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Hi, I want to know if someone can help me understand if a strong cooler has any privileges to the performance of p3d4? Of course to the operation of cpu, but is it worth to upgrade for the p3d4? Please advise and give me your recommendations.

Geo

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Hi Geo,

This is worth only if you are going to overclock your CPU, overclocking is totally worth for PDV4.

I use water-cooled components to be able to OC as much as possible, PD3V4 works better with CPUs running at 4.5 Ghz or more, I can run mine at 4.8 Ghz during winter and 4.6Ghz during summer.

Note that you can also OC your video card giving you an extra hump, but with the current version of prepar 3D, CPU is still more important.

The next is your hard drive, SSD is key but the best is having a .M2 SSD drive.

All the best,

Simbol 

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Simpol, thank you so much for your informations. My CPU is 4.0Ghz max 4.2 GHz overclocked. I’m happy with this situation but I want to change my cooler for that reason. Something strange is happening which I’m very surprised with.

i have connected to my GPU 1080 ti 3 monitors. My main is 49 inches 4k tv and the 2 other 27 inch HD monitors.

Using PMDG 737-800 staring the flight in a very dense scenery with 30 FPS. While I open for example the ATC window or an outside view of the aircraft and undock it  my fps increase to 95 even 118.

can you believe it? My sim settings are nearly on it’s highest.

i never imagine such a high smooth performance while most of the simmers complains for low fps.

Geo

 

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Ti models are great as they have a lot of RAM and power, also I am sure you are not using Nvidia Inspector which tend to do damage to performance when people enable settings don't fully understand, especially with Dynamic lighting enabled.

Enjoy your sim experience.

Regards 

Simbol 

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On 2017. 9. 25. at 0:57 AM, georgiosgiannoukos said:

Hi, I want to know if someone can help me understand if a strong cooler has any privileges to the performance of p3d4? Of course to the operation of cpu, but is it worth to upgrade for the p3d4? Please advise and give me your recommendations.

Geo

 

I am not sure if you can get these coolers below, but, I strongly check out 

below  they are both  ultra quiet and I heard some says, they performs almost similar and identical to liquid coolers.  

 

Thermolab Trinity White LED

 

Thermalalright macho Rev . B 

 

these coolers are somewhere between max rpm 1400~1500rpm.  idle is 600rpm..  

when I run P3D, it normally shows around 40 degrees, max 60 degrees. 

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Simbol, the thing is that I'm not able to OC my CPU either my GPU

mine is intel core i7 6700k quad-core skylake 4x4ghz turbo 4.2ghz

my GPU is NV 1080ti

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1 hour ago, georgiosgiannoukos said:

Simbol, the thing is that I'm not able to OC my CPU either my GPU

mine is intel core i7 6700k quad-core skylake 4x4ghz turbo 4.2ghz

my GPU is NV 1080ti

Hi,

I don't know why you wouldn't be able to OC a 6700K - the "K" means you can OC it... Perhaps it's you MOBO ?

I did a bunch of research on my build and "Noctua" seems to be one of the best "Air" coolers out there - had better performance numbers than some of the liquid systems...

Regards,

Scott

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Scott, my English are not so good, sorry, not able I mean, I don’t know how to OC my CPU and also my GPU, wish I could and I may get better performance for p3d.

Is it difficult and is any risk?

george

 

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If your not up on OC then this is were a good motherboard can pay off were you can overclock with the click of a mouse button.

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Hi G...

No worries - we all try to help and as someone who only speaks fluent English - I applaud your efforts with multiple languages...

Best bet - is start reading the manual on your motherboard and figure out how to overclock it - as that's where the settings you need to modify are - you need to get into the motherboard BIOS... Gigabyte which I have used through several builds makes it as simple as changing one setting to OC a CPU... I'm still running an old 2700K which I OC to 4.7Ghz and it's been running like that for 5 years...

So - once you figure out how to OC and you want to go forward with it - if you're running a stock cooler - you need to choose something better... The Noctua coolers are very large so you want to insure you have proper space inside your case... Here is the Noctua I prefer and what I'm including in a build I have planned for this year:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9PV3Y62116

While OC does offer some risk that you could overheat your CPU - the CPU does have safety precautions built in to shutdown the CPU when over temperature conditions are detected - not that you want to rely on that... You want to monitor temps while testing OC... 

Perhaps you can find YouTube videos in your native language that can better explain how to OC a computer and things you need to watch out for ???

Regards,
Scott

 

 

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On 9/24/2017 at 10:36 AM, georgiosgiannoukos said:

My CPU is 4.0Ghz max 4.2 GHz overclocked. I’m happy with this situation but I want to change my cooler for that reason. Something strange is happening which I’m very surprised with.

