brianbash

I am back on AVSIM seeking the desire...

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That is what seems to be absolutely non-existent at the "Primary" X-Plane forum. All I seem to get over there is a bunch of "Well, you better learn how to if you even think you're going to pull that off...You know, you shouldn't be" blah blah blah. Now, I have embarked on a project that is the shear definition of a complete overload situation. I won't go into much detail as that will be discovered via discussion...at least I hope.

I have taken on the beast gentlemen. I have invested quite a bit of money to literally revolutionize the platform in a way that will be beneficial for all. Just a quick overview of what I have learned and acquired over the past month of 10 hour days teaching myself how this scenery is put together. Main problem, I'm not much of a coder...but I have the tools and I'm seeking those interested in forming a team to take it there...bring people to their knees...tears of joy...you get it :)

What I have:

- 3 Years worth of Permissive Copyright NAIP photo data for almost every state.

- Global Mapper and ArcGIS Pro

- Shape's, Vectors, bells and whistles of everything and anything we need to make jaw dropping simulation a possibility.

For Example, you know those Forest Line releases? The one's that are limited in coverage due to poor OSM coverage in certain areas? Too bad no one is willing to jump on board with me...check this out...

Hkp65MY.jpg

Treelines...check...

How about some 10M DEM data? Coming right up...

jr0M5wb.jpg

In what format's can I export any of this data? Well...let's see...

KJ8fcHR.jpg

How do the Tiles look with the NAIP coverage after I edit them to bring out the glory? 

Kj1bQPg.jpg

B3tfV6m.jpg

5Nae6lP.jpg

tfDDKe7.jpg

Pretty terrible right?

 

So, this is a call to arms. I will not give up, I refuse. MeshTool has won it's rounds, but I will win... but I wouldn't mind a couple folks to jump on board with me. I've got nothing but time right now thanks to downtime in my career as an Audio Engineer/Producer, courtesy of R. Kelly. Not kidding. I believe I can fly, Ironic isn't it?

 

So, anyone with some knowledge want to go to battle with me? I sure hope so, on the other Forum someone thinks they are a comedian and put a crying emoji as his response to my questions looking for advice.

 

Blue side up gentlemen.

Bash

http://www.Ortho4US.com

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Hi,

I love using Photoscenery with Xplane.  Currently I have all of Arizona done, and about a third of California, the areas where I fly the most.  I used Ortho4xp, pretty much taught myself how to deploy it and use it.  I have all the Python libraries installed inside my Ortho4xp folder.

Only issue I've had is in trying to get autogen to display on top of the photoscenery.  Only one time did it work, then it failed.  Have tried moving my overlays into my custom scenery folder, but then they hide the photoscenery so I had to move them back.

I also use P3d, have MSE V2 covering California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.  In addition I have my own homespun Colorado scenery, avail here at Avsim, which I made using FSEarthtiles.

Photoreal scenery has really made simming come of age, you just can't get any more real.  I used to fly under Light Sport here in the US, and I can say that flying with Photoreal scenery simulates VFR flight to the fullest, especially when it comes to seeing the airfield as you approach it.

Congrats on your efforts, well done!

John

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I don't know a thing about what your talking about, but those screenshots look amazing.  Obviously you know what you're doing.

 

Bob

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Holy Sufferin Suckotash! Word's of Encouragment?! That's different lol.

 

Thanks friend. You know, this all started when I defected to the "X-Side" and stumbled into a what seemed like  a dark alley...of nerd's gone wrong lol. I saw many of my fellow simmers, caught in what seemed to resemble the neverending circle of "Flightmare's" known as the config file disease. Lost in trying to configure their sim without ever flying it. I wanted to do something about it while also trying to get a small amount of donation money to get my non-profit off the ground. I've always been the nice guy and it finally got me last year. Still, I will never let the thieves with dark hearts take my good heart. I saw an opportunity to bring that wonderful photo-realistic experience to many that were caught grounded in the making of it and to help me get "The Dreamflight Foundation" off the ground. Imagine "Make-a-Wish" but with a pair of wings. I've got the license, I sold my Piper Aztec and got my eyes on a couple Super Vikings. I'd like to bring some smiles to some faces. I believe Richard Bach said it best....

