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I was looking at Flight Radar 24 on my phone today and saw an Air China make a left turn over  Pennsylvania and  headed to Newark instead of KIAD.  

https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=ZBAA&destination=KIAD

The detail page appears to show it landed.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA817/history/20180405/0525Z/ZBAA/KIAD

I was just curious how I might get more information about why it changed direction. This shows the flight path

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA817/history/20180404/0525Z/ZBAA/KIAD

 

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Looks like there was some storm buildup in the area, may have had to divert, not uncommon to look for a hole in a broad front like that.

John

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Posted (edited)

Storm makes sense, also Newark is on the Amtrak Line so that is easy for passengers to use Amtrak to get to Washington instead as trains run quite a lot instead of waiting for another flight, minimal disruption. 

Edited by Matthew Kane

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It’s a lot easier to add some gas, wait 20 minutes for the cell to pass and then take off for your original destination, than it is to arrange buses and amtrak tickets for 200 people.

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On 4/5/2018 at 8:02 PM, KevinAu said:

It’s a lot easier to add some gas, wait 20 minutes for the cell to pass and then take off for your original destination, than it is to arrange buses and amtrak tickets for 200 people.

Taking off out of Baltimore once our pilot decided to put us on a ground hold to wait for a vicious line of thunderstorms to pass by.  It would have wasted more fuel to go north or south around them.  We waited, the rather vicious storm front went by with lightning everywhere, you could feel the winds rocking the plane on the ground.  In twenty minutes it was all over except for a steady rain and we took off and proceeded west towards SFO with no more diversions or delays.  The pilot did what was right and more efficient, and we did not have to take on more fuel.

John

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Airlines don't put you onto Amtrak, you just tell them you are going to take the train and they usually give you a voucher as it frees up them trying to put you on another flight. Then you can just walk down to the platform and jump on, the conductor will sell you a ticket. I've done this before and usually the train will beat the connecting flight anyways, trains also take you right into the city so that beats having to get from the airport into the city as well.

When you find yourself in Newark for whatever reason you have other options and the airlines are happy to let you take the train instead. 

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Posted (edited)

You don’t need to ‘connect’ from a diversion. If you are talking about buying a fake routing that connects somewhere to game a cheaper price with no intention of making the connection, that’s fine, but it has nothing to do with a diversion. Besides, that Air China flight was an international flight, good luck talking them into letting you off at an unplanned stop when you still have to clear customs.

Edited by KevinAu

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6 hours ago, KevinAu said:

You don’t need to ‘connect’ from a diversion. If you are talking about buying a fake routing that connects somewhere to game a cheaper price with no intention of making the connection, that’s fine, but it has nothing to do with a diversion. Besides, that Air China flight was an international flight, good luck talking them into letting you off at an unplanned stop when you still have to clear customs.

Wow you always take things too literally, Majority on here won't be on an Air China flight as we just fly around domestically, I was speaking in general, let me say it again:

When you find yourself in Newark for whatever reason you have other options and the airlines are happy to let you take the train instead. 

This is from experience and sometimes the train is a welcome change compared to dealing with the airlines, especially during storms. If you were trying to get to Philly for example and you end up in Newark instead, chances are better off talking to the ticket agent, get a voucher, jump on the train and the train will drop you right in the city, chances are better for you this way. Newark us unique because the rail line couldn't be any closer for you that connects from Boston all the way down to Washington, best airport in that region of the world.  :cool:

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Matthew, Newark certainly beats trying to get to Amtrak from either LaGuardia or JFK, that's for sure! :biggrin:

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4 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Matthew, Newark certainly beats trying to get to Amtrak from either LaGuardia or JFK, that's for sure! :biggrin:

That's my favorite whenever going to New York, I was so happy that Train Sim World did that route recently, Penn Station is crazy mayhem and still has a bit of the 1970's feeling that it reminds me of the Superman movies with Christopher Reeve, and Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor living down in this tunnels.  :biggrin:

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5 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Wow you always take things too literally, Majority on here won't be on an Air China flight as we just fly around domestically, I was speaking in general, let me say it again:

When you find yourself in Newark for whatever reason you have other options and the airlines are happy to let you take the train instead. 

This is from experience and sometimes the train is a welcome change compared to dealing with the airlines, especially during storms. If you were trying to get to Philly for example and you end up in Newark instead, chances are better off talking to the ticket agent, get a voucher, jump on the train and the train will drop you right in the city, chances are better for you this way. Newark us unique because the rail line couldn't be any closer for you that connects from Boston all the way down to Washington, best airport in that region of the world.  :cool:

I’m sorry, I hadn’t realized we weren’t talking about the opening poster’s question about an international Air China diversion anymore.  Because your comment just made no sense for what to do after a diversion since during a diversion, you are already sitting aboard your flight and there is no need to ‘wait for another flight.’ I also did not realize you were generally speaking about Newark’s specific uniqueness. 😘

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6 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Wow you always take things too literally, Majority on here won't be on an Air China flight as we just fly around domestically

I'm a little confused here, as I thought the original discussion at the start of the thread was about the Air China flight.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

I'm a little confused here, as I thought the original discussion at the start of the thread was about the Air China flight.

No, I believe Mr Kane changed the topic to what Matthew Kane would do if he was not on Air China coming from overseas and diverting to Newark, but rather what Matthew Kane would do if he missed his domestic connection in Newark to DC or Boston. Clear?

Edited by KevinAu

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

I'm a little confused here, as I thought the original discussion at the start of the thread was about the Air China flight.

