GSalden

P3Dv4 Clouds and AA

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Anyone knows if clouds are still anti aliased according to the AA settings like V3 or are they now left alone for more performance ?

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I've been wondering this same thing. Hopefully someone can comment on this.

I have heard mixed things regarding performance. Some say it's much better than v3, while others say it's the same as v3.

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Of course, I haven't used it yet; but, I would assume that LM would not build a brand new sim, and not improve performance. So I'm guessing these things have been addressed... or, will come along quickly through updates.  (just my guess) 

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It's interesting to note that the minimum and recommended hardware configs are somewhat higher for v4 that v3, though.

 

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59 minutes ago, joemiller said:

Of course, I haven't used it yet; but, I would assume that LM would not build a brand new sim, and not improve performance. So I'm guessing these things have been addressed... or, will come along quickly through updates.  (just my guess) 

LM did not build a brand new sim and they have not fixed a lot of things yet so why should they 'of course' have fixed this? If I were you I wouldn't count on a perfect sim yet. :happy: Clouds and AA have been a problem since day one and they never fixed it up to now so why whould they suddenly have fixed it in v4? Of course I do hope they did but I wouldn't say 'of course'.

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Theres going to be some misunderstanding it seems. If going by FPS as most do on here, its probably going to be relatively the same, however most will now put up sliders at same time since we have no OOM possibilities. Same FPS but higher settings equals better performance. 

That aside, AA on clouds was always a hit. Would definitely help in performance but I guess its not easy to exclude clouds from having AA applied. Maybe it can be asked in the Prepar3d forum or one of the beta testers can answer. 

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8 minutes ago, J van E said:

LM did not build a brand new sim and they have not fixed a lot of things yet so why should they 'of course' have fixed this? If I were you I wouldn't count on a perfect sim yet. :happy: Clouds and AA have been a problem since day one and they never fixed it up to now so why whould they suddenly have fixed it in v4? Of course I do hope they did but I wouldn't say 'of course'.

Of course.. Let's hope they fix it.. That would be grand, isn't it? Of Course! 

 

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1 hour ago, J van E said:

LM did not build a brand new sim and they have not fixed a lot of things yet so why should they 'of course' have fixed this? If I were you I wouldn't count on a perfect sim yet. :happy: Clouds and AA have been a problem since day one and they never fixed it up to now so why whould they suddenly have fixed it in v4? Of course I do hope they did but I wouldn't say 'of course'.

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Maybe the new AA mode available right inside Prepar3D v4 may be usefull on this point ?

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1 hour ago, vbazillio said:

Maybe the new AA mode available right inside Prepar3D v4 may be usefull on this point ?

Afaik those new modes only are heavier on the system so they won't help with performance. What needs to be done is to prevent clouds using AA at all. They don't need it and it only costs performance.

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11 minutes ago, J van E said:

Afaik those new modes only are heavier on the system so they won't help with performance. What needs to be done is to prevent clouds using AA at all. They don't need it and it only costs performance.

There was a post by the previous LM product lead .... what was his name... about how they couldn't figure out how to stop applying AA to clouds. (I think, I really want to find the thread and reread it because it was interesting).

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Is that even possible? Isn't AA applied after the scene has been rasterized and so has no concept of what objects are what in the image?

Sorry if I'm throwing nonsense here

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12 minutes ago, LB777 said:

Is that even possible? Isn't AA applied after the scene has been rasterized and so has no concept of what objects are what in the image?

Sorry if I'm throwing nonsense here

Possibly

Edited by NZ255
Changed because I'm not sure, but think so

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I often think about AA and why it's even necessary.  If you pick up a camera in the real world and point it at something, no AA is required.  It just looks right.  In part, that's due to atmospheric blurring which gets especially strong on hot days and, perhaps, the analog nature of lenses. 

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1 minute ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

I often think about AA and why it's even necessary.  If you pick up a camera in the real world and point it at something, no AA is required.  It just looks right.  In part, that's due to atmospheric blurring which gets especially strong on hot days and, perhaps, the analog nature of lenses. 

I think it's more to do with the fact that we don't see in pixels.

 

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1 minute ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

I often think about AA and why it's even necessary.  If you pick up a camera in the real world and point it at something, no AA is required.  It just looks right.  In part, that's due to atmospheric blurring which gets especially strong on hot days and, perhaps, the analog nature of lenses. 

Er...? I think that is due to the fact the real world isn't built of pixels. A screen is. Hence you need AA. Of course the real world doesn't need AA... Or am I misunderstanding your post?

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Just now, J van E said:

Er...? I think that is due to the fact the real world isn't built of pixels. A screen is. Hence you need AA. Of course the real world doesn't need AA... Or am I misunderstanding your post?

I think you understand it.  Right, the real world isn't built of pixels but the image of a digital camera is.  The digital image from the camera is then displayed on a digital screen and it looks great.  It's that analog step between the things in the picture and the camera sensor that make the difference.  Instead of the edge of an object being assigned at pixel X1 or X2, it's just color at that point, blended into both without any digital processing cost necessary.  Makes me wonder if, someday, a piece of digital-to-analog-to-digital hardware might eliminate the need for AA entirely.  Anyway, all of this is off topic.

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Ah, ok... Hm, without going into details (I wonder if all of what you say is correct) I do think that in the end it all depends on resolution. No digital-analog-digital hardware is needed. That isn't the solution. To put it a bit (well, very) simplistic: the eye also has some sort of resolution. I read you could somehow say that would be around 400 to 600 MP. (You can't really put it like this but well.) An HD screen has a rather low 2 MP. You still need AA for that. A 4K monitor has an MP of around 8. You need far less AA with that one. Imagine a screen having the same (sort of) resolution as an eye, let's say 400 MP to stay on the low side: I am sure a screen like that won't need AA. It is all a matter of pixels... and time. :happy:

It is OT indeed but still connected and relevant, I think. :happy:

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1 hour ago, J van E said:

Ah, ok... Hm, without going into details (I wonder if all of what you say is correct) I do think that in the end it all depends on resolution. No digital-analog-digital hardware is needed. That isn't the solution. To put it a bit (well, very) simplistic: the eye also has some sort of resolution. I read you could somehow say that would be around 400 to 600 MP. (You can't really put it like this but well.) An HD screen has a rather low 2 MP. You still need AA for that. A 4K monitor has an MP of around 8. You need far less AA with that one. Imagine a screen having the same (sort of) resolution as an eye, let's say 400 MP to stay on the low side: I am sure a screen like that won't need AA. It is all a matter of pixels... and time. :happy:

It is OT indeed but still connected and relevant, I think. :happy:

Your points are good ones. If you think about it, though, a 4K TV is very capable of showing a movie in super-sharp clarity.  So, while a higher resolution display is going to help, there's something fishy about how the video card creates and then 'sees through a lens' what it created.  The crappiness of that piece is what causes us to have to use AA.

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