Mike Berger

Question about the piper arrow

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I've been looking at videos of the piper arrow addon, but I don't see any that show VC shadows or windshield raindrops. Does the Arrow support either of these?

 

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Yes, the JF Arrow supports cockpit shadows in FSX and P3D V4 and FSW, and it supports raindrops in FSW too; they even remembered to have it work properly when the DV panel is open, but the shadowing in the cockpit in FSW is more subtle than it is in P3D and FSX because FSW has more sophisticated lighting and texturing capabilities, so you might not have noticed it so much in some videos, but I can assure you it is there. 

 

 

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I think it doesn't. I got a bit disappointed. Those are things I really liked about FSW (the high quality cockpit shadows and the raindrops on the windshield). It got me thinking about future add-ons, if they won't include these features either.

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On 9/10/2017 at 5:15 PM, ca_metal said:

I think it doesn't. I got a bit disappointed. Those are things I really liked about FSW (the high quality cockpit shadows and the raindrops on the windshield). It got me thinking about future add-ons, if they won't include these features either.

Nope, trust me, it does. I just checked it two minutes ago.

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5 minutes ago, Chock said:

Yes, the JF Arrow support cockpit shadows in FSX and P3D V4 and FSW too, and it supports raindrops in FSW too and they even remembered to have it work properly when the DV panel is open, but the shadowing in the cockpit in FSW is more subtle than it is in P3D and FSX, so you might not have noticed it so much in some videos. 

 

 

The aircraft parts aren't casting shadows in the inside view. Try to look the outside view with open doors, you will see lots of shadows, then look from the inside view, you will see no shadows from the aircraft parts. No yoke shadows, no window shadows.

There are some shadows, but not all shadows. There's more ambient occlusion than shadows.

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Try this: take off and look at the right hand door pillar in banked turn, you will see that white pillar's shading change as you turn.

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bicXuaX.png

jpxuokg.jpg

See? Different lighting as the aircraft turns and rain on the windows, notice the knobs on the avionics between the two shots, the door frame, the red upholstery etc. That's what PBR lighting gets you.

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Thanks for the responses. It looks like the arrow doesn't have vc shadows in FSW. It has subtle lighting changes, but not the shadows like it has in FSX: JFARROW02.jpg

It is strange that the shadows are missing just for the arrow, but they are there for the default aircraft in FSW. Are you all running on high or ultra for the aircraft graphics? Maybe it's just a setting?

I have FSX with a gazillion dollars worth of addons, and for some reason, FSW, with all that it's missing, is pulling me in with these raindrops. It was smart of dovetail to add those raindrops in the early release. For now, the default cherokee will suffice as it has raindrops, shadows, and the bouncing needles.


 

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6 minutes ago, Mike Berger said:

It looks like the arrow doesn't have vc shadows in FSW. It has subtle lighting changes, but not the shadows like it has in FSX:

You are right (it seems). And that's a big disappointment. We need an update.

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22 minutes ago, Chock said:

 

 

See? Different lighting as the aircraft turns and rain on the windows, notice the knobs on the avionics between the two shots, the door frame, the red upholstery etc. That's what PBR lighting gets you.

This is ambient occlusion, it looks really nice, but go and take the old piper cherokee, you will see there are more shadows lacking in the Just Flight aircraft. Or just look Mike´s shots above. Where are the yokes shadows? Or the windows shadows? You can notice those all on the Mike´s shots. I´m pretty sure they aren´t activated on the inside view. 

If you try the outside view, the arrow III shows all those shadows, but for some reason they are not showing off from the inside view. 

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14 minutes ago, Mike Berger said:

Thanks for the responses. It looks like the arrow doesn't have vc shadows in FSW. It has subtle lighting changes, but not the shadows like it has in FSX: 

It is strange that the shadows are missing just for the arrow, but they are there for the default aircraft in FSW. Are you all running on high or ultra for the aircraft graphics? Maybe it's just a setting?

I have FSX with a gazillion dollars worth of addons, and for some reason, FSW, with all that it's missing, is pulling me in with these raindrops. It was smart of dovetail to add those raindrops in the early release. For now, the default cherokee will suffice as it has raindrops, shadows, and the bouncing needles.


 

Like I said to Chock, try the outside view with open doors, you will see all those shadows, actually with way more quality than those on FSX/P3D, but for some reason they are not showing off when you are in the inside view.

And yes, for those not noticing the lack of the shadows, just try the cherokee, you see the shadows of the yokes, the windows etc.

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Oh I know what you mean, and I expect it might come in a patch. You have to remember that this is literally the first ever aeroplane developed specifically for FSW from scratch, and the trueSKY weather and lighting is currently in flux too, so it's something of an experiment for not only Just Flight, but also for DTG and they probably know stuff that we don't where that is concerned, since part of the process of making this Arrow was for finalising the SDK for developers. We, JF and DTG are in uncharted territory here; it's exciting, but it is as we know Early Access too, so we've gotta expect some hiccups and oddities to occur along the way with regard to features.

