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Anxu00

Improving Water Appearance in XP11

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XP11 water looks very repetitive and unrealistic.  A while back there is a mod to change its appearance but then LR remove it, when not exactly, but FlyWithLua removed the ability due to LR instruction.  I have not checked recently with 11.11, is there way now to improve the look?  Thanks in advance.

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If I didn´t misunderstood Philipp X-Plane 11.20 shall bring additional water features

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9 hours ago, Anxu00 said:

XP11 water looks very repetitive and unrealistic.  A while back there is a mod to change its appearance but then LR remove it, when not exactly, but FlyWithLua removed the ability due to LR instruction.  I have not checked recently with 11.11, is there way now to improve the look?  Thanks in advance.

I think on the .org you can find several water mods. FlyWithLua still has the ability to modify all the datarefs, you just have to use the Complete edition and not the Core edition.

8 hours ago, Longranger said:

If I didn´t misunderstood Philipp X-Plane 11.20 shall bring additional water features

That'd be great. Did he comment on that lately?

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10 hours ago, Murmur said:

 

That'd be great. Did he comment on that lately?

At 23:00 "New Tesselator for the water maps."

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9 minutes ago, Longranger said:

At 23:00 "New Tesselator for the water maps."

Are you sure he isn't referring to some water depiction on the G1000?

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I am extremly sure. The G-1000 is in no position to use Tesselators for water effects. Don´t forget, the X-Plane G-1000 is much faster than the real units.

But Tesselation for water was originally sheduled for 11.00 .

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Good news then! XP11 water badly needs improvements. Curious to see what results they got.

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1 hour ago, Longranger said:

Well, I would see something in the direction of : https://developer.x-plane.com/2016/10/developer-blooper-reel-water-world/

Bah, humbug... that's a nice effect, and it would be good to see realistic heavy water action in deep water. But it's not the major problem with X-Plane right now.

The major problem is:

1) A weird repeating grid pattern that should be an easy fix, and...

2) A need for different water colors that correspond to different colors in the real world. We need turquoise water in the Tropical shallows, brown water in the Amazon river, so water all over the world doesn't look the same drab color. This needs hydrologic data, but I thought Andras has been saying they've made at least a first step in this direction with v11? But we haven't seen it yet?

And then after that, doing something about the tan-colored beaches that show up as coastlines everywhere. I know there are add-ons for this, but the base sim needs to do a better job with those transition colors between land and water. It looks very unrealistic up here in the PNW and other places where water is deep and islands just drop directly to the water, with no "beach" outline. And where there is a beach, it's not the same tan color all over the world.

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Well, they have something like different water colors in the code for some time, but they were unable to activate the code due to rendering artefacts. I think this is more or less the same problem, that they had with waves. They didn´t have anything for the ground beneath the water surface.

You can bet this was in fact the problem, that they had in this case. The obvious solution in this case is: Lower the water level, since no one would build.below the local water line. We simply see one of the tesselators in our GPUs at work. But the real problem is the border between the land and see.

I

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Next we will have revised waterwash physics for boats !

 

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8 hours ago, Paraffin said:

2) A need for different water colors that correspond to different colors in the real world. We need turquoise water in the Tropical shallows, brown water in the Amazon river, so water all over the world doesn't look the same drab color. This needs hydrologic data, but I thought Andras has been saying they've made at least a first step in this direction with v11? But we haven't seen it yet?

You can see the water color thing at work in some of the HD Mesh v4 sample screenshots from Andras. Here are a few examples:

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12 hours ago, Longranger said:

Well, I would see something in the direction of : https://developer.x-plane.com/2016/10/developer-blooper-reel-water-world/

You can already activate that, by changing a specific dataref to 1 (I think it's called "3d water" or something), but of course it's still a work-in-progress, so there are visual issues.

For the rest, I agree with Paraffin and Jcomm that a more realistic water pattern, colors and physics should be a higher priority for now.

 

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Thanks all for replying.  I downloaded a couple packages from the org and at least for now, I don't have to look at the excessive repetitive pattern.

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Out of curiosity, which packages are you guys using for the water?

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3 hours ago, france89 said:

Out of curiosity, which packages are you guys using for the water?

Hi Francesco,

I'm using the following one:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/39469-another-water-fix-for-xp11/

I find this script the better one because the waves are really well balanced with more natural look and feel and it comes with reflections in the script that you can edit to your taste easily, I tried many scripts and this one is the best for me.

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4 hours ago, alexcolka said:

Hi Francesco,

 

I'm using the following one:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/39469-another-water-fix-for-xp11/

I find this script the better one because the waves are really well balanced with more natural look and feel and it comes with reflections in the script that you can edit to your taste easily, I tried many scripts and this one is the best for me.

 

I don't understand why Laminar doesn't use basically any of these mods themselves.

Just about every one I see looks better than the default water.

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3 hours ago, irrics said:

I don't understand why Laminar doesn't use basically any of these mods themselves.

Just about every one I see looks better than the default water.

I think they may have issues for some wave height settings. For example, the water looks too calm even with high waves (even if still looking better than default, visually).

This will be especially important when LR implements 3D waves. If you try to activate 3D waves using the relevant dataref, you'll probably see weird results when using any of these mods.

in any case, seems LR will work on water visuals for the next release or so, let's see!

 

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One more issue with water is how it affects float planes and boat-hull amphibian planes. We've been talking about how it looks, but there are categories of aircraft that are actually supposed to land on water!

Ideally, there should be a 1:1 correspondence between whatever the sim is showing for winds and wave height, to the actual performance of these planes when taking off and landing on water. Float planes should need fairly calm but not dead-flat water to break surface tension. Boat-hull amphibians, especially large ones like PBY Catalinas, should be able to handle rougher water. 

X-Plane has never gotten this right, and it was seriously borked after v11 launched. I haven't tried a water landing lately so I don't know if it's been fixed for basic calm water landings.

One of these days, I hope there is enough realistic water modeling to show the difference between a small Cessna with floats compared to something big with a boat hull, like a Grumman Albatross. It would be nice to practice water ditching in non-float/amphibious planes too, in a way that was realistic.

Wasn't there a post a while back that said Austin was trying to book time in a real floatplane to work this out? What ever became of that?

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Well, LR recently expanded their staff adding coders for the rendering engine, maybe they could add engineers for coding physics/flight models? (insert devilish emoticon here).

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Better water is only a matter of time. For the time being, I disabled both reflections and FFT water to gain some performance back, comes in handy in VR.

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On 1/11/2018 at 9:48 AM, Murmur said:

Well, LR recently expanded their staff adding coders for the rendering engine, maybe they could add engineers for coding physics/flight models? (insert devilish emoticon here).

I`m going to ask Austin to hire coders from North Korea. ONLY THEN we'll see fast progress.

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