                               

                                                                 “Never stop being a kid. Never stop feeling and seeing and being excited with great things like air and engines and sounds of sunlight within you. Wear your little mask if you must to protect you from the world but if you let that kid disappear you are grown up and you are dead.”

 

 

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It's great to see other tackling this problem. Photoscenery is great and all, but it needs good autogen on top of it, otherwise it's just lifeless and flat IMO.

For the US, I found lack of data was holding me back creating more regions, and I started to write tools to trace trees from orthos, which works, but it can't distinguish shrubs from trees, so it can make things look a bit green.

 

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My goodness...Hello good sir Tony! Just the man I'd like to speak with.  

I need some assistance if you'd be so inclined. 

I have found in my adventures that its not so much the houses I miss for autogen...actually, the houses can kick rocks...its the missing tree's that really kill the immersion.

Now, I've got that data...and boy I've got lots of it. I just can't seem to get W2XP Ver. 0.7.4 to render the stuff. If you could help out I think together we could make a lot of people very happy...I've already got the treelines for 15 states...just need to get them into the sim.

qQTXeS1.jpg

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7 hours ago, brianbash said:

My goodness...Hello good sir Tony! Just the man I'd like to speak with.  

I need some assistance if you'd be so inclined. 

I have found in my adventures that its not so much the houses I miss for autogen...actually, the houses can kick rocks...its the missing tree's that really kill the immersion.

Now, I've got that data...and boy I've got lots of it. I just can't seem to get W2XP Ver. 0.7.4 to render the stuff. If you could help out I think together we could make a lot of people very happy...I've already got the treelines for 15 states...just need to get them into the sim.

qQTXeS1.jpg

Yes a lot of people would be happy ! + MisterX  HD texture replacement for X-Plane's default trees.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/110560-misterx-library-15-and-airport-updates/&page=4

Tony weren't you working on some CA trees ?

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32 minutes ago, strider1 said:

Tony weren't you working on some CA trees ?

Yep, I generated California, but I found holes in their data, which is sad. It's ready to release, I'm just away at the moment and not had time :)

8 hours ago, brianbash said:

Now, I've got that data...and boy I've got lots of it. I just can't seem to get W2XP Ver. 0.7.4 to render the stuff.

Hmmm, where is the data from in your screenshots?, It looks liked vectorised landclass data perhaps, but lines instead of polys? In either case, it would need to be simplified somewhat to get rid of the jagged/stepped edges but also to make sure X-Plane doesn't have insane loading times when the polys are too complex. If you send me a sample of the data I'd be happy to take a look at it and see if it can be used. For orthos, I generated most of the west coast using USGS orthos and 10DEM (but I think these are also available as torrents from X-Plane.org by a user called forkboy). Using Ortho4XP is probably much easier than meshtool as it produces beautiful coastlines, so definitely have a look at that.

Anyway, I searched high and low for decent vegetation data for the US and the best I found was raster data from USGS and NASA which I had to vectorise. Both are ok, but not as detailed as I would have liked (hence the tree tracing utility I wrote). My idea for when I get back from my travels is to use the tree tracing tool in combination with third-party data to attempt to get more accurate data.

 

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The 

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

Yep, I generated California, but I found holes in their data, which is sad. It's ready to release, I'm just away at the moment and not had time :)

Hmmm, where is the data from in your screenshots?, It looks liked vectorised landclass data perhaps, but lines instead of polys? In either case, it would need to be simplified somewhat to get rid of the jagged/stepped edges but also to make sure X-Plane doesn't have insane loading times when the polys are too complex. If you send me a sample of the data I'd be happy to take a look at it and see if it can be used. For orthos, I generated most of the west coast using USGS orthos and 10DEM (but I think these are also available as torrents from X-Plane.org by a user called forkboy). Using Ortho4XP is probably much easier than meshtool as it produces beautiful coastlines, so definitely have a look at that.

Anyway, I searched high and low for decent vegetation data for the US and the best I found was raster data from USGS and NASA which I had to vectorise. Both are ok, but not as detailed as I would have liked (hence the tree tracing utility I wrote). My idea for when I get back from my travels is to use the tree tracing tool in combination with third-party data to attempt to get more accurate data.

