests for clearance, taxi and takeoff).

Affirmative. On ground he'll do that. When airborne only dials HDG, ALT when you're flying manually.

3. What if I stay in „I have ATC mode“.

Will the new functionalities be available also on an indiviual basis? Can I say „request clearance“ whithout having said „you have ATC“ and the FO will then just request clearance and do nothing else?

Affirmative

Will the FO still set the squawk and the frequencies without me having said „you have ATC“?

Not sure bout this one. Will have to check.

Can I say something like „copy that“ to make the FO readback the last clearance / command?

He'd need to be a mind reader for that to happen out of the box.

But thanks to the built-in flexibility, there is nothing preventing you creating such command "Copy that" and associate it with existing command "Reply to atc" and presto, he knows what you mean.

Will he do that autonomously if I fail to do so after some time (I remember you mentioned something like that some time ago).

That's what option "Can take over atc when busy" is for. See ATC tab in MCE UI.

4. Vice versa: If I am in „You have ATC mode“ can I still talk to ATC myself – by pressing the PTT button – and the FO will then readback?

You can transmit anytime (even when FO has the COMMs). The issue is with acknowledgments. You need to make it clear who is in charge, or FO will double up on your transmission, even though, he can technically determine whether the clearance was already replied to. It just a timing issue. He may not see it before he starts transmitting himself.

5. What about the initial contact to Tower for landing and to Ground for taxi to gate (in „you have ATC mode“)?

In PF3 the check-in with the new facility in these cases does not come directly after the handoff („contact Tower when on Final“ resp. „Contact ground when clear of the runway“) but is triggered by the position of the aircraft (established on final resp. turned away from the runway heading). MCE will probably not be able to read the aircraft position, so I assume that these check-ins do not come autonomously but have to be triggered by saying „request landing“ resp. „request taxi to gate“. Correct?

MCE can certainly read aircraft position. I'm not sure about this specific scenario and what to do about it. Doe that mean aircraft has to be on final before request is accepted? 

6. What if an ATC transmission comes when the FO is busy with a checklist or midway through a voicescript? Will the checklist resp. the voicescript automatically be suspended until the ATC communication is done?

MCE is a multi-threaded app. Things can happen simultaneously. You can ask FO to suspend checklist if you want, or just take your time when answering. If you take too long to reply, FO will eventually stop reading the checklist and you can request it to be read a bit later, at your earliest convenience. He should be able to perform a flow AND reply to ATC when he has the comms.

7. Do the new „confirm assigned...“ requests include „confirm taxi clearance“? It would be nice if the FO could repeat the assigned taxi path on request during taxi.

Not yet. Will be added it to the todo list

8. Can the FO ATC commands be included in a voicesript like any other command?

Not sure which ones you're referring to. You can only include commands that don't required holding PTT down. ATC jargon based commands are only available when PTT is down

Can I for example include „request take-off“ in a „ready for departure“-voicescript?

Absoluely

9. What if I have my own voicescripts or voxkey commands that are now the same as the new FO commands? Do I assume correctly that my own commands will now be blocked because the new built-in FO commands have priority?

Yes, built-in commands always take precedence over custom ones. May need to alter your custom commands slightly. As long as they differ by a single character, they would be seen as custom commands, and could be useful as alternative commands.

Answers embedded.

1 hour ago, FS++ said:

Re above and my earlier question:

2. Do I understand correctly that after I say „you have ATC“ the FO will handle everything autonomously: reading back clearances and commands, switching frequencies and contacting a new facility (except for the requests for clearance, taxi and takeoff).

Affirmative. On ground he'll do that. When airborne only dials HDG, ALT when you're flying manually.

Are you saying that, with PF3, when in the air and the FO has the radios that he will not read back ATC commands or change frequencies / contact next controller in the manner that he did when using RC4?

Stuart

 

12 minutes ago, STUART_H said:

Are you saying that, with PF3, when in the air and the FO has the radios that he will not read back ATC commands or change frequencies / contact next controller in the manner that he did when using RC4?

He will of course read back clearance, tune next freq (even on complex aircraft), then contact next controller. It's only the FCU dialling bit which he intentionally leaves to you when you are on auto-pilot. That's usually the workflow in real life.

I tried these new functions ("you have the ATC")...Great features ! Thank you.

However I have the following problem :

Clive my copilot contacts the ground or tower successfully but does not acknowledge receipt. I don't know where I missed something. Is this function operational ?

In Mce "Talk to ATC controllers" is checked and "Co-pilot can handle radio if busy" also. In PF3 the closed caption is ON. Where am I wrong ?

Regards,

Richard

8 hours ago, FS++ said:

Answers embedded.

Thanks for the replies! Time to test things out myself now.
 