My comment was that if you were going to any of these cities, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Washington and due to weather you landed in Newark instead like this flight did, and if you have to wait for weather to clear or be put on connecting flights etc this can take a lot of time..... However Newark has an advantage over any other airport because it has an Amtrak station right at the terminal. If you get stuck for a period of time the train will beat a plane to you your destination in many cases. 

If you Google Acela vs Flying, tons of articles on how the train can beat the plane in this rail corridor due to the train dropping you right in the center of a city. It is the only rail corridor in the USA that can be more efficient then Flying similar to Germany or France that has better rail infrastructure. one disadvantage is the Acela doesn't stop in Newark but it does stop one stop north an NJ Penn, which is minutes away, so you could go either Amtrak or connect onto Acela which is even faster, either way trains will get you through storms quite well instead of waiting for your airline in the terminal.

Kevin was saying they may not have cleared customs in Newark, Maybe they did or maybe they didn't. at any case if the option is there for you, this is something unique about Newark

Edited by Matthew Kane

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Posted (edited)

Are we being general or are we being unique?

Anyways, you’re obfuscating different things in your head.  You are mixing up in your mind a connection with a diversion. If you divert to Newark because of weather, there is no reason to ‘wait for a connecting’ flight. That makes no sense, Matthew. You are already sitting on your plane that is supposed to go to where you are going. There is no connecting flight.

When a flight diverts to an alternate, Matthew, the flight is not complete. A plane that diverted to an alternate airport is only making a fuel stop, it is not how that flight ended. Where everybody gets off, and the airline says bye bye, or finds them a connection, or puts them on a bus, train or boat.  Only in extreme extenuating circumstances (9/11/01, serious mechanical failure, hurricane etc) will there be any of the above in play. The plane may not even pull into a gate where anybody can even get off. It is there solely to ‘gas n go’. It then takes off asap to the original destination.  There is no need for a connection, again because that plane, except for hell or high water, is going to be sent right back to that place it diverted away from.

Edited by KevinAu

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18 minutes ago, KevinAu said:

Are we being general or are we being unique?

Anyways, you’re obfuscating different things in your head.  You are mixing up in your mind a connection with a diversion. If you divert to Newark because of weather, there is no reason to ‘wait for a connecting’ flight. That makes no sense, Matthew. You are already sitting on your plane that is supposed to go to where you are going. There is no connecting flight.

HAHA not worth it Kevin for a walk :biggrin:

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1 minute ago, Matthew Kane said:

HAHA not worth it Kevin for a walk :biggrin:

Bye bye. 

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Heh-heh-heh---

Great examples of why I never fly commercial anymore.  For the past 20 years I go Amtrack all the time.  I think I've covered every transcontinental route during that time.  Word of caution though.  If you are a clock watcher realize Amtrack is notoriously late.  I never book same day connections when I have to change trans in Chicago.

Noel

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19 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Word of caution though.  If you are a clock watcher realize Amtrack is notoriously late. 

Yeah, the problem is there's only a single track for most places, and the freight trains seem to get priority for some reason.

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Freight trains get priority because they own the track.  The rule is they allow Amtrak priority as long as Amtrak is on schedule.  Once an Amtrak train falls behind schedule freights have the right of way.

It's worse n the northern corridor especially in North Dakota.  The oil trains are so long they wont fit on the sidings so Amtrak has to make way for them.  My wife and I took the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago two summers ago and were 7 hours late arriving in Chicago.  It doesn't bother me because I never schedule same day connections and I like riding on the train anyway.

I prefer the train to be running late when I travel from Albuquerque to Los Angeles.  If it is on time it rolls down Cajon Pass (great scenery) early in the morning when it is still dark.  If it is late I get to see the route.

Noel

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Just now, birdguy said:

Freight trains get priority because they own the track.  The rule is they allow Amtrak priority as long as Amtrak is on schedule.  Once an Amtrak train falls behind schedule freights have the right of way.

It's worse n the northern corridor especially in North Dakota.  The oil trains are so long they wont fit on the sidings so Amtrak has to make way for them.  My wife and I took the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago two summers ago and were 7 hours late arriving in Chicago.  It doesn't bother me because I never schedule same day connections and I like riding on the train anyway.

I prefer the train to be running late when I travel from Albuquerque to Los Angeles.  If it is on time it rolls down Cajon Pass (great scenery) early in the morning when it is still dark.  If it is late I get to see the route.

Noel

What is really sad is Amtrak pulled out of Phoenix, a major US City, years ago.  You have to drive an hour south to Maricopa in the middle of nowhere to catch an Amtrak train.  In Europe I loved the train system.  Trains were generally ontime +/- one minute everywhere, especially in Switzerland.  I cannot understand why the US has not caught up to Europe but likely it is due to our love affair with car and air travel.  We are just in too much of a hurry and don't want to take the time to enjoy the scenery and people and flower and cattle watch.  Still whenever I fly commercial or fly one of my rare Light Sport flights, I feel this odd benevolence as I look down at the world down there, even when I sim, as if Sherwin Williams covers the earth.  I feel a peace I cannot describe.  I used to listen to music nonstop on my flights which in my prime were once every 5-6 days but then I just fell in love with the hum of the turbofans, or rush of the turboprops, or chop chops of the helicopters I have flown on, and the sweet sound of piston aircraft hearing the disharmonized purr of the engines.

John

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Would have been great to see a St. Louis to Chicago to Minnesota line that cuts through Milwaukee using high speed rail, this area could easily support it but unfortunate those political types never agree and no funding for it. America is the land of the car 

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