There is no doubt that all the planes mentioned are really excellent. But although the Realair planes all have great frame rates on my system, I really struggle with the Dreamfleet Baron and the Aeroworx B200. Is there some trick to getting a system to run smoothly with the latter planes? I have to kill the AI, clouds and autogen to get the framerates high enough, otherwise smoothness becomes a real issue.Do you folks get similar results with these planes and accept the poorer result as the price of a complex a/c, or is there something I can do to overcome the choppy view in the VC?Cheers,N.

Well, we're sort of comparing apples and oranges here, when comparing the performance of the Real Air aircraft to the DF A36 and B58. Here's why:1. The Real Air aircraft are mostly VC, there is less 2D cockpit / interior than on the DF aircraft. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact. Add on all that 2D stuff, and, well...2. The DF aircraft, which are six-place aircraft, with large cabins, have both complete, detailed VCs (with things like folding seats, armrests and more), plus complete 2D panel / interior views (we have FOUR 2D main panels + interior views). Now, believe it or not, and meaning nothing against the Real Air aircraft, there are still many in FS who like the 2D panels / interior, that is why we include them.3. The DF A36 and B58 also have some rather complex gauges. Make no mistake about it, a Garmin 430 (A36) and Garmin 530 (B58), simulated to essentially 100% the real thing, are not exactly simple gauges. Add to that the Sandel 3308 EHSI in those aircraft, and we're talking heavy duty complexity. Oh yes, the A36 also has weather radar, and a very good Reality XP radar unit at that.Again, and no offense to anyone, but we're talking apples and oranges here with this comparison.Real Air produces some very fine aircraft but, and although I greatly admire their work, please, do not expect that a smaller aircraft with mostly a VC is the same as a six place aircraft with a VC, complete 2D interior, and complex gauges to be the same thing performance-wise.Both Real Air and DF can only pull off so many "miracles" in this regard.For the most part, as in real life, one does not compare an SF260 to an A36 or B58; they are completely different birds with different mission purposes. :-)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

Thanks for the explanation. I understand the objective with the DF Baron was to produce a detailed model and I'm sure everyone will agree that you have succeeded magnificently. But on my old system the DF Baron and the Aeroworx B200 are off the menu. Anyone care to point to a GA twin (freeware or payware) with a clickable VC and high frame rates? Obviously I have to accept a less detailed model than the B200 or the DF Baron. But surely there must be something out there better than the default Baron? (Stop calling me Shirley)Thanks,N.

I have the B200 and the DF Baron, but I also have and enjoy the FSD Seneca V. It's a really nice little twin. Also their Piper Navajo is nice.Flight 1's Cessna 441 Conquest is a real nice plane and not nearly as complex as the B200.Jim

My system is I think similar to yours except I have 2Gb ram and a 17" monitor.The A36 and the Baron fly perfectly well... the A36 has the occasional load hiccup going to VC and 'out the window" in 2D in high intensity areas- Seattle, NY, etc.at night.... but i love 'em. The care and attention to detail is just outstanding...I was without the A36 for a while...about a month(before I got the baron)and when I reinstalled it, it was like renewing an acquaintance with an old friend..... jeeezz..a little mushy, eh?I would second the possibility of the FSD navajo Panther...it seems to be very stable, pretty clear cockpit...good lighting(always a bugaboo with me)--much simpler in FS design than the DF planes--of course nothing that I've come across is in the same league with the DreamFleet AC...even the B200,well-made as it is..just my amateur opinion,.The other option of course is--if $$ is short is---wait for the DF Twin Comanche and/or Piper Dakota,, droooollll...

