1 minute ago, solentflyer said:

P3D-Forensics will report on ALL changes and will therefore be providing comprehensive, completely unbiased information to the user.

We believe every user is entitled to see all changes being made to their system and are of the opinion that it does not reflect well on any developer to request that we 'hide' information relating to their particular tools.

Best regards,

Dennis

That violates my EULA and terms and conditions that the users has agreed before installing my tools.

If you violate my EULA I asure you will receive a letter from my solicitors..

Best Regards,
Simbol

 

3 minutes ago, simbol said:

That violates my EULA and terms and conditions that the users has agreed before installing my tools.

If you violate my EULA I asure you will receive a letter from my solicitors..

Best Regards,
Simbol

 

If it violates your EULA then he won’t support your software in the tool, simple as that. It’s a win win, your software doesn’t get exposed and he doesn’t get sued 

Hello !

While this can sound as a really good idea at first, I actually think it's not:

If this is tracking what files are installed by each addon  and where, it will simply help all pirates to create RIP files of almost all addons out there.
Some developers have their own methods to do the same thing, and they don't share their methods with their competitor. Your tool will also help every developer to copy other's work very easily. This would break a lot of developer's EULA and just like Simbol I don't want to see anything about TOGA referenced in such a tracking software. Sorry.

I’m sure the developer of this software will sort out all concerns and adjust it accordingly. 

 

8 minutes ago, kmax59 said:

Hello !

While this can sound as a really good idea at first, I actually think it's not:

If this is tracking what file is installed by each addon, it will simply help all pirates to create RIP files of almost all addons out there, this would break our EULA as well and I don't want to see anything about TOGA referenced in such a tracking software. Sorry.

This can be easily achieved by using one of the countless (non-P3D related) installation tracking tools out there. Sole purpose of these tools is to provide transparency about whats being installed/altered on a users system. While i kind of understand the piracy argument, i dont agree that a user shouldnt be allowed to track whats being installed on ones system. 
 

From a different perspective, this would allow devs to install all kind of PUP's without the users consent/knowledge

Thanks for your comments kmax59. Please let me re-assure you that the P3D-Forensics software will not be tracking anything that 'pirates' could not track already. It would be very time-consuming, but also completely possible for anybody to do this tracking manually if they so wished.

We fully anticipated that some developers would be concerned about this software, but we have obviously taken legal advice and are completely confident that the software will not violate any EULAs/terms and conditions that a developer seeks to unfairly impose.

Simbol, by all means, please feel free to talk with your solicitors if you so wish, but I'm afraid they will only confirm our standpoint.

Best regards,

Dennis

2 minutes ago, Woozie said:

 

This can be easily achieved by using one of the countless (non-P3D related) installation tracking tools out there. Sole purpose of these tools is to provide transparency about whats being installed/altered on a users system. While i kind of understand the piracy argument, i dont agree that a user shouldnt be allowed to track whats being installed on ones system. 
 

We are not discussing the tracking of what has been installed, the issue is the tracking of changes to files which certain add-on's do during its normal operations, PTA and TOGA for an instance will adjust your PD3 shaders to improve your simulator experience and if this tool track each of the changes made to these shaders and report them back to the end user or a competitor is breaking the EULA as it can be classified as reverse engeniering.

The issue is not the creation of new files, the issue is revealing what an Add-on is doing to deliver the end result.

My tools are performing changes to effects, if this add-on is going to track these changes is it reversing engineering all the work I have put into my add-on's for months with endless sleepless nights and gain a financial benefit from it, if you consider this fair then up to you.

Best Regards,
Simbol

Just now, simbol said:

We are not discussing the tracking of what has been installed, the issue is the tracking of changes to files which certain add-on's do during its normal operations, PTA and TOGA for an instance will adjust your PD3 shaders to improve your simulator experience and if this tool track each of the changes made to these shaders and report them back to the end user or a competitor is breaking the EULA as it can be classified as reverse engeniering.

The issue is not the creation of new files, the issue is revealing what an Add-on is doing to deliver the end result.

My tools are performing changes to effects, if this add-on is going to track these changes is it reversing engineering all the work I have put into my add-on's for months with endless sleepless nights and gain a financial benefit from it, if you consider this fair then up to you.

Best Regards,
Simbol

Well if you consider this as reverse engineering then you should adjust your own TOS, here's an extract of the relevant part of your AI Lights Reborn addon (which is excellent btw).
 

