badapple

2D Panels

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Please!  Some one tell me that this aircraft has 2d panel.  If NOT then I will not buy.  Some people just can't stand a 3d VC on their desktop.  I suppose that the reason to desolve 2d is because every one is buying VR kits?  I don't think so.

Its just that some people enjoy working with a 2d panel.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, badapple said:

Please!  Some one tell me that this aircraft has 2d panel.  If NOT then I will not buy.  Some people just can't stand a 3d VC on their desktop.  I suppose that the reason to desolve 2d is because every one is buying VR kits?  I don't think so.

Its just that some people enjoy working with a 2d panel.

It doesn't, although it has popups for the 3 CDUs, MCP, Radio panel, PFDs, NDs, etc.  If you can type "A" quickly you can move from one VC panel to another very rapidly.

This has been discussed many, many times in the PMDG forums.

Mike

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2 hours ago, badapple said:

Please!  Some one tell me that this aircraft has 2d panel.  If NOT then I will not buy.  Some people just can't stand a 3d VC on their desktop.  I suppose that the reason to desolve 2d is because every one is buying VR kits?  I don't think so.

Its just that some people enjoy working with a 2d panel.

 

 

VR is not required for a 3D virtual cockpit. I think you misunderstand what that really is.

Full names are required in the PMDG forums

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3 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

VR is not required for a 3D virtual cockpit. I think you misunderstand what that really is.

I don't have VR and I get around the VC just fine.  There's a command that makes the mouse move your position in the cockpit around so you can look up at the overhead panel or down at the throttles, CDUs, radios, weather, etc., -- space-O or something like that (I don't use it).

Mike

 

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14 minutes ago, Mike777 said:

I don't have VR and I get around the VC just fine.  There's a command that makes the mouse move your position in the cockpit around so you can look up at the overhead panel or down at the throttles, CDUs, radios, weather, etc., -- space-O or something like that (I don't use it).

Mike

 

You can just hold the space bar and move your mouse around and it will pan around the cockpit.

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11 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

You can just hold the space bar and move your mouse around and it will pan around the cockpit.

Yes, that's what I had in mind.  Thanks!

I add Hotkeys to some of the cameras, using a built-in FSX function, to move around, but it's too hard to explain the setup in a post.  It has to be redone every time there is an update, as the aircraft.cfg file gets overwritten.

Mike

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The question becomes WHY?  Why do you want to push the space bar and move around with your mouse, stop, then click or scroll whatever is required and on top of that be in a viewing mode that requres you to zoom in and out blah blah blah blah............

2d solves all of that.

click and enjoy.

PS - I know VR is not a requirement of the 3d panel view. But I think this was the intent when some developers dropping 2d and only going 3d.  3d is VR ready so to speak.

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2 hours ago, badapple said:

The question becomes WHY?  Why do you want to push the space bar and move around with your mouse, stop, then click or scroll whatever is required and on top of that be in a viewing mode that requres you to zoom in and out blah blah blah blah............

2d solves all of that.

click and enjoy.

PS - I know VR is not a requirement of the 3d panel view. But I think this was the intent when some developers dropping 2d and only going 3d.  3d is VR ready so to speak.

you  can also  get  chase  plane  or  ezdok  for  views,  you still need  to add  you  full name  to each of  your  posts as  per the forum  rules

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Are there still add-on planes out there with 2D panels? I guess none.

2D panels are so 90ies old school i would never go back. We're in the 21ht century, we have computers with more then 200 MHz ;-)

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I just find it too difficult to hold the space bar and move the mouse.  Just too complicated and strenuous for me.:smile:

Mike

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3 hours ago, badapple said:

The question becomes WHY?

VR has nothing to do with it. 

There are several problems with 2D panels:

- They consume a large amount of VAS

- The resolution and colour choice is limited (by the sim) to a very 90s (16-bit) palette which makes it difficult to make them look good

- Until the last P3D v3 hotfix there was a memory leak associated with resizing 2D panels (see VAS)

- The vast majority of customers will fly from the VC anyway where they can experience the flight deck in 3D at much higher resolution and with more eye candy (lighting effects etc)

Don't get me wrong, I'm speaking as someone who largely agrees with you on the benefits of 2D panels and still uses them where available. But I understand why the market is largely dropping them.

The VC takes a bit of getting used to, for certain, but with a bit of practice is quite usable and does make the 2D experience feel quite... well... flat when you go back to it. My personal tip is FSUIPC: there's an option to use the middle mouse button for panning and zooming (so instead of holding them the space bar, you just hold the scroll wheel/middle mouse to pan around and zoom with the scroll wheel).

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When this was first discussed around the time the 777 was released, PMDG said that they don't object to individuals making and posting 2D panels, provided they use their own artwork for the backgrounds.  The individual posting the 2D panel(s) would have to provide support, as PMDG obviously won't want to be involved in doing it.  I don't think anyone has published any.

But for those who don't have the 777 or 747, they both come with quite a few pop-up windows.  The 3 CDUs, MCP (autopilot), captain's PFD and Nav Display, radio panel, EFIS can all be opened with Shift+# keys, and others can be popped up (easier to read) by clicking on them in the VC.  The MCP Speed, Heading, Vertical Speed, Altitude increase and decrease functions and many other commands can be assigned easily to key combinations. 

Simon, didn't know about the middle mouse wheel -- thanks for the tip!

Mike

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Joe Fackel;

Yes, iFly 737 and 747 have 2d, 3d or fully VC options in the config file.  They cover the bases.

The Level-D 767 that has been converted to P3D still has 2D panels.

Just Flight L-1011 has option to use 2d or 3d panels.

Yes, they are out there. And people still want them regardless if they seem to be old "90's" style.  Some people just don't like all of that movement in the cockpit.

Stephen W.

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2D panels are not old school.  They are for serious simmers who have detailed home cockpits.

 

My home cockpit was a meticulous copy of my mission aircraft.  I flew many practice missions in my sim, before getting in the real bird.  Knew the flight inside & out.  Cannot do that in VR.

 

My current sim is undergoing a makeover.  I am configuring it for glass cockpit, touchscreen...no more fumbling switches.  They are indeed old school.  This new glass cockpit will have 14 monitors.  Four 55" forward view monitors, accompanied by 10 touch screen monitors rounding out the MIP, Overhead and pedastal.  No way will one VR be realistic.

 

VR is for the guy sitting at the desk with one or two monitors and a joystick.  To me, that is not realistic flying, although I must admit I've done my share in the early days before cockpits and their components were so widely available, and when I was less able to save for such items.

 

I have used VR with a 3D headset.  Although it was absolutely awesome with true depth perception, being able to turn your head and see all around, the 3D is not yet ready for prime time...not enough field of view, not clear, not bright, hard to use with glasses, still to heavy on the head.

 

2D panels are still needed, but you can accomplish the same thing by taking a snapshot of the VR.  If anyone can suggest a program that will let you manipulate the view precisely, I'd like to hear about it.  EZdok does not allow real precise views.  Lots of "dead space" around the item you really want to see.  Putting that in a monitor looks very sloppy and unrealistic.

 

One thing I have noticed on my PMDG 777, is that the pedestal or overhead for example, will not work until you undock them.  Then you can manipulate the buttons and switches.  If one could get a precise snapshot of the gauge/gauges he wants to see, that could be undocked and moved to the appropriate cockpit monitor, that would be the ideal.  A concern evidently not shared by my fellow simmers in the VR community.

 

Richard Jeffries

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