 

Correct, it is vectorized woodland landcover. Working on simplifying it as much as possible because, well, for the state of NY, it has 209,283 features :)

 

I also have a large...large amount of NAIP 1Meter ortho collections for the years of 2014, 2015 and 2016 covering...well...I believe I have 23 states in the vault currently. 

 

Just tell me how you'd like the woodland landcover and I'll upload it to my google drive for you to get your hands on. Choices are pretty much endless...

- .shp / .shx / .prj

- Stanford PLY

- OSM XML

- geoJSON

Here was a good reference for me, and I also stumbled upon a thread at .org regarding shapefile scripts for W2XP in which there was discussion of a script file use to import the shapefiles or something of the sort...

http://www.britishideas.com/2009/07/10/getting-us-government-shapefiles-into-openstreetmap/

 

....oh...my...god...I think....it may have worked....

"processed tile: 0 facades, 3541 forests, 0 objects"

That's a lot of forests for 1 tile.

 

I need a cheeseburger man, I'm nervous to check it out...lol

EkO3WE.png

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Ladies and gentlemen...boys and girls...

 

IT WORKED!!!! 

 

It's....absolutely....STUNNING...pics coming soon...I've got to redo it with the stock forests excluded...

 

Screw a hamburger, I'm getting a steak baby!!!!

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4 hours ago, brianbash said:

Ladies and gentlemen...boys and girls...

 

IT WORKED!!!! 

 

It's....absolutely....STUNNING...pics coming soon...I've got to redo it with the stock forests excluded...

 

Screw a hamburger, I'm getting a steak baby!!!!

Pics !!!

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10 minutes ago, strider1 said:

Pics !!!

IM WORKING ON IT!!!!!!! GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!

In all serousness....

I have never seen anything like it. 

AND DON'T YOU EVEN THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET A PIECE OF IT......Boy o' boy....

::ehhhm..:: excuse me, back to seriousness...

will probably throw a link in this thread by tomorrow morning...That's the smart thing to do. Feedback is crucial in the never ending hunt for perfection :)

 

buhfY4.jpg

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1 hour ago, brianbash said:

IM WORKING ON IT!!!!!!! GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!

In all serousness....

I have never seen anything like it. 

AND DON'T YOU EVEN THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET A PIECE OF IT......Boy o' boy....

::ehhhm..:: excuse me, back to seriousness...

will probably throw a link in this thread by tomorrow morning...That's the smart thing to do. Feedback is crucial in the never ending hunt for perfection :)

 

buhfY4.jpg

Cool, looking fwd to seeing your creation !

I didn't even see that pic till I replied. What does the before pic look like ?

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17 hours ago, strider1 said:

Cool, looking fwd to seeing your creation !

I didn't even see that pic till I replied. What does the before pic look like ?

Oh that pic, well, that's just showing off my tile colorization work.

 

Here is what I have been doing all day...learning the ropes of this...

SDUxlQ.png

 

Now, since I am using JSOM and W2XP for the "extra spice" to my line, I will be offering my treeline work and W2XP work gratis. 

 

The Ortho is the real bread and butter. I am combing these bad boys with a spork in order to attain true to life ortho tiles for myself and others who wish to purchase my work. 

 

I've covered all of my bases and am fully allowed to do as I wish with the tiles due to a permissive copyright.

 

Also, this aint gonna be some "Mega-ripoff" :::cough cough::: clone. I am hoping to have NY, ME, VT, NH and MA ready for a release on Halloween. Trick or treat? :)

Introductory price of $19.99 which will include updates as long as I'm steering the ship. Did I mention that I have 3 years worth of ortho's and each represents a different season due to the fact they are acquired twice a year? 

 

Anyways, enough jibber-jabber. Time to throw these tree's in the sim and see how she looks.

 

 

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Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough in this area to help (plain ol' Ortho4XP rendering is the limit of my knowledge) but just wanted to say I love the work you're doing here, and I love your attitude.  That sort of passion and determination will win!   I have no doubt you're onto something fantastic here.  Stick with it and keep that spark!

Keep us updated!