Spoiler

You are not permitted to:

Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things.
Reproduce, copy, distribute, resell or otherwise use the Software for any commercial purpose.
Allow any third party to use the Software on behalf of or for the benefit of any third party.
Use the Software in any way which breaches any applicable local, national or international law.
use the Software for any purpose that Flight Sim Technologies considers is a breach of this EULA agreement.
Intellectual Property and Ownership
Flight Sim Technologies shall at all times retain ownership of the Software as originally downloaded by you and all subsequent downloads of the Software by you. The Software (and the copyright, and other intellectual property rights of whatever nature in the Software, including any modifications made thereto) are and shall remain the property of Flight Sim Technologies.
Flight Sim Technologies reserves the right to grant licences to use the Software to third parties.

Cant see anything about tracking changes there, do you?

6 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Well if you consider this as reverse engineering then you should adjust your own TOS, here's an extract of the relevant part of your AI Lights Reborn addon (which is excellent btw).
 

  Reveal hidden contents

You are not permitted to:

Edit, alter, modify, adapt, translate or otherwise change the whole or any part of the Software nor permit the whole or any part of the Software to be combined with or become incorporated in any other software, nor decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Software or attempt to do any such things.
Reproduce, copy, distribute, resell or otherwise use the Software for any commercial purpose.
Allow any third party to use the Software on behalf of or for the benefit of any third party.
Use the Software in any way which breaches any applicable local, national or international law.
use the Software for any purpose that Flight Sim Technologies considers is a breach of this EULA agreement.
Intellectual Property and Ownership
Flight Sim Technologies shall at all times retain ownership of the Software as originally downloaded by you and all subsequent downloads of the Software by you. The Software (and the copyright, and other intellectual property rights of whatever nature in the Software, including any modifications made thereto) are and shall remain the property of Flight Sim Technologies.
Flight Sim Technologies reserves the right to grant licences to use the Software to third parties.

Cant see anything about tracking changes there, do you?

My next add-on will create effects at run time to improve your lighting experience, If you track the changes to know what my software is doing it is reverse engineering, and my EULA forbid this.

It is like asking a Magician to reveal the tricks it does.

Simbol

 

 

9 minutes ago, simbol said:

My next add-on will create effects at run time to improve your lighting experience, If you track the changes to know what my software is doing it is reverse engineering, and my EULA forbid this.

It is like asking a Magician to reveal the tricks it does.

Simbol

 

 

Not going to further derail the thread, but you might want to look up what reverse engineering really means. Just one thing...as long as no files are being altered or attempts made to circumvent any measures to protect the code (like encryption), you may struggle to sue anyone for reverse engineering....

 

Perhaps the magician should find other means to protect his tricks (like a good ol' smoke screen) ;)

2 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Not going to further derail the thread, but you might want to look up what reverse engineering really means. Just one thing...as long as no files are being altered or attempts made to circumvent any measures to protect the code (like encryption), you may struggle to sue anyone for reverse engineering....

 

Perhaps the magician should find other means to protect his tricks (like a good ol' smoke screen) ;)

Thanks for your support, right now I am considering drop all further development, what is the point?

S.

2 minutes ago, simbol said:

Thanks for your support, right now I am considering drop all further development, what is the point?

S.

Simbol, don’t be extreme. Yes, it will track changes but it does require skill to implement them in a way that doesn’t look like garbage. If it were so easy, people with tracking tools would be flooding the market with products as high quality as yours, but they don’t. Software developers won’t go the way of the horse and buggy simply because a tool is reporting what changes it made to your sim, not how the software was developed to make those changes in the first place. I’m sure if you don’t want your software to be supported by his tool, he’ll se to it that it isn’t. 

43 minutes ago, solentflyer said:

Thanks for your comments kmax59. Please let me re-assure you that the P3D-Forensics software will not be tracking anything that 'pirates' could not track already. It would be very time-consuming, but also completely possible for anybody to do this tracking manually if they so wished.

We fully anticipated that some developers would be concerned about this software, but we have obviously taken legal advice and are completely confident that the software will not violate any EULAs/terms and conditions that a developer seeks to unfairly impose.

Simbol, by all means, please feel free to talk with your solicitors if you so wish, but I'm afraid they will only confirm our standpoint.

Best regards,

Dennis

Dennis,

You remind me of certain individuals that I have dealt with throughout my adult life that I get a funny feeling about.

Well, I'm pleased to hear that I'm amusing you Hussar 

After further discussion it has been decided that FOR NOW - the topic will remain unlocked. We are discussing a product not released yet and as such no EULA violations or any other violations are evident.

When the product is released - and we all see what it can actually do - then we can revisit EULA discussions. As to "reverse engineering" - just looking at the code through an editor, etc is not reverse engineering - making USE of that "discovered" code, most definitely IS. 

So, for now, let's discuss the merits and/or shortcomings of the proposed project, but let us also keep it civil.

Thanx,

Vic