Hope I don't post this twice.. it didn't appear before so...My system is I think similar to yours except I have 2Gb ram and a 17" monitor.The A36 and the Baron fly perfectly well... the A36 has the occasional load hiccup going to VC and 'out the window" in 2D in high intensity areas- Seattle, NY, etc.at night.... just my system, though--but i love 'em. The care and attention to detail is just outstanding...I was without the A36 for a while...about a month(before I got the baron)and when I reinstalled it, it was like renewing an acquaintance with an old friend..... jeeezz..a little mushy, eh?I would second the possibility of the FSD navajo Panther...it seems to be very stable, pretty clear cockpit...good lighting(always a bugaboo with me)-- the FSD design is simpler than the 2 DF designs.... of course nothing that I've come across is in the same league with the DreamFleet AC...even the B200,well-made as it is..just my amateur opinion,.The other option of course is--if $$ is short is---wait for the DF Twin Comanche and/or Piper Dakota,, droooollll...

Lou, OK, my ONE and only request,, well, accept the request I made for a Bellanca Viking a while back.. :>)What about---ummm.. I'm afraid to say it... a cockpit.. that... isn't white..there, I've admitted it..That's what I would like... of course maybe all those cockpits you photograph ARE white... I haven't a clue...but... ??

You might want to try the F1 Cessna 421. It was developed for fs2002 and patched to work with 2004. Since it is an older product it isn't as detailed as the latest offerings, but still quite a bit better than the default Baron. The upside is that it has less impact on sim performance than the newer offerings. It only had a small performance impact on my old AMD 1.2 ghz machine and is not noticable on my Pentium 3.0 ghz. I've had it for 2 years and its still one of my favorites. It's rather unique in that the engines have reduction gearboxes and turbochargers. F1 is going to ugrade it for FSX and I'm looking forward to that as much as I'm looking forward to FSX.Good luck in your decision, its a tough one. Near impossible if you trying to narrow it down to one purchase. :-) Ted

>>Anyone care to point to a GA twin (freeware or payware) with a>clickable VC and high frame rates? >Milton Shupe's freeware Beechcraft D18 is excellent, upto what any good payware can offer.Dominique

I use the DF Baron lite on my Dell D810 1.86GHz Pentium M, 1GB, 64 MB X300, and performance is fine for me. I do turn AI off, but everything else is pretty much maxed.There is also the Flying Club Seneca which is supposed to be decent. I don't have it.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com/FC_StartJava.html] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)

"I use the DF Baron lite on my Dell D810 1.86GHz Pentium M, 1GB, 64 MB X300, and performance is fine for me". Welcome to my nightmare! How is it that folks with lower spec systems can run the DF Baron Lite and I can't? Even with FSAutostart, the Baron is not flyable. It's even slower and more choppy than the B200, which is a mighty complex plane. There must be something not optimised on my system.Thanks everyone for the suggested alternatives. I'll follow them up.Cheers,N.

I am a long time simmer, have several payware aircraft, mostly heavy metal and some biz jets, but if I had to pick one . . . it would be the wonderful Cessna 441 Conquest II from Flight1. It doesn't have high end avionics, but it's got plenty of guts, cruises up to 35,000 ft with 635hp twin turboprops, has wonderfully clean and clear 2D and virtual cockpits, very believeable sound, and is just a pleasure to fly. It has a nice manual as well, and isn't too pricey. There are some very nice paints available on avsim, and they install via their Text-o-matic applet.I have a 21" CRT, Sony's old top o the line .22 grill pitch, and I demand the cleanest of graphics else I don't want to play. This thing is tops in this regard, even clearer than the PMDG jets, which are wonderful as well.Noel

OK folks, For 60 Euros I have a new sim. Michael Greenblatt just finished with my system and now I can fly the DF Baron with EVERYTHING maxed out and the sim looking like it has been carved out of granite. Talk about rock solid; it's actually hard to tell if I'm in the VC or the 2D cockpit. No flickers, no stutters, no pauses. And this is at 1600 x 1200 at 85Hz, 4 x AA and 16 x AF. Best 'add-on' I ever bought!Cheers,N.

Thank you for the feedback! this confirms once more that the developper is not always to plague, but the system the software runs on... Hope this helps!

Sure is interesting what some of you think a 'light' GA aircraft is ;)