Considering a move to the Dark Side...

[Holdit 551]

I'm running FSX:SE right now and am happy enough with it, but I'm also thinking about the future, and a move to 64-bit simming. Given the cost of moving to P3D, I'm happy to take my time and keep an eye on FSW as it matures, but X-Plane 11 is also nudging its way into my consciousness. I downloaded the demo today and after a couple of quick flights I have to say I'm impressed, and while I don't intended to give up my FSX:SE anytime soon, I'm considering that a gradual phasing-in of X-Plane is something worth thinking about.

To assist my cogitations I'd like to hear from X-Plane pilots about the topics below. I'd particularly to hear from ex-FSX pilots, pilots who fly both regularly or FSX/P3D pilots also considering a move.

• Is there a good range of study-level aircraft available for XP11? Do A2A and PMDG equivalents exist?
• I there an Orbx equivalent? How easy or difficult is it to get good quality add-on scenery for airports and regions?
• Default ATC is supposed to be quite bad with XP11. Well, big deal, because the same is true of FSX/P3D. But what options are there for ATC add-ons?
• Same question again but with regard to weather.
• What is a pain in the neck in FSX/P3D that you can wave goodbye to with X-Plane?
• What is a pain in the neck that a new XP11 pilot must reconcile himself to?
• What are the main selling points and weaknesses of each platform?

Input appreciated, but my aim here isn't a sim vs sim fight, more an honest, cold-eyed assessment of each in terms of strength and weaknesses.

(I haven't put this into the X-Plane forum because I imagine there would be a wider range of experiences here.)

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I would recommend you don't "move" but use both P3D V4.x and XP11 and give up FSX.

Answers to your specific questions:

Is there a good range of study-level aircraft available for XP11? Do A2A and PMDG equivalents exist?

Yes, IXEG, FlyJSim, Rotate MD-80, JF PA28R, even Carenado aircraft seem to work better under XP11 (the Turbo props).  PMDG DC-6, but I think the P3D version is better than XP version.  No A2A but JF PA28R is very good, there are others also (Flight Factor).

I there an Orbx equivalent? How easy or difficult is it to get good quality add-on scenery for airports and regions?

Not yet.  No regions, there's a good airport list but you'll not find as many choices as you would in the P3D/FSX side.

Default ATC is supposed to be quite bad with XP11. Well, big deal, because the same is true of FSX/P3D. But what options are there for ATC add-ons?

Pilot2ATC is good, but ATC overall is still lacking in both platforms even with Add-Ons, especially VFR.  FSW is supposed to be completely re-working the ATC system so I'm interested to see what they come up with.

Same question again but with regard to weather.

Several options, I like xEnviro (but there are other options like SkyMaxx, etc.) on XP side, but HiFi AS4 still wins for weather depiction and especially winds/turbulence/fog.  There is no true winds aloft in XP11 (interpolates two values upper and lower).

What is a pain in the neck in FSX/P3D that you can wave goodbye to with X-Plane?

Nothing, they both require work, sorry utopia "click and go" only exists at the very basic level (aka no add-ons).  Out of the box both are trouble free, it's ONLY when installing Add-Ons/Plug-ins do things start to get complicated (on both sides).  But "out of the box" and "as is" XP11 looks better, especially at night.

What is a pain in the neck that a new XP11 pilot must reconcile himself to?

AI aircraft setup and ground services setup.  P3D/FSX side, UTLive and GSX is much more robust and polished not requiring much user setup

What are the main selling points and weaknesses of each platform?

XP11 PBR and Ortho4XP, better physics for TurboProps.

P3D V4.x more powerful SDK and more content available better shadows more robust weather system and MUCH better water depiction.

I honestly don't think you should pick "just one" try both, both have a lot to offer over FSX.

Cheers, Rob.

[JimmiG 244]

Regarding "regions" - While there are no OrbX regions as such, the HD Mesh scenery by AlPilotX is already very close to OrbX regions in terms of "landclass", roads, mesh etc. It does however not include custom buildings/landmarks so cities look very generic. Many users also bake their own photoscenery with OSM data on top. It's a manual, time consuming process but the results can be very good.

I agree with Rob, dump the ancient FSX (it's nearing 12 years old!) and move to P3D and X-Plane.

[Holdit 551]

Good information there, thanks to you both.

Given the coast of P3D and re-buying certain add-ons, I'm in no hurry to make the move, particularly when FSX:SE isn't giving me any problems and FSW is still an unknown quantity.. I was more thinking about the possibilities of XP11 as an option instead of P3D rather than an addition to it. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't make the move at some point.

[Guest]

There is no dark side, only progress, unless you consider progress dark?   FSW is available today, it's not any more "unknown" than XP11 or P3D. 

FSW, XP11, P3D are all platforms being activity developed and we can only best guess what the future holds for each platform, but FSX:SE is not currently being developed, it is static.

Moving away from FSX:SE will bring you additional costs regardless of platform choice, you "might" be able to get more free-bee or heavily discounted, on your existing FSX:SE products, upgrades going the P3D route.

Cheers, Rob.

