No flare with auto land

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

 

...it's a bit like discussing red wine and white wine and diverting the discussion into when, exactly, one should open a red in order to let it properly breathe. We're still on red v white.

Open both dear boy!

But make sure you capture the one before you start on the other!

Then, sit back and enjoy the glide slope down!

[Mike777 163]

8 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

All up to you, honestly. This is a separate issue, however. You're referring to when to hit either. This thread is related to selecting LOC before APP.

...it's a bit like discussing red wine and white wine and diverting the discussion into when, exactly, one should open a red in order to let it properly breathe. We're still on red v white.

Actually, this thread was originally about why the O.P.'s aircraft isn't flaring.  I gave a suggestion for that issue that no-one else gave.  I also made it clear that I was addressing a different, but related issue.

 

11 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Odd mistake given the obvious clearance format.

I'll let other readers of this thread judge how clear it is as to who was saying what.

Mike

 

[rennman 4]

On 3/20/2018 at 1:53 PM, zsolt23 said:

 most likely were flying the Ils in a degraded mode

How do I determine and/or manipulate degraded mode?

[rennman 4]

On 3/20/2018 at 2:16 PM, downscc said:

...meaning that the flare mode is armed and ready.

How do I arm flare mode?

[Mike777 163]

10 minutes ago, rennman said:

How do I determine and/or manipulate degraded mode?

If you don't see "Land 3" and you do see an EICAS message "No Autoland," the aircraft has detected that it is too fast, flaps are not sufficiently extended, or something else is not configured properly and you are too close to landing for it to be fixed.  You can either land manually, autopilot disconnected, or go around and try again

8 minutes ago, rennman said:

How do I arm flare mode?

You don't arm it, but it should show as armed (in white) on the FMA, at top of PFD, if everything is OK for an autoland.  I don't recall off hand at what point it will show, but I would be surprised if it didn't show as you get near touchdown, if you have "Land 3" and still have the autopilot engaged.

Mike

Edited March 21, 2018 by Mike777

[Mike777 163]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:05 AM, rennman said:

Hi...I have vor/loc and app engaged...she flies the ILS approach the whole way perfectly, but does not flare...What am I missing?

This question may have gotten lost in all the replies, so I'll ask again:  How fast were you going on final and how heavy was the aircraft?  For a given glideslope, the faster the plane goes, the faster it descends.  Since I'm sure inertia is modeled correctly, it might have too much inertia to flare, which = slow the descent.  Also if the plane is very heavy, it might have too much inertia to slow the descent properly.

Mike

Edited March 21, 2018 by Mike777

[Mike777 163]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:05 AM, rennman said:

Hi...I have vor/loc and app engaged...she flies the ILS approach the whole way perfectly, but does not flare...What am I missing?

You might want to take a look at FCOM V2, page 4.20.13, pdf page 329

Mike

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

14 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

No. In any case, you should use APP unless you have a specific reason to use LOC. This whole LOC-before-APP simmism needs to die a quick but painful death...

Do note that the post you quoted makes no reference to a specific aircraft, and only makes exception for a very specific case, using language related to case, not aircraft, nor anything else.

The specific case is as follows:
"Southwest 422, fly heading 360 to join the runway 33L localizer, maintain 4000." <HDG SEL: 360; LOC press; 4000 dialed in>
[Readback]
"Southwest 422, 3 miles from JANNS, maintain 4000 to JANNS, cleared ILS Runway 33L approach." <APP press>

The above is rarer and usually found in places where the minimum vectoring altitude is above the approach altitudes, such as in the case of ROA.

 

The usual case is the following:
"Lufthansa 418 heavy, 5 miles east of MOSBY, turn right heading 340, maintain 3000, cleared ILS Runway 1L approach." <HDG SEL: 340; APP press, yes, right to APP; 3000 dialed in>

The first situation you typed out happens quite a bit at ORD. 

I get instructions to intercept the localizer well before I'm actually ever given an explicit approach clearance...especially when they are doing long finals and keeping guys down quite a bit ways out.

By the way, last I assumed....you worked with the FAA...Do you get jumpseat privileges or no?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

14 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

By the way, last I assumed....you worked with the FAA...Do you get jumpseat privileges or no?

No jumpseats for me.

It was mostly work out at the Command Center / TRACON, so I spent my day around controllers and traffic managers, and would occasionally get out onto the floor to observe and listen in (a bunch of my friends are now controllers, too). Moved more into HQ work for a few years before dropping it entirely (still contracting, just not with the FAA).

I was also in PUBNATs 8 and 9, so I spent a ton of time studying the .65, and controlling on VATSIM in an effort to get a leg up on people when I got to the academy.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

2 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

No jumpseats for me.

It was mostly work out at the Command Center / TRACON, so I spent my day around controllers and traffic managers, and would occasionally get out onto the floor to observe and listen in (a bunch of my friends are now controllers, too). Moved more into HQ work for a few years before dropping it entirely (still contracting, just not with the FAA).

I was also in PUBNATs 8 and 9, so I spent a ton of time studying the .65, and controlling on VATSIM in an effort to get a leg up on people when I got to the academy.

My wife is at ZAU. So did you actually go through the academy? I remember when my wife went through it......it sucked the worst ever.

[BlueStar 323]

19 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

By the way, last I assumed....you worked with the FAA...Do you get jumpseat privileges or no?

After the PATCO controller strike, I would not let any controllers on my jump seat.  

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

3 hours ago, Bluestar said:

After the PATCO controller strike, I would not let any controllers on my jump seat.  

Why not?

[BlueStar 323]

CRM. 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

7 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

My wife is at ZAU. So did you actually go through the academy? I remember when my wife went through it......it sucked the worst ever.

Nice!

Never got to the academy. One drive through OKC on the move back to DC from Phoenix, and I realized that a couple months there would be more than I was willing to handle - haha. Totally understand your pain.

[rennman 4]

first...thank you for all of your responses...second, i apologize for not answering each one...there are so many it would get messy!...but ill try any way...i can confirm that my weights/speeds config are all in order...THE PLANE DOES FLARE...but it reduces the rate of descent only about 200 fpm...if my rate of descent is -700 fpm...(dictated to hold glideslope) i land at -500 fpm at best...im looking for -250 fpm or less for a "kiss" touchdown...

the only thing i can think of is tweaking the config file to make the flare more sensitive...im thinking of increasing the trim sensitivity...???

Edited March 24, 2018 by rennman