:cool:

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Dear Brian,

It is a bit unpleasant to tell but you seem not to be aware of this other project which is also based on NAIP imagery and 10m elevation data.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36327-us-orthophotos/

That one is not concerned with the overlay part though, so if the commercial nature is important to you it is probably a safer bet to focus on trees (which is a very nice project per se)

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Oscar,

Well, I have actually shared words with Mr. Fork. At first, I was in his corner against the many posters on the orthophoto thread after he had disappeared for some time leaving many angry. Feel free to search for my post history on the .org.

Also, NAIP images are permissive free copyright. I have now acquired 6 years worth of Ortho's for 38 states and a toolbox consisting of professionally licensed software and Meshtool for the build. I have also mailed a hard-drive with my LLC's name on it to myself for time-dating reasons. There are many types of soda aren't there? So no, I am not concerned by your statement, especially considering any money is for my non-profit called "Dreamflight Foundation." Imagine make-a-wish foundation with a set of wings.

In my 35 years I have seen the awe of aviation turn into the gloom of a bus ride. People don't seem to talk much anymore. 20 years ago I would get on the internet to get away from the world. Nowadays, it seems to be quite the opposite. I've always enjoyed bringing a smile to a face in need, why not make myself useful and do my best to bring some tired soul a moment of happiness? I've got the license, I've got the plane, just need some promo funding from good hearts.  

People like to look down into their cellphones for happiness. They like to argue and fight from behind a keyboard. I have no interest in doing so.

I also am not using Ortho4XP or ForkBoy's script that he stated I would need to download the NAIP photos.

So, does that cover everything? Great. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

 

BTW, Cute statement saying I should focus on my tree project. I figured you guys would pop up at some point with words of discouragement. 

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Dear Brian,

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I truly thought you were not aware of that project, I am reading the forums (only very occasionally for avsim) for but not to the point to know every one and I don't remember having read from you already. Perhaps for the same reason I don't understand the meaning of your sentence about the posters and Forkboy2 disappearing (?). It probably doesn't matter. What I meant was that if people have the choice between a free and a paid version of "roughly" the same product (if you make that incorrect that's perfect! but I was told Forkboy2's work is high quality too) chances are they will go for the free version.

The tree project encouragement was not fake, to my opinion this is one of the few points where X-Plane is really lagging behind (although I have nothing to compare it with).

Again my apologies if you had the impression I wanted to discourage you, it was not my intention at all.  If your signature is correct and you come to Fontainebleau, I'll be glad to share a bouldering session, the best season just started (and mushrooms too :-) 

Cheers

 


 

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On 10/20/2017 at 5:58 PM, brianbash said:

BTW, Cute statement saying I should focus on my tree project. I figured you guys would pop up at some point with words of discouragement. 

I think perhaps you're being too sensitive about this. It's not discouragement, but rather encouragement/advise on what is actually needed. Given there is a free and creating your own orthos is trivial these days, creating a paid version using the same imagery already available for free is wasted effort on your part. What many people don't like about orthos are the fact that they are flat, and adding correct treescapes for orthos for the entire US would be a game changer if someone has the time, data and patience to do it :)

 

 

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12 hours ago, tonywob said:

I think perhaps you're being too sensitive about this. It's not discouragement, but rather encouragement/advise on what is actually needed. Given there is a free and creating your own orthos is trivial these days, creating a paid version using the same imagery already available for free is wasted effort on your part. What many people don't like about orthos are the fact that they are flat, and adding correct treescapes for orthos for the entire US would be a game changer if someone has the time, data and patience to do it :)

 

 

Maybe I am being too sensitive, but this isn't a drag and drop effort to make photo tiles. Not sure if many know of this, but tiles that are downloaded are locked to a size restraint. For example, the largest size of any tile that can be downloaded from Google is 1024x1024. That's it. I've found this out a couple a of ways, mainly 

1) If I wish to export my work in a format specifically for Google Tiles, I need to select the Zoom Level and the size. I am given 3 choices. 256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024. This was confirmed when I tried to substitute my G2XPL scenery with my 4096x4096 tiles. I thought "maybe they will line up" or whatever. Just teaching myself how this stuff is built if you will. Low and behold, my tiles were stretched out 4X their size. So, even though G2XPL has 4096 at the end of the file name, it's really just a 1024x1024 image that has been blown up. That equals a degrade in quality.