[turnandbank 243]

The others have provided good feedback here. I know cost and maintaining yet another platform can be a bit daunting, so I understand you only wanting to add one new sim at this time.

Just thought my personal experience might help to. I'm still on P3D version 2 and have many $ worth of OBRX regions, global, and aircraft built up over the years. I skipped version 3 knowing version 4 would likely be the one to introduce 64bit. Meanwhile, X-plane 11 came along and as much as I love, enjoy and have invested in P3D, I find myself using it only on the rare occasion.

This would not be the case if I were relying on the out of box experience for X-Plane 11. I took small steps at first, but learned how to create ortho scenery with ORTHO4XP, create my own custom overlays with W2XP (experimented with customizing the config file), andlearnt a bit of WED and Overlay editor (free tools for creating scenery and airports in X-Plane). The end result leaves me suspended in an immersive experience that I just don't feel anymore when I go back the P3D.

There's also satisfaction for me in learning how to work with these tools and improve the scenery, especially the areas I frequently fly in.

If you are not so hands on there's plenty of excellent freeware on the .org including ortho scenery and pre generated W2XP scenery such as:
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36327-us-orthophotos/ https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36109-us-west-real-life/
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/34232-gb-pro-v2-detailed-vfr-scenery-for-great-britain/

I use some the later 2 myself, but generate my own ortho scenery to sit below them.

There's so much you can do yourself and so much great freeware available for X-Plane, that you don't have to break the bank to enjoy it. You may have to invest in a large external HD if you are planning to add a lot of Ortho scenery, but that isn't too prohibitive. I certainly don't think you will be disappointed with the journey.

With ORBX coming on board, we can also look forward to more top-notch payware.

[Holdit 551]

44 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

There is no dark side, only progress, unless you consider progress dark?   FSW is available today, it's not any more "unknown" than XP11 or P3D. 

FSW, XP11, P3D are all platforms being activity developed and we can only best guess what the future holds for each platform, but FSX:SE is not currently being developed, it is static.

Moving away from FSX:SE will bring you additional costs regardless of platform choice, you "might" be able to get more free-bee or heavily discounted, on your existing FSX:SE products, upgrades going the P3D route.

Cheers, Rob.

Hmmm...starting to wish I hadn't begun this.

I have a €150 prepaid credit card from work (Chrismas bonus) and I've been delaying using it because of uncertainty about which way to go. While I'm not in a hurry to leave FSX:SE (fine, it's not in development any more but so what, I'm well aware of what it can and can't do), but...I'm also aware that the voucher would cover a copy of P3D v4 and X-Plane 11. My dad used to say that the time to cut a stick is when you see it... I could still leave my FSX setup for PMDG and Majestic and the Razbam Metroliner in the interim - the Metroliner doesn't have a P3DV4 version, and I don't want to rush into buying the NGX and Q400 again. That way I could move Orbx regions off FSX and move them to P3D.

I'm OK on the system requirements although my graphics card is 2GB short of the recommendation (i5 6600K / GTX 1050 6GB).Will they all live happily together on the same SSD?

 

 

[Penzoil3 480]

You need more room. I have a terrabyte drive for P3D, and a separate 500gb drive for X-Plane 11.

[steve310002 1,198]

You can't go wrong with X-Plane 11. There is so much amazing freeware out there and the ability to quickly and easily make your own ortho scenery make it great value for money. Added to this it is being actively developed for with regular updates coming out every month or so. It's a very exciting platform. There are of course some drawbacks such as the weather depiction but this is being worked on with add-ons such as Xenviro helping to improve things and default weather has improved quite a bit at this stage with a variety of freeware sky colours and cloud textures to choose from if you so wish. 

Even if you also use another sim as well such as FSW; X-plane 11 is a no-brainer. Personally I use it 95% of the the time and dabble a little in FSW whenever a new update is released but in my opinion nothing else comes close to X-Plane 11 for the cost (even moreso now with VR which is really amazing). I also prefer the way the sim looks. I find that Prepar3d (I own V3) looks a bit too cartoonish for my tastes and is simply based on an older platform which despite considerable improvements to the engine, does not compare to the look of X-Plane 11 especially night lighting. For sure elements of X-Planes graphics also need improving but when it looks good it can look mind blowing.

[Murmur 3,944]

To add to the excellent posts that have been written, some of the advantages and disadvantages, compared mainly to P3D:

.) the rendering engine works differently, so there are no blurries, nor terrain morphing/pop-up

.) generally speaking, XP seems to suffer less from stutters (there are reports of stutters in XP as well, but they seem to be rarer)

.) better night lighting, both visually and performance wise. Only drawback is the somewhat limited drawing distance of city lights, but some tweaks are available to try to minimize the issue

.) generally, better day-lighting and better atmospheric scattering (especially noticeable at altitude), and some novel visual effects like PBR

.) sloping runways (although some runways can be a little too "rough" compared to RL)

.) more freeware available, even high quality freeware, particularly:

.) good freeware/donationware add-ons for scenery, and the opportunity to easily create photorealistic scenery + 3D buildings (from OpenStreetMap)