Using PMDG 737-800 staring the flight in a very dense scenery with 30 FPS. While I open for example the ATC window or an outside view of the aircraft and undock it  my fps increase to 95 even 118.

can you believe it? My sim settings are nearly on it’s highest.  Geo

 

Hi Geo,

If you add a higher end cooling solution you might get to 4.6Ghz.  This represents a 9% increase in clock speed, and with it maybe a 5-7% increase in CPU-limited frame rate performance in P3D.  This means that in scenarios where you might see frame rate dip to 25, you'll then see 27 or so.  There are so many other variables that affect performance it starts seeming hardly worth it.  Sounds like most of the time you're fine.

The 'open up the ATC window and see FPS increase to 95 or 118' is NOT what P3D is running at, it's what the undocked window is running at!  This fooled me a while back.

Another possibility if you can is to install a thru-the-wall small air conditioner, then park your PC case right next to it.  That's what I do and this cools the entire system, mainboard, CPU, GPU, memory, etc.  And the beauty is--it's there for all subsequent PC builds.  My old 3930K chip is running at 4.42Ghz for 5 year with CPU core temps w/ HT enabled at 50 degrees F or lower.  Of note, I have a Noctua NH D14 which works well but w/o my air conditioner I would see temps around 62 or 63F which is fine, but I like 50F better and it is probably why this CPU still runs after 5y of near daily use.

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I'm running the same chip at 4.6ghz using a cheap Antec Kuhler 620 with 2 fans on it.  A noctua shouldn't even break sweat

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On 10/16/2017 at 7:21 AM, scottb613 said:

Here is the Noctua I prefer and what I'm including in a build I have planned for this year:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9PV3Y62116

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

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On 20/10/2017 at 10:51 PM, Noel said:

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

 

Your motherboard failure was highly unlikely to be anything to do with the D14. Noctua's SecuFirm2 system is very good. Static compressive load on the CPU IHS is higher than Intel's 50 lbf spec, purposefully, as it improves cooling, but more importantly, dynamic comprehensive loading during a reasonable shock event is actually below Intel's 160 lbf spec thanks to the spring mounting system.

Given that the motherboard is firmly screwed to the case, no "unacceptable" bending of the board is possible.  Also worth mentioning that a degree of bend on a motherboard is permissible, Asus spec is something like 1/2 inch across the board IIRC. Crazy I know. 

Noctua engineers have tested the system and it has proven itself over many years. My old D14 was in four different systems over quite a few years. Zero problems. No need for you to worry. However, it makes sense to remove the cooler if shipping distances, as a crazy courier banging it about in the back of a lorry has been known to cause issues

I had the cable tie idea too but when I installed the cooler it was immediately apparent it wasn't required. I also designed a support bracket at the time. Didn't use it.

Incidentally, what usually happens in the event of an excessive comprehensive dynamic load event is not so much MB bending, it's the cooler base being pushed into the bottom of the IHS, crushing the socket. It happened a while back with Scythe coolers and Skylake. The Scythe mounting system had no spring retention system, so no shock absorption. Further more, the mounting pressure was way above Intel spec. Scythe did quickly address the issue and modified the mounting system. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Your motherboard failure was highly unlikely to be anything to do with the D14.

I had the cable tie idea too but when I installed the cooler it was immediately apparent it wasn't required. I also designed a support bracket at the time. Didn't use it.

 

 

I tend to agree but 'highly unlikely' is not the same as, 'not possible.'   For the lousy 25 cents worth of zip ties I'll do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays!  It just LOOKS stressed--but I understand what you're saying it's very robust for normal stresses.   However over many years, micro-fractures to the PCB, years of moving my case on and off it's base, all that leveraged gravity, etc.  Here's Noctua's disclaimer:

"As it is not possible to reliably calculate or control the forces that act upon a system during transport (e.g. in shipping), we generally recommend, for safety reasons, taking the cooler off. Noctua cannot be held responsible for any damage that may arise due to excessive stress during transport if you keep the heatsink installed."

Adding the zip ties took it from 'robust' to near bullet proof, and it could easily take shipping stresses IMHO.  

Martin, when I finally get around to a new build which I am holding off as long as possible as I can't stand the heat of the new chips I think because of how intrusive the size of Noctua coolers are I'm contemplating water cooling solutions.  Do you have a recommended AIO?  I'm guessing they're near bullet proof by now as far as leaks go, yes or no?

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16 hours ago, Noel said:

I tend to agree but 'highly unlikely' is not the same as, 'not possible.'  

 

Firstly, I have no problem with anyone using zip ties or there own custom built bracket if it gives them piece of mind. There's a lot to be said for peace of mind. As I say, I almost did.