I will also offer multiple sets for one to choose at there will. Not only the most recent photos, but photos from the previous 3 years. They are all quite different and give a completely different feel in the simulation. One pre-winter, one post-winter.

Treeline data is a game changer huh? Well buckle up, I don't only have treelines, I've got man-made structures, cemeteries, malls, schools, banks, office buildings, sporting arenas, roads, trails, waterways, wetlands, subdivisions, quarries....for...I don't know I don't feel like counting right now...and not only the USA. How bout some screenshots?

GXHU7E.png

eojAXP.png

xUTPOO.png

And a video to solidify the deal...to bring a personal connection into the whole thing. 

https://www.youtube.com/XjdsC5ep76E

 

Actually, I'm glad you responded because we need to chat. You are a true hero in my eyes and none of this would be possible without your tool. I would like to make sure you're fairly compensated for any sales made.

 

Now, back to work. In MeshTool's readme it has this one bit about orthophoto burning, It states I can use the line "ORTHOPHOTO 0 -72.0 42.0 -71.0 42.0 -71.0 43.0 -72.0 43.0 foo.ter" which will cover a entire tile with an orthophoto. I am going to try just that. Hopefully it works and we can say goodbye to 150,000 texture files.

 

Thanks,

Bash

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Brian, yes I've found the X-Plane development community unfriendly in most cases (there are exceptions). I also agree about your comments about escaping the Internet :biggrin:. I've tried for years to get people working on objects, scenery and maps as a team effort but it never happens (There are little bits of hope now and then, but nothing ever materialises). The reason in my eyes is simple, people want recognition for their work, and working with someone else defeats that purpose. I've had people donate stuff and then demand it back etc, I gave up and moved on to become "self-sufficient" as I call it.

Regarding image tiles, maximum is 4096x4096. You'll probably need to use arcgis or some GDAL script to join and clip up tiles, although I've never used meshtool to make orthos (I used it only for Norway Pro), I think it does that for you given a geotiff. A ZL17 tile at around 35 degrees latitude will require approximately 450 images, and that number will rise as you head further north or south of the equator (or shrink as you head to the equator). You should certainly consider Ortho4XP, but you will likely need to know how to make code changes for it to use your images.

For Conneticut and New York state, does your source have summer textures, because all the ones I found where in winter, which made the treetool I had struggle (You can't generate trees from dead trees :-)). That would be cool if they do, because the area looks so ugly with the orthos I have.

3 hours ago, brianbash said:

Actually, I'm glad you responded because we need to chat. You are a true hero in my eyes and none of this would be possible without your tool. I would like to make sure you're fairly compensated for any sales made.

Whilst I really appreciate this, please note that W2XP can not be used commercially and I have had this in the license clause since day one (Please contact me via PM if you want to discuss this or anything else further). You will also find the same license for most libraries it uses, e.g. OpenSceneryX, R2, etc. so you'll need to get their permission. Yes, I might be putting a downer on things for you here, but it's better to be prepar3d for this if you haven't checked this already. I have continued to develop W2XP and my own libraries but never released them because I have found certain airport developers using my models and program without permisson in payware sceneries, which is really out of order and shows why I have a growing sour-taste for the XP development community. I have absolutely no problem with people using W2XP in freeware sceneries.

The W2XP version I now have is capable of doing much more than the old 0.7.4 version, including using Shapefiles, PostGIS data, scripts, reprojecting, autogen, tracing raster data and maps, tree generation, etc. You can see an example of what I was working on here for California (which used the orthos to generate the trees without relying on third-party data). In reality, I want to improve this by using the USGS landclass data to get the vegetation types correct, and I'm currently trying this in New Zealand.

 

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41 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Brian, yes I've found the X-Plane development community unfriendly in most cases (there are exceptions). I also agree about your comments about escaping the Internet :biggrin:. I've tried for years to get people working on objects, scenery and maps as a team effort but it never happens (There are little bits of hope now and then, but nothing ever materialises). The reason in my eyes is simple, people want recognition for their work, and working with someone else defeats that purpose. I've had people donate stuff and then demand it back etc, I gave up and moved on to become "self-sufficient" as I call it.