.) more recent navdata (and periodically updated)

 

Some disadvantages:

.) IMO, visually the main disadvantages lie in the environmental area, that is:

.) no seasons (some workarounds are available, but they are incomplete compared to the worldwide 4 seasons in FSX/P3D)

.) poor water visuals

.) more limited weather system (again, add-ons available but not at the level of FSX/P3D)

.) poor rain/snow representation, including rainy/snowy runways (think FS2002 or worse)

.) inacuraccies on dawn/dusk lighting (pitch black when there should be plenty of light)

.) as has been said, default AI and ATC have less capabilities compared to FSX/P3D (but there are addons available to improve things)

 

Then, there are some aspects in which XP does things differently from FSX/P3D, so you cannot clearly classify them as dis- or advantages, for example:

.) airports are crowdsourced (we're should be at 5000 and counting), so if nobody submitted a specific airport, you will not have 3D for that airport, only runways, taxiways and aprons. On the other hand, since every submitted airport is custom made, the crowdsourced airports are generally of higher quality compared to default FSX/P3D. Keep in mind that there are also many freeware airports add-ons available, some of remarkable quality. There's also a free add-on that adds generic 3d buildings to all the airports that are still missing them.

.) same for cities landmarks, they've been added only recently so there are only a few big cities landmarks for now, but you can expect constant additions from now on.

.) flight models have their specific highlights and quirks compared to FSX/P3D. Currently, many aircrafts in XP are too sensitive to crosswinds on takeoff/landing, and on some aircrafts the ground effect is broken. However, as in FSX/P3D, the quality of the flight models is highly dependant on the skill of each designer. Helicopters are generally better compared to FSX/P3D.

 

Two final notes:

.) You should have a good PC to exploit all the features of XP (or P3D) compared to FSX, so ideally a good GPU with 4 GB VRAM (or more), at least 16GB RAM, and a good i5 or i7 CPU.

.) XP is planned to go to Vulkan (equivalent to DX12) during the next 12 months or so. The purpose is to have better performance in terms of fps and smoothness, while also improving visuals.

 

[Holdit 551]

On 22/01/2018 at 5:28 AM, Penzoil3 said:

You need more room. I have a terrabyte drive for P3D, and a separate 500gb drive for X-Plane 11.

That's a problem. If I spend on even a 500GB (which I'd say would be plenty - my current FSX folder is still under 215GB), then I can't reach on P3D + AS16 + camera manager, which would be essential. And I see that A2A's Accufeel still isn't available for P3DV4. I think I'll hold off any big changes for now and see how things go. I'm not buying any more FSX-only add-ons anyway now, so if I pick up anything new, it'll be something I can take with me to P3D later at no (or a reduced) extra cost.

[JimmiG 244]

On 2018-01-21 at 9:52 PM, turnandbank said:

There's so much you can do yourself and so much great freeware available for X-Plane, that you don't have to break the bank to enjoy it. You may have to invest in a large external HD if you are planning to add a lot of Ortho scenery, but that isn't too prohibitive. I certainly don't think you will be disappointed with the journey.

With ORBX coming on board, we can also look forward to more top-notch payware.

True, I find X-Plane is much cheaper to maintain than P3D, where it feels like I'm purchasing some new $30 - $60 addon every month.
With X-Plane, no matter whether you fly from big international airports or small OrbX style GA airports, there's lots of amazing freeware available. Of course, there's some top notch payware available too, but I don't feel like it's as essential for X-Plane apart from maybe a few aircraft. Often you can find freeware substitutes that are just as good. I'm glad that more payware developers are diversifying into X-Plane, but it has always been a bit of a tinkerer's sim for me  - Not in the sense of tweaking .cfg files, but rather in the sense that you add little puzzle pieces of freeware and cheap payware to craft a great simming experience tailored for you.

That said, I didn't pay that much to bring my simming over from FSX to P3D. Most addon developers provided updates for free, or at a discount (which might have expired by now of course). Most of the money I've spent on P3D v4 is for new addons that I didn't own in FSX or previous versions of P3D.

[Mikelab6 89]

I am wondering if Xplane has some camera addons like P3D Ezca or Chase plane...

Mike

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Mikelab6 said:

I am wondering if Xplane has some camera addons like P3D Ezca or Chase plane

x-Camera here: https://www.stickandrudderstudios.com/x-camera/

I prefer ChasePlane (P3D side) as it has an easier user interface and supports recording and works better with my XBox controller for camera motion, but they have very similar functionality.

If anyone knows how to get x-Camera to stop drifting when using axis assignments on my XBox controls, please let me know ... ChasePlane works very well with my XBox controller and it makes for some unique and wonderful camera work.

Cheers, Rob.

[Anxu00 176]

Back to the OP: Ask yourself what kind of flying you do and enjoy the most with your current setup.  For airliner sims, P3Dv4 is the only way to go with comprehensive weather, GSX, AI.  IF you enjoy GA and good scenery, XP11 and SkyMAxxPro and FSGW weather is a very good combo with Ortho4XP.  That's how I use both sims.