My interest in flight simulation has become perverted. At first I just wanted to fly. But now I seem to be spending all my time cruising the forums for hints and all my money collecting planes and buying add-ons hoping to get just that little bit extra "realism".Enough is enough! I have spent over $1200 and rarely have time for the whole purpose which was to fly. I have the RealAir planes, Ultimate Terrain USA and Canada/AK, all the 38m mesh FSGenesis has for North America, the FSGenesis landclass, and BEV. With a 128 meg card things are unlikely to get much better. So! Unless there is some cosmic breakthrough in realism I'm retiring from this race!

>Try to use language that is order of magnitude closer to reality.My apologies, I forgot to accommodate the more literal people in the crowd. I went to the BEV site and performed a thorough analysis of how much more expensive BEV is over GE. My mathematical formula tells me that BEV is exactly 3.03333333333333 (I think there are more 3s in there) more expensive than GE, or at least it would be if it were possible to purchase all the volumes that still haven't been completed. Phrased in terms of orders of magnitude, it is .3033333333333 of an order of magnitude greater than GE. Satisfied :)?EDITED to correct an error in my "orders of magnitude" calculation.

Derek,Perhaps you missed my post from yesteday, the fourth one in this topic, in which I clarify the future Bev releases and pricing? You can have the world for about $54. It's up to you as the consumer to decide if that is a good value to you, but it certainly will not be 3 times the cost of GE.You do bring up a good point in the fact we need to update our website on that point.Tony=http://www.flightsim-bevs.com]

Why 'ditch' anything? I'm pretty new to this thing but from what I have seen so far, there are many great products available for FS that are very similiar. Some are payware, some are free, but all have one thing in common: the developers are passionate about supporting the FS community.It all comes down to personal preference. I've owned Fords, GM's, and Mopar's, and had likes and dislikes on all of them, and the same with downloads for FS. I've downloaded and tried many addons for FS in the last month or two, and deleted many more than I retained.Research the products, research the support, then make your decision, but support all the wondefull people that are dedicated to making our FS world a fun and enjoyable place to escape to.*Soapbox is now available*

I haven't got either. But to an outsider, it does appear that this whole region and season thing that FScene and BEV do is a bit of a rip-off. There some of you are waiting for seasons and regions and GE just turns up and offers the lot for the price of two BEV's. That really is how it seems to me.I imagine the BEV team are furious at Flight1 for pulling the carpet from under their feet. But maybe Flight1 realised that if they don't publish GE, somebody else will!

>I haven't got either. But to an outsider, it does appear that>this whole region and season thing that FScene and BEV do is a>bit of a rip-off. There some of you are waiting for seasons>and regions and GE just turns up and offers the lot for the>price of two BEV's. That really is how it seems to me.>>I imagine the BEV team are furious at Flight1 for pulling the>carpet from under their feet. But maybe Flight1 realised that>if they don't publish GE, somebody else will!It's not GE's fault for exposing the dubious practices of BEV. It's BEV's fault for using them in the first place!Sorry Tony, but until BEV offers `whole world, five season` coverage for the SAME price as GE, or very similar, it IS a RIPOFF, pure and simple. The concept has been exposed, so fix it, or prove to Avsim that you DO change ALL the textures in EACH and EVERY package. Until then, $54 or $540 it doesn't matter, it's a crock! but I do agree that the consumer has free will. Especially now they are knowledge of the full facts. And that's not GE's `fault`. Allcott

Hi there,BEV and GE have very different concepts. GE is primarily about *global* coverage with a *single* set of textures, just like the default sim. BEV is about *choice*: you get to pick which texture variant you prefer for the region your prefer to fly over. You can save those "themes" and exchange them with others. Making several variants for each class - and they *are* different as each owner can check for himself - takes more effort, which contributes to the final price tag.If the option for those choices is not worth the additional expense to you, so be it. But that doesn't make the software a ripoff. One can buy the same airplane model from different vendors for vastly different amounts of money. That doesn't automatically mean that the cheaper one is the better one or does it?The interesting thing is that Peter's previous product, Flight Environment, is also all about choice even though one can only use one set of cloud/sky/water textures at a time. No one complained about choice there, as far as I recall ;-)Cheers, Holger

>Hi there,>>BEV and GE have very different concepts. GE is primarily about>*global* coverage with a *single* set of textures, just like>the default sim. BEV is about *choice*: you get to pick which>texture variant you prefer for the region your prefer to fly>over. You can save those "themes" and exchange them with>others. Making not but several variants for each class - and>they *are* different as each owner can check for himself ->takes more time, which explains the higher cost.>>If the option for those choices is not worth the additional>expense to you, so be it. But that doesn't make the software a>ripoff. One can buy the same airplane model from different>vendors for vastly different amounts of money. That doesn't>automatically mean that the cheaper one is the better one or>does it?>>The interesting thing is that Peter's previous product, Flight>Environment, is also all about choice even though one can only>use one set of cloud/sky/water textures at a time. No one>complained about choice there, as far as I recall ;-)>>Cheers, HolgerDisagree, you're taklking about the slightly revised `concept` after the release of the GE textures casued several people to wonder why the seasonal/regional issue had to be done that way, when the regional textures are no different. If you are suggesting the sole reason for the difference is the front end then you could be right. Just explain the regional textures and how they differ from region to region? I hadn't realised until I installed BEV and noticed their `USA` textures cropping up EVERYWHERE else, but having noticed it, I was not very surprised to find the explanation when GE was released. GE does NOT specifically mention this in any of their litereature, but it IS clear that something funny is going on, and BEV should have the opportunity to explain their marketing concept. And Tom, my comments CANNOT be `libellous` as you so brusquely mentioned in the edited topic - BEV HAVE YET TO RELEASE EUROPEAN TEXTURES. You cannot libel something that doeasn't exist!I suggest that Avsim look and compare the European sets when released to actually identify that they are appreciably different. If they are, and the front end doesn't need to gain another option in the menus to accommodate them then they are right. If not, then questions do need to be asked. And Avsim forums are the right place to ask them, as Avsim should be the jury as the simmers representative.Allcott

Thanks Holger for explaining this.All that said I would certainly say the design concpets behind GE and BEV are different and I would say that one is not better than the other in a blanket sense.Some people will favor BEV and others GE.I know it's all very confusing and I know a lot of people like a straight answere of which is best and they want a clear answer.The answer is not clear because the questions are confused and the anwsers are being given by people who are strongly biased towards either BEV or GE.I would just like to add to anyone whos reading these GE posts or related posts than in the end it is about choice but it's you who needs to make this choice.