Regarding image tiles, maximum is 4096x4096. You'll probably need to use arcgis or some GDAL script to join and clip up tiles, although I've never used meshtool to make orthos (I used it only for Norway Pro), I think it does that for you given a geotiff. A ZL17 tile at around 35 degrees latitude will require approximately 450 images, and that number will rise as you head further north or south of the equator (or shrink as you head to the equator). You should certainly consider Ortho4XP, but you will likely need to know how to make code changes for it to use your images.

For Conneticut and New York state, does your source have summer textures, because all the ones I found where in winter, which made the treetool I had struggle (You can't generate trees from dead trees :-)). That would be cool if they do, because the area looks so ugly with the orthos I have.

Whilst I really appreciate this, please note that W2XP can not be used commercially and I have had this in the license clause since day one (Please contact me via PM if you want to discuss this or anything else further). You will also find the same license for most libraries it uses, e.g. OpenSceneryX, R2, etc. so you'll need to get their permission. Yes, I might be putting a downer on things for you here, but it's better to be prepar3d for this if you haven't checked this already. I have continued to develop W2XP and my own libraries but never released them because I have found certain airport developers using my models and program without permisson in payware sceneries, which is really out of order and shows why I have a growing sour-taste for the XP development community. I have absolutely no problem with people using W2XP in freeware sceneries.

The W2XP version I now have is capable of doing much more than the old 0.7.4 version, including using Shapefiles, PostGIS data, scripts, reprojecting, autogen, tracing raster data and maps, tree generation, etc. You can see an example of what I was working on here for California (which used the orthos to generate the trees without relying on third-party data). In reality, I want to improve this by using the USGS landclass data to get the vegetation types correct, and I'm currently trying this in New Zealand.

 

Hah! Prepar3D...I love it.

 

Lot's to go over but I will just share a couple pics to show the different looks I have available. Lovely Adirondack Regional Airport in Saranac Lake. One look is obviously pre-winter, the other is post-winter.

 

As for the chopping and orthophotos with mesh tool...already handled that situation and it is going just fine.

Ultimately, this is just who I am. I'll make my own library if I must, I'll learn how to do everything with MeshTool eventually if need be, but I will never give up.

 

Totally feel you on the self-sufficient thing. That is why I am working diligently to at least get something in the community gratis, a fire-starter if you will.

 

This has taken a large amount of time to do. All I have right now is time. Single, no kids, no family (well, other than my pets :) and I will not let the unfortunate events that I have endured the past couple years beat me down. I won't get too deep, but I was the victim of a hit-and-run that left me in a coma for 2 weeks 3 years ago. At times, it feels like I have slipped into another dimension...all that I knew changed, seems people didn't feel a need for me anymore. I blame CERN...because...well...why not? :)

 

FbZLqp.png

6ECxQe.png

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15 hours ago, brianbash said:

So, even though G2XPL has 4096 at the end of the file name, it's really just a 1024x1024 image that has been blown up.

Come on... how can you imagine this to be true ? 4K textures are obtained by tiling (16 rows x 16 columns) 256 smaller 256x256 ones (the ones that are downloaded), with no up-sampling of course. 

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On 10/24/2017 at 2:34 PM, Oscar Pilote said:

Come on... how can you imagine this to be true ? 4K textures are obtained by tiling (16 rows x 16 columns) 256 smaller 256x256 ones (the ones that are downloaded), with no up-sampling of course. 

Come on Oscar, give me a break bro. I replaced my G2XPL "4096" files with my personal 4096 tiles but they came out 4X larger than the orignal size. So, I thought that's how it went especially considering when trying to export my tiles in a Goggle Mapping format I have 3 choices, 256, 512, 1024. Getting assistance from anybody is a lost cause, but like I said, I will never give up. Hence why I will be using MeshTool to build my treelines. New York state has a whopping 3,415,132 lines of Poly code just for the tree's.  Photo coming soon in this thread if you care.

 

Just a little advice, word your comments in a more neutral tone on a public forum. I've done PR, Production Management and Audio for Ghost B.C., Slipknot and Crystal Castles so I know a little bit about how public image and a product stand side-by-side.

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