RichieFly

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Just saw where Milviz is providing their Stuka for free.

How's that for a bargain? I really like those guys at Milviz.

Here's how: Milviz

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THAT'S awesome!  One of my favorite planes...

Thanks MilViz!

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The repaint of that airplane has a ###### logo on the tail, I don't man..., feels weird. Especially when you look the trailer, with that background music.

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I thought they offer it without the swastika and only make that available as a separate download. But I haven't checked yet.

Edit: Oops, you're right!

In http://milviz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=3383 they wrote that you can download the full markings if you bought the aircraft in the EU, but it seems with the free version they were not able to make this version available to me, too.

I haven't registered to their forum yet, can someone who has make a post there?

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I fear this is going political. However, is it that people DON'T want historically accurate markings, or they DO want historically accurate markings?

The way I see it is that if you don't want a swastika then you shouldn't want the killing machine it was applied to. Does anyone feel similarly about the Enola Gay (if that's available as a B-29 in FSX) in this politically correct world?

Incidentally, the download link works for me, but then again I live in England. Also the tune is known as the Luftwaffe March, specifically written for the 1969 film Battle of Britain. In the US the music score was renamed Aces High (no, not the Iron Maiden version!)

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The situation in Germany is that you are not allowed to display this symbol, but there are some exceptions. Exceptions are basically art, science and education, but video games are explicitly not considered art in this context. So you could argue that this is for scientific research (history) or education, but easy is something else.

So this particular situation is not about political correctness, but adhering to German law.

But yes, I'm glad that the free P-38 is a civilian variant, and the only MilViz aircraft I have bought are unarmed (C310, the T-38A in NASA livery, and the Nemeth Skycrane). This does not mean that I won't play games which include military actions, it only means that I don't want this in FSX.

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Wow! Thomas, thanks for the insight. So, the free version does NOT have the swastika correct? (I've not downloaded it yet, I've just glanced at the instruction manual)

 

 

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The free version has the swastika, even when downloaded from Germany.

Previously, with the paid version, the store would give you this version with full markings if you live outside Europe. When in Europe (or when buying from a European store), you would get the version without the swastika, but had the option to download the full markings from the forum link I mentioned above.

I can only assume that this was for Europe and not only Germany, because at some point it was proposed to restrict the usage of the swastika in European law, but from what I've read (but I did not verify in detail) the German government decided to not impose this restriction upon others.

 

Regarding the plain itself:

I installed it to check for the markings, and flew it through the pattern once. Visibility during taxi is good for a taildragger, and it flies and lands very well. The detail in the cockpit is great, but it is odd to see so much German lettering in a cockpit (though I think you can change that by copying some texture files).

If you can't read German, it might be not easy to enable the Treibstoffpumpe so your engine does not stutter and die :-)

And you should definitely take a look at the comms/nav equipment in the aft cockpit :)

But for now I have uninstalled it again, which worked without problems.

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Sorry to hear that Thomas, and thank you again.

 

Yes, I've seen a video on youtube where the cockpit had English labels.

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On 4/25/2017 at 8:59 AM, ThomasAH said:

Regarding the plain itself:

Where is the edit button? :)

(I'd like to blame it on voice input or autocorrect ... but this was caused by my brane)

 

Back on topic: If I really wanted to fly it, I would already have contacted MilViz or painted over it myself. But I'm happy enough with the other aircraft (MilViz and otherwise) I have.

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Why all the fuss? It's part of our history, that's how the aircraft existed in real life, so... I want it as it existed, not transfigured to be 'politically correct'.

As long as we know wrong from right and do our best to stop things like the atrocities that happened in WW2 from happening again, seems ok to me. And i couldn't care less about politics.

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Nuno, each to their own. You can have the Stuka with the accurate markings. I too wondered about political correctness. HOWEVER, as Thomas rightly informed me, German Law prevents such symbols being used. Now, I doubt the authorities would even notice if the symbol was displayed privately on a PC flight sim aircraft in a simmer's home in Germany. Again that would be down to the individual.

This raises the question of other WWII aircraft - allied ones sporting "kill markers" of swastikas. The B-17 Memphis Belle springs to mind. I'm not talking about the film, but flight sims and radio controlled model aircraft.

 

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27 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

German Law prevents such symbols being used. Now, I doubt the authorities would even notice if the symbol was displayed privately on a PC flight sim aircraft in a simmer's home in Germany. Again that would be down to the individual.

This raises the question of other WWII aircraft - allied ones sporting "kill markers" of swastikas. The B-17 Memphis Belle springs to mind. I'm not talking about the film, but flight sims and radio controlled model aircraft.

I found an English translation for the corresponding law (StGB - German Criminal Code):

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p0872

Quote

Section 86
Dissemination of propaganda material of unconstitutional organisations

(1) Whosoever within Germany disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination within Germany or abroad, propaganda material
1.  of a political party which has been declared unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a political party or organisation which has been held by final decision to be a surrogate organisation of such a party;
2.  of an organisation which has been banned by final decision because it is directed against the constitutional order or against the idea of the comity of nations or which has been held by final decision to be a surrogate organisation of such a banned organisation;
3.  of a government, organisation or institution outside the Federal Republic of Germany active in pursuing the objectives of one of the parties or organisations indicated in Nos 1 and 2 above; or
4.  propaganda materials the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organisation, shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.
(2) Propaganda materials within the meaning of subsection (1) above shall only be written materials (section 11(3)) the content of which is directed against the free, democratic constitutional order or the idea of the comity of nations.
(3) Subsection (1) above shall not apply if the propaganda materials or the act is meant to serve civil education, to avert unconstitutional movements, to promote art or science, research or teaching, the reporting about current or historical events or similar purposes.
(4) If the guilt is of a minor nature, the court may order a discharge under this provision.

Section 86a
Using symbols of unconstitutional organisations

(1) Whosoever
1.  domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writtenmaterials (section 11(3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organisations indicated in section 86(1) Nos 1, 2 and 4; or
2.  produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use in Germany or abroad in a manner indicated in No 1,
shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.
(2) Symbols within the meaning of subsection (1) above shall be in particular flags,insignia, uniforms and their parts, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in the 1st sentence shall be equivalent to them.
(3) Section 86(3) and (4) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

So a shop selling this might have a real problem, unless "the act is meant to serve civil education, to avert unconstitutional movements, to promote art or science, research or teaching, the reporting about current or historical events or similar purposes." applies, which might be true, but as the saying goes: IANAL.
If I read it correctly, a user not publicly uses such items (e.g. on youtube) does not break the law. But again, I am not a lawyer (or judge).

If I were a judge, I would probably consider the B-17 be to be fine (as a symbol of fighting against it, not as propaganda material promoting it).

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