Quote

 

5. What about the initial contact to Tower for landing and to Ground for taxi to gate (in „you have ATC mode“)?

In PF3 the check-in with the new facility in these cases does not come directly after the handoff („contact Tower when on Final“ resp. „Contact ground when clear of the runway“) but is triggered by the position of the aircraft (established on final resp. turned away from the runway heading). MCE will probably not be able to read the aircraft position, so I assume that these check-ins do not come autonomously but have to be triggered by saying „request landing“ resp. „request taxi to gate“. Correct?

MCE can certainly read aircraft position. I'm not sure about this specific scenario and what to do about it. Doe that mean aircraft has to be on final before request is accepted? 

 

 

Here is how it works in PF3, VCP mode 2:

 

Approach says something like: "cleared for the Approach ... , contact Tower when on final". With the STAR Option that can happen far away from the airport. The FO will then switch to Tower and contact Tower for landing not before the aircraft is lined up and around 10 nm from the runway. Nevertheless you can manually switch to Tower and request landing long before reaching the final. The request will be accepted anyway ("Continue Approach"). But, as I said, with the STAR option activated that might be very far a way from the Airport, so not very realistic.

After landing and decelerating on the runway Tower says something like "turn left/right next taxiway. Contact Ground when clear of the runway". The FO will switch to Ground and request taxi to gate not before the aircraft's heading has changed significantly from the runway heading (not sure about the exact value here). I never tried to manually do it before, so I'm not sure if it would be accepted.

 

Quote

 

6. What if an ATC transmission comes when the FO is busy with a checklist or midway through a voicescript? Will the checklist resp. the voicescript automatically be suspended until the ATC communication is done?

MCE is a multi-threaded app. Things can happen simultaneously. You can ask FO to suspend checklist if you want, or just take your time when answering. If you take too long to reply, FO will eventually stop reading the checklist and you can request it to be read a bit later, at your earliest convenience.

 

 

I meant when the FO has the radio. Will he reply to ATC and after that move on to the next checklist item / voicescript command?

 

4 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

I tried these new functions ("you have the ATC")...Great features ! Thank you.

However I have the following problem :

Clive my copilot contacts the ground or tower successfully but does not acknowledge receipt. I don't know where I missed something. Is this function operational ?

In Mce "Talk to ATC controllers" is checked and "Co-pilot can handle radio if busy" also. In PF3 the closed caption is ON. Where am I wrong ?

Regards,

Richard

 

No readbacks here neither.

I tested with FSUIPC (4.966c) Multiline Window on and off.

No acknowledging of the clearance. When I say "reply to ATC" he only transmits the callsign.

When pressing the roger hotkey manually I hear nothing (but PF3 affirms "readback correct"). The same when pressing any PF3 hotkey manually. So I assume the MCE-FO voice does not work when manually pressing the hotkeys. It would be nice if the MCE voice would work when manually pressing the hotkeys because the PF3 voice had to be set to None so manually pressing the hotkeys does not work anymore at all now.

Maybe that can be made possible in future with a PF3 text file to read from?

 

Other observations:

"Request Clearance" is not recognized. When I say "Request IFR clearance" the FO says "Delivery, request startup clearance". So what is the phrase to request the IFR Clearance?

When it comes to requesting pushback and startup the FO is still saying "Delivery..." even though that is on Ground frequency.

Quote

 

When pressing the roger hotkey manually I hear nothing (but PF3 affirms "readback correct"). The same when pressing any PF3 hotkey manually. So I assume the MCE-FO voice does not work when manually pressing the hotkeys. It would be nice if the MCE voice would work when manually pressing the hotkeys because the PF3 voice had to be set to None so manually pressing the hotkeys does not work anymore at all now.

Maybe that can be made possible in future with a PF3 text file to read from?

 

A workaround (thus making manually - or with voxkey commands - pressing the hotkeys still possible) might be to keep a pilot's voice selected in PF3 and make use of the PF3 AutoMute function. But for that MCE would have to send the PF3 PTT hotkey when transmitting. That seems not to be the case now.

 

Just always sending the PF3 PTT hotkey directly before the appropriate hotkey after the MCE transmission should work.

Quote

 

No readbacks here neither.

I tested with FSUIPC (4.966c) Multiline Window on and off.

No acknowledging of the clearance. When I say "reply to ATC" he only transmits the callsign.

 

He also does not set the squawk or the COM frequencies. So it looks like the "you have ATC - mode" does not get activated at all (even though he confirms "I handle ATC from now on").

 

Quote

RALF9636 said:
After landing and decelerating on the runway Tower says something like "turn left/right next taxiway. Contact Ground when clear of the runway". The FO will switch to Ground and request taxi to gate not before the aircraft's heading has changed significantly from the runway heading (not sure about the exact value here). I never tried to manually do it before, so I'm not sure if it would be accepted.

As far as I am aware the aircraft has to be at least a 90 degree tangent from the runway heading before the PO makes contact with the ground. If not more. It won't happen if you are still facing more or less the same direction from  whence you came. For example it won't happen on a high speed turn-off.