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Probably will come in the next patch. I've bought planes with far worse bugs than this on release. The good news is, the shadows in FSW are great, so when they get put in this plane, it will be better than ever. 

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y4mZf-tmCTczmZTi6BNsgo5gqsflbNAxJic7aJl9

Here you go chaps - default PA28 on the left, JF PA28 on the right. These shots were taken seconds apart, but look how those trueSky clouds have changed in the JF PA28 shot - amazing!

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1 minute ago, A32xx said:

y4mZf-tmCTczmZTi6BNsgo5gqsflbNAxJic7aJl9

Here you go chaps - default PA28 on the left, JF PA28 on the right. These shots were taken seconds apart, but look how those trueSky clouds have changed in the JF PA28 shot - amazing!

That´s what I was talking about, thanks for the shots. 

And yes, TrueSky is amazing and it has much more potencial. 

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It's not as if JF don't know how to do shadows and reflections, they are all there in the P3D version of the JF Arrow, so they are clearly going to be there in the FSW one when its lighting features are finalised. But as I say, JF are developing the SDK with DTG, and there is a patch on the way, probably next week, which is going to affect lighting, so I should imagine it is something to do with that. After all, JF are not going to bother using an obselete method to produce cockpit shadows for the thing if they know it will be a wasted effort a few days later when a patch comes out.

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9 minutes ago, Chock said:

It's not as if JF don't know how to do shadows and reflections, they are all there in the P3D version of the JF Arrow, so they are clearly going to be there in the FSW one when its lighting features are finalised. But as I say, JF are developing the SDK with DTG, and there is a patch on the way, probably next week, which is going to affect lighting, so I should imagine it is something to do with that. After all, JF are not going to bother using an obselete method to produce cockpit shadows for the thing if they know it will be a wasted effort a few days later when a patch comes out.

Agreed. There are also a couple of config utilities missing from the FSW version, probably for the same reason. I wonder if Flight1 will port over their GTN Complete Edition when the SDK is released?

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22 minutes ago, Chock said:

It's not as if JF don't know how to do shadows and reflections, they are all there in the P3D version of the JF Arrow, so they are clearly going to be there in the FSW one when its lighting features are finalised. But as I say, JF are developing the SDK with DTG, and there is a patch on the way, probably next week, which is going to affect lighting, so I should imagine it is something to do with that. After all, JF are not going to bother using an obselete method to produce cockpit shadows for the thing if they know it will be a wasted effort a few days later when a patch comes out.

Sure, I really think they will implement it. I think we are just trying to point out the flaws to get it even better. 

The plane is already amazing (in my opinion it surpassed the other versions), but I think it has space to be improved, and we are all trying to make constructive criticism in here. 

And well done Just Flight, this plane is really amazing.

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This is very strange. No models I've ever built for FSX or P3D have needed anything "special" done to them to implement cockpit shadows. The feature just works...

...to be sure, early Alpha/Beta versions of FSX did at one time require objects to be 'watertight' but that was eliminated prior to RTM.

Can it be that FSW does require some additional step(s) to enable this feature? :blink:

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29 minutes ago, n4gix said:

This is very strange. No models I've ever built for FSX or P3D have needed anything "special" done to them to implement cockpit shadows. The feature just works...

...to be sure, early Alpha/Beta versions of FSX did at one time require objects to be 'watertight' but that was eliminated prior to RTM.

Can it be that FSW does require some additional step(s) to enable this feature? :blink:

I think it does, because the FSW aircraft textures don't include the Specular or Bump files which were necessary in FSX. Maybe these FSX object or model lighting effects are now coded into the FSW object or model itself?

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1 hour ago, A32xx said:

I think it does, because the FSW aircraft textures don't include the Specular or Bump files which were necessary in FSX. Maybe these FSX object or model lighting effects are now coded into the FSW object or model itself?

The odd thing is I saw a video of someone converting the FSX 737 and It had VC shadows. In the other hand the oustide shadows were really odd.

Well, I really believe they will have this figured that out.

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Does the Arrow come with an AI version as well? Can you see other Arrows at airports.

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I added ForceVCShadowMap=1 to FSW.cfg and was able to get very limited VC shadows when the small window or the door is open. It seems like the window glass texture is opaque to outside light in the arrow in FSW. 

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The VC shadow issue will be addressed in an upcoming update, and yes it is handled differently to FSX/P3D, as are other aspects of modelling/texturing.

Thanks
Martyn - Just Flight

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1 hour ago, Martyn JF said:

The VC shadow issue will be addressed in an upcoming update, and yes it is handled differently to FSX/P3D, as are other aspects of modelling/texturing.

Thanks
Martyn - Just Flight

Thanks Martyn. Could you elaborate about the difference? Would be interesting to hear how shadows are rendered. 

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