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cavaricooper

B747-8 Beta PIREP

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5 hours ago, skelsey said:

I don't know, but my guess:

Automating the fuel system would require a complete redesign of the FSMCs and other associated equipment. All this work would need to be tested and certified and that would cost an awful lot of money for very little reward.

It would also be another difference to the 744 which would creep closer to a separate type rating, something which would be very unpopular with airlines - why 'upgrade' if you're going to have to spend millions retraining your entire workforce?

Its also part of the reason the 748 sold so poorly, wrote a business research paper on it too. Speaking strictly design (and sinplifying a lot), the similarities to the 744 is part of why the 748 struggled.

The A380 had a truckload of ergonomic and advanced cockpit and cabin features that simply made it more popular to use. That and the A380 had first mover advantage being released sooner. To a certain extent many of the 748 critics said it was just a -400 with a facelift and were upset it didn’t have the new stuff the 787 brought.

In Boeings defence, its cheaper to design and manufacture a plane with similar systems. Also cheaper for airlines who do not have to re train pilots. 

Anyway, none of this matters anyway as airline economics have made 4 engine jets very unpopular as the 777,787,A330,A350 can do the same job much cheaper. No longer economically sensible (demand patterns have changed) to pack a jumbo to the max for a few intercontinental flights a week between hubs. These days a large twinjet flies the same route with medium to full load multiple times a day, multiple times a week. 


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I hear the argument, but in the middle of  a North Atlantic Gale, I would still rather have 4 engines available on-board.

That said, I’m not paying the fuel bill.

I love her too much to agree with any bean-counter on this issue... but I’m enough of a realist to know where the future lies.

This makes me even more glad PMDG took this lovely on. Together with this week’s Fly Tampa Kai Tak upgrade, it will be possible for me to revel in the Fragrant Harbor forever :).

”Max thrust, Let’s go!”

C

 

Edited by cavaricooper

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Carl Avari-Cooper

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2 hours ago, captainsazzman said:

Anyway, none of this matters anyway as airline economics have made 4 engine jets very unpopular as the 777,787,A330,A350 can do the same job much cheaper.

Maybe.. but I wouldn't claim that as a blanket statement.  Much cheaper in passenger service maybe, but if your toasters don't mind an enroute fuel stop at Anchorage or if your twin cannot lift near the load that the -8F can on the Louisville - Dubai leg then you are going to love the economics of the four engines.  Note  also the lack of A380s in cargo service, that bird was not designed for cargo.  The original 747 was designed for cargo because they really didn't expect many to sell to the passenger market in spite of Juan Tripp's enthusiasm.  And in my opinion  the only reason it did sell to the pax market was because of the long delays in getting the regulators to modernize ETOPS to match the technology.  Now that those regulations are allowing twins on ETOPS 330 routes the market for quads is exactly what the Boeing pioneers expected it to be.  This beauty is going to be hauling for a very long time.


Dan Downs KCRP

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In my world, there will always be a place for four engine jets.

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Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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2 hours ago, downscc said:

Maybe.. but I wouldn't claim that as a blanket statement.  Much cheaper in passenger service maybe, but if your toasters don't mind an enroute fuel stop at Anchorage or if your twin cannot lift near the load that the -8F can on the Louisville - Dubai leg then you are going to love the economics of the four engines.  Note  also the lack of A380s in cargo service, that bird was not designed for cargo.  The original 747 was designed for cargo because they really didn't expect many to sell to the passenger market in spite of Juan Tripp's enthusiasm.  And in my opinion  the only reason it did sell to the pax market was because of the long delays in getting the regulators to modernize ETOPS to match the technology.  Now that those regulations are allowing twins on ETOPS 330 routes the market for quads is exactly what the Boeing pioneers expected it to be.  This beauty is going to be hauling for a very long time.

Of course, like I said, a simplification to avoid me re-writing my entire = research paper. Also, I was speaking purely in terms of passenger service. As far as cargo goes, Boeing pretty much owns it, as the design of the 747 airframes (past and present) in general to support and easily transfer to freight is a commercial genius, no doubt about that. You don't see any cargo A340s at your local airport do you, haha. They may have the A330F or A300F, but Boeing has the 747F, 777F, 767F, 757F, 737F(though its basically a retrofit) and plans for a 787F and MAXF (according to analyst speculation).

Yep, the A380 is struggling too, even as a passenger liner. For example, Singapore recently got rid of its earlier A380s and got some 787-10s instead.Airbus is desperately trying to win more A380 sales with its (in my opinion, rushed) A380PLUS scheme. They still haven't sold enough to make the A380 programme truly profitable.

Also yes, ETOPS is one of the reasons quad engines are dying out (even A340s, Airbus is considering ending the program where it is if it hasn't already, haven't followed up on that).


Flying Tigers Group

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Hi folks,

I love the 747-400, -8, 

If you want to see a good movie about the haulers, check out,,   "Living in The Age Of The Airplane",  A Nat Geo production, narration, by the great, Harrison Ford. Beautiful music also.  Bill Gates, said this did more for mankind then anything else. Look where technology   is today.

I have a  blueRay copy, and show my friends all the time.

Regards,

Jerry Friz

Edited by jfriz

“The Wright Brothers created the single greatest cultural force since the invention of writing. The airplane became the first World Wide Web, bringing people, languages, ideas, and values together.” – Bill GatesBoeing777_Banner_Pilot.jpg

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Good stuff Jerry I'll have to track that down.

I'm looking forward to the -8, but for me to get the most out of it I'll be flying various liveries to destinations that are not flown to in the real world.  Not that something like that bothers me, as I take the 737s anywhere I think I can land.  I'll be doing the same with the -8.

Mark Trainer

Edited by mtrainer

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14 hours ago, mtrainer said:

Good stuff Jerry I'll have to track that down.

I'm looking forward to the -8, but for me to get the most out of it I'll be flying various liveries to destinations that are not flown to in the real world.  Not that something like that bothers me, as I take the 737s anywhere I think I can land.  I'll be doing the same with the -8.

Mark Trainer

That is why I love having an Atlas livery, those guys might fly to Ramstein AB one day and Santiago the next.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Dan, I do the very same.. I know a lot of the real life Atlas pilots.

Jerry

Edited by jfriz

“The Wright Brothers created the single greatest cultural force since the invention of writing. The airplane became the first World Wide Web, bringing people, languages, ideas, and values together.” – Bill GatesBoeing777_Banner_Pilot.jpg

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This is what draws me to freighters... they go to the far reaches of the world, and OFF the beaten track, frequently.

C

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Carl Avari-Cooper

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1 hour ago, jfriz said:

Dan, I do the very same.. I know a lot of the real life Atlas pilots.

And we have a few Atlas pilots who post here regularly as well.

I'm certainly moving my Atlas textures from the -400 to the -8 when I get her. 😉  (hoping that will be soon...well "PMDG soon" and my soon are 2 different time scales....LOL)

 

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Regards,

Steve Dra

Download my paints here at Avsim by clicking here

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Steve-

If you paint it, they will come/fly 🙂

C

Edited by cavaricooper

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Carl Avari-Cooper

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7 hours ago, cavaricooper said:

Steve-

If you paint it, they will come/fly 🙂

C

LoL!   Not  sure about that Carl, but I sure wish Lufthansa bought the freighter...would love to paint a non-fictional -8 box-hauler in that livery.   Well, since in the real world it would wear the new livery that I'm not found of...at least not yet, I'd still be painting a fictional livery if I did put her in Lufty's best livery.🙄


Regards,

Steve Dra

Download my paints here at Avsim by clicking here

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