Hi Allcott,why the exasperation and conspiracy theories?Everyone can find out how many textures FS uses per region by reading the MS Terrain SDK documents: http://fsinsider.com/downloads/fs2004_down...m#Terrain%20SDK , specifically "TerrainTextureNames.doc".FS has ten regions of which two are in North America and three others - Asia, Europe, and Middle East - currently have unique textures.Because FS is US-centric and because not every type of land use is different from other parts of the world the North American regions, B and C, do have many more unique textures than the other regions. Nevertheless, there are texture sets unique to the other regions and they require additional work by the developer.Secondly, it is possible to make region-specific textures even of those that are already used in Region B. This is what VOZ does for Australia and what FScene did with its regional textures, meaning you have to switch between texture sets before starting the sim.Again, choice (and the inherent complexity) may be a deterrent to some but a bonus to others.Cheers, Holger

Hi Peter,good points there!May I suggest that you set up a dedicated support forum for GE like BEV and other products have? This is not meant to discourage people from posting at Avsim or elsewhere but it's obvious that the same questions are asked repeatedly and that decisions are being made based on limited or misleading information. A support forum, with the help of a few sticky posts, could address the most commonly asked questions in a focused manner, which should help both developers and (potential) customers.Cheers, Holger

>Hi Peter,>>good points there!>>May I suggest that you set up a dedicated support forum for GE>like BEV and other products have? >>This is not meant to discourage people from posting at Avsim>or elsewhere but it's obvious that the same questions are>asked repeatedly and that decisions are being made based on>limited or misleading information. A support forum, with the>help of a few sticky posts, could address the most commonly>asked questions in a focused manner, which should help both>developers and (potential) customers.>>Cheers, Holgerhttp://www.simforums.com/forums/default.aspAnd just to add. In my personal opinion in the two areas I have flown tonight (Joshua Tree NP, California and Glacier NP, Montana) GE textures have given me more visually appealing flights (not necessarily more true to life) than BEV. However, as I said, that is my personal opinion.

>Hi Allcott,>>why the exasperation and conspiracy theories?>>Everyone can find out how many textures FS uses per region by>reading the MS Terrain SDK documents:>http://fsinsider.com/downloads/fs2004_down...m#Terrain%20SDK>, specifically "TerrainTextureNames.doc".>>FS has ten regions of which two are in North America and three>others - Asia, Europe, and Middle East - currently have unique>textures.>>Because FS is US-centric and because not every type of land>use is different from other parts of the world the North>American regions, B and C, do have many more unique textures>than the other regions. >>Nevertheless, there are texture sets unique to the other>regions and they require additional work by the developer.>>Secondly, it is possible to make region-specific textures even>of those that are already used in Region B. This is what VOZ>does for Australia and what FScene did with its regional>textures, meaning you have to switch between texture sets>before starting the sim.>>Again, choice (and the inherent complexity) may be a deterrent>to some but a bonus to others.>>Cheers, Holger>> The exasperation is because I turn to forums like this - and experts like you - for clarification on issues like this and yet you have never posted on this before. The exasperation is because having believed BEV BS I thought installing BEV textures would NOT affect the FScene textures in Europe. I am exasperated because the BEV dripfeed approach gives the clear impression that there would be different texture sets for each region, yet I was seeing partial texture sets from my USA install messing up my other scenery. None of this is satisfactorily explained by YOU, Avsim, BEV - or Fscene. Only the arrival of GE explains the pricing policy. And it has very little to do with the front end. My exasperation is that, to reduce the impact of the BEV textures sets I actually have to uninstall them and reinstall the default textures. My exasperation is that GE has shown that none of this was necessary, nor do I have to continue to buy multiple texture sets just to have something that doesn't muck up everything else! Thank you for the explanation, and I look forward to BEV European textures being markedly different to their US textures WITHOUT ANY NEED TO CHANGE SETTINGS, or else BEV and Fscene have both been hoodwinking simmers.I happen to agree that BEV, Fscene, GE and others improve choice for simmers. But choice AT WHAT COST? Honesty and integrity in business dealings are at least as important as the product quality.Allcott

Yes... and we would even be willing to host the forum (for free of course).

Yay for Holger, always the voice of reason. :)I don't understand why people get so heated over this whole thing. We should all be jumping for joy because we have choices. It's good for the community to have choices. Each user can choose based on his own tastes or budget, or any other criteria they desire. To think that we all have to agree that one product is better than the other is just plain silly. Should we do the same with Mercedes Benz and Hyundai? They are both cars, they both do the same thing. Is one better than the other? Is the price difference justified? We would never all agree on that nor should we.I've purchased FS Water and Flight Environment so I know the quality of Peter's work, and I've experienced his support first hand. But I have the first four volumes of BEV and I will buy the rest. I'm happy with the way it looks, and the support at the BEV forum is first-rate also. Both are excellent products. In the end it's just a matter of choice.One is not "better" than the other, they are just "different" and we as a community are the winners.Jim