In regard to cooling, and many things, "not possible" is out of the question. That applies to water coolers and even light weight air coolers that none of us would hesitate to install without worry. The Scythe incident is a prime example, these were light weight air coolers that nobody would consider supporting with zip ties. However... the result was still damage to the CPU socket, the reasons for that I mentioned previously. So "impossible" would be asking too much I feel. 

 

Quote

However over many years, micro-fractures to the PCB, years of moving my case on and off it's base, all that leveraged gravity, etc

 

Empirical evidence is the key I would say. We can hypothesise about such things but we have to ask whether, in practice, such a scenario is manifest. And if we look at the evidence, it's not. We can scan Google as much as we like and there's not a single, definitive, example of the D14/15/15S "in normal use" damaging a motherboard as a result of the weight of the cooler.

 

Quote

"As it is not possible to reliably calculate or control the forces that act upon a system during transport (e.g. in shipping), we generally recommend, for safety reasons, taking the cooler off. Noctua cannot be held responsible for any damage that may arise due to excessive stress during transport if you keep the heatsink installed."

 

Yep, absolutely. I mentioned this in my previous post. I mentioned the crazy courier scenario. My comments were based on a few examples where idiotic individuals had shipped their systems across the US with the cooler still attached. Damage ensued. To be honest, if I shipped a system a distance, even with a light weight air cooler, I'd remove it. I wouldn't risk a D14, even with zip ties,  either to be honest Noel. 

But Yes, as I say, I have no problem with you or anyone using zip ties, why not if you feel you want to, it harms no one. My solution was an aluminium bracket that i intended to attach to the top of my case with self tapping screws. I didn't it in the end, but I feel it would be a more robust solution that zip ties, all be it overkill. 

 

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16 hours ago, Noel said:

 

Martin, when I finally get around to a new build which I am holding off as long as possible as I can't stand the heat of the new chips I think because of how intrusive the size of Noctua coolers are I'm contemplating water cooling solutions.  Do you have a recommended AIO?  I'm guessing they're near bullet proof by now as far as leaks go, yes or no?

 

Well I recently built a Mini ITX system for my daughter Noel.

7600K, GTX 1060, 16GB GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz.

I tried a Noctua cooler first (cant recall the model) but no dice, wouldn't fit. In addition I was concerned with maximising air flow through such a small, warm case. To that end I ordered custom length PSU cables from CableMod to reduce cable clutter and went for a Corsair H100i V2 for the CPU.

I have to say that after assembly the H100i V2  performed admirably and handled a great overclock. The pump isn't even on high speed. Not particularly noisy, which is more than can be said for the GTX 1060. Although I did replace the Corsair fans with Noctua fans. Didn't even try the Corsair fans.

Since that initial bash I've delidded the CPU using the DieMate 2 and used Thermal Grizzly liquid metal TIM between IHS and Die. Temp dropped another 15 degrees. Didn't expect more as  Intel's attempt at TIM between die and IHS was reasonable. Not dried out, not excessive. 

Since then it's run at 5 GHz without issue.

My choice would be a Corsair Noel, something like the Corsair H115i, if you have room for the rad.  Another option to consider would be the relatively new  360 rad AIO's from for example Fractal Designs. No idea re quality and haven't looked at the reviews.

No, I would say regarding being "bullet proof". Yes they are better than they used to be but you still hear of issues. If you check out the Corsair forums you'll see it still happens. 

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:51 PM, Noel said:

Hi Scott,

I have had a NH D-14 now for 5 years and since I have my HAF X case standing upright that puts a huge amount of weight on the pcb where the socket lives.   My mainboard failed after 4y which may or may not have had to do with this issue, but since replacing the mainboard w/ a refurbished one of the same model I have used zip ties to make a sling that fully supports the NH D-14.   The zip ties are great because you can link several together which I did to thread thru holes in the case chassis metal and then you can cinch up the sling just right to counter gravity.  Worth a thought if you also will keep the PC case upright. 

Hi Noel,

Sorry - missed this - thanks for the tip - I'm planning to do this around the holidays - I'll keep it in mind...

Note: Are you the Noel that used to hang around the FlightSim hardware forum years ago doling out sage advice on hardware ?

Regards,
Scott

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4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Note: Are you the Noel that used to hang around the FlightSim hardware forum years ago doling out sage advice on hardware ?

Regards,
Scott

No I don't think so Scott.   I'm a little short on sage advice, but I'll sling an opinion out there regularly just because!

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Hah - then we're in the same boat...

:biggrin:

Regards,
Scott

24 minutes ago, Noel said:

No I don't think so Scott.   I'm a little short on sage advice, but I'll sling an opinion out there regularly just because!

 

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