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Missed approach altitude set/not set

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Even after all these years this one often causes me issues and I figured I ask in here if it's me doing something wrong.

My problem is that when you set the FAF altitude on the APP page that will mostly be equal or even higher than the altitude you'll be at when capturing the ILS.

Since the FO will check if the correct missed approach altitude has been set when passing through the FAF altitude the answer will always be 'Missed approach altitude has not been set' since you normally won't set that one until already well established on the ILS or...is it me missing something obvious?

I did find a way around this by putting in a lower altitude than the actual FAF altitude. Let's say I expect to capture the ILS at 2500 ft. I will then set the FAF alt to let's say 1500 ft meaning I will have some time on the ILS to set the missed approach alt before the FO will check if it has been set.

Thanks in advance for any input how everyone else is doing this.

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Maybe I'm missing something, but the FAF is published on the chart and I would enter it prior to the top of drop.

 

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Normally you would be able to find the FAF on the charts yes but still...since this altitude will always? be equal to or higher than the altitude where you'll capture the ILS that also means you will still be descending when the FO checks if the missed appr alt has been set meaning you will still have the alt on the MCP where you're supposed to capture the ILS rather than your missed appr alt.

I'm sure it's me doing something wrong but hey...that's why I asked about it in here so I can get it right :smile:

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Take a look at ILS22L EKCH Richard, as an example. The FAF is lower than the approach intercept altitude.

Not all approaches are equal.

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Guess I need to do some studying of Jeppesen charts because I see the intercept alt for the ILS 22L EKCH is 3000 ft but I'm not sure where I find the FAF.

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The intercept is 3000' but the FAF is at 1600'.

As the missed approach in this instance is also 3000' then you hear 'Missed approach altitude set'.

Just an example.

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But where do you find the FAF in this example is at 1600?

I do see an indication on the approach chart saying 1600 and looking at the other ILSes at EKCH I see this 1600 as well but question is if I'm looking in the right place...

I'm just planning to fly LEMG-LEPA and looking at the ILS06L at LEPA where I expect to land I don't see this same indication on the chart so not sure what the FAF would be here?

 

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The Jeppesen FAF symbol on the EKCH 22L chart is the black impeller at the 1600' mark.

I can only suggest that the ILS06L approach at LEPA the FAF and intercept are at the same point negating the need for the symbol.

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OK, got it. Then at least I know I'm looking in the right place.

I just checked out the various approaches at ESSA and there the FAF seems to be at the same alt where you are expected to intercept the ILS as well and hence the issue I often have with FS2Crew.

Let's say now when I'm going to LEPA where the FAF and ILS intercept altitude are both 1700'. In this case I'll set the FAF alt to 1700 on the APP page in FS2Crew. This will result in the FO saying missed appr alt not set since that is 2000' and I won't set that one until I'm already established on the ILS.

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I don't worry too much about that callout, Richard. I don't think it's telling you you did something wrong. I just see it as a reminder to be sure to call for the FO to set the missed approach altitude once the GS has been captured.

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5 hours ago, wsmeier said:

I don't worry too much about that callout, Richard. I don't think it's telling you you did something wrong. I just see it as a reminder to be sure to call for the FO to set the missed approach altitude once the GS has been captured.

Yep Walter, I guess that is the best way looking at it.

Would be interesting though to hear how it's usually done IRL. To me it makes more sense to run through any kind of checklist after you would have already made sure all is good included on the list given it's a normal situation.

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I am always, always, always leveled off and holding altitude before I capture the glide-slope, so part of my flow is once I am leveled off and approaching the ILS I give the command to FS2Crew to "set missed approach altitude ..." and all is well.  Once in a great, VERY rare while I have one of those STARs that has me gradually descending right into the ILS.  I hate those because it is such a high chance that something might go wrong in the descent and I end up overshooting the G/S.  In those cases I edit the restraints, always deleting the "A" for "At of Above" and force the minimum altitude allowed for that crossing, which gets me down and level before the G/S always.

TLDR:

  1. Get the plane down to FAF altitude and leveled out
  2. Set MA Altitude
  3. Finish your landing as needed

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That is of course one way doing it but I think today IRL the most common type of approach is the so called CDA which pretty much has one single goal - that you should not level off during your descent/approach.

This in order to save both fuel and environment as well as keeping the noise to a minimum.

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