TBM-900 for X-Plane released

[Seven7 148]

I didn't know mockery was here a option. I was polite, I was thinking I will receive a polite answer. So, I will avoid this topic. Sorry if my critic was not 120 % positive.

Have a good day.

[GoranM 3,770]

Well, in all fairness, I've been simming since FS98, and I've never heard anyone say, "I don't like it because it's too realistic." and "It should come with a warning about the realism."
If we did that, it would come across as extremely arrogant.

 

[Seven7 148]

Sorry, Goran, but I never said that.. I said, "let the choose to people", and that's something very different. It's not really polite to change the words of someone. All others developers are doing that, letting the choose, so I don't really see where is the problem. Anyway, this close this discussion for me, I'll not argue for days about this, I understood you don't like critics.

[GoranM 3,770]

I'm not arguing.  I'm elaborating.  And you did say this...
 

On 7/12/2019 at 8:11 PM, Julia said:

It's a great plane but.. It have not the "Ready to fly" option and that's a serious disappointment to me as I like sometimes just flying without having to do all theses startup procedures. Also, If I set my preferences with "no failures".. it have no effects, I still get failures here and there, I've even see my engine in fire (??)... So there is not really a possibility about a learning curve.

I understand some people like to have this as it, real flying and blabla... I like also, sometimes. And sometimes I like things more relaxed. For 67 $ I was hoping to have at least the options Xplane have... available. It will be pretty nice if Xaviation warn their customers about this. It's pretty sad but this plane will now stays in.. the hangar 🙂

 

And then @yidahoo replied with this, which IS found on the product page for the TBM...
 

On 7/12/2019 at 8:29 PM, yidahoo said:

I am sorry but for $65 you are getting a study level sim, and it is expected that you have to follow procedures. This is actually from their marketing blurb 

" this Hot Start product is one of the most sophisticated, study sim level aircraft available for X-Plane! Real world pilots test and assist in the development of these products, and real world procedures are followed"

That is pretty much stating there is no jump in a go mode and kind of debunks the idea that there should be some warning about it not having an "easy" mode. 

With that said you can pretty much start the TBM in under two minutes by following the procedures, its not an Airbus. It's a matter of a few clicks to get it started and ready to fly. 

And going by your, what appears to be "broken English" (no offense intended at all), I understood you meaning "the learning curve of this aircraft is too steep and I want to choose between basic and advanced".  This is not something easily done with this particular add on, and would require a massive code rewrite.

And because of my interpretation of your words, you then accuse me of putting words in your mouth by saying this...

28 minutes ago, Julia said:

Sorry, Goran, but I never said that.. I said, "let the choose to people", and that's something very different. It's not really polite to change the words of someone. All others developers are doing that, letting the choose, so I don't really see where is the problem. Anyway, this close this discussion for me, I'll not argue for days about this

And then finally, you say this...

28 minutes ago, Julia said:

I understood you don't like critics.

Absolutely and completely untrue.  Whoever told you this is simply, a liar.  I depend on peoples criticisms.  We've listened to many of them, and we have implemented many additions and fixes based off peoples criticisms.  We have a dedicated DISCORD server where we actually invite people to actively interact with us, giving us suggestions and criticisms, and we do what we can.  So please, I would appreciate it if YOU did not change MY words.

Have a great day, and I will not discuss this further, unless you wish to do so.

Regards,

Edited July 14, 2019 by GoranM

[Greazer 1,321]

This person should be more than happy enough with default aircraft. Just press start engines and Go. If they Must pay somebody, buy a Carenado or Just Flight model.

[GoranM 3,770]

4 hours ago, Greazer said:

This person should be more than happy enough with default aircraft. Just press start engines and Go. If they Must pay somebody, buy a Carenado or Just Flight model.

I find myself revisiting this thread every once in a while. 

What can I say.  We can't please everyone all the time.  No matter what we do.

I do take offence to what @Julia said with the "You cannot take criticisms..." remark.  We copped a fair bit in the first week, and we released an update EVERY SINGLE DAY in that first week.  After that, people complained about the ground handling.  Changed.  People complained about the rain in VR.  Fixed.  

Like I said...there's just no pleasing some people.  Part of me tells me they just like to complain for the attention.

All the other stuff is a shrug of the shoulders. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by GoranM

[Greazer 1,321]

56 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Like I said...there's just no pleasing some people.  Part of me tells me they just like to complain for the attention.

It is what it is, they can't all be pleased all the time!  But if you keep making planes like the 900 it will please many people, enough to make it worthwhile 😉 

[Seven7 148]

so, Goran, still in this? And you say i'm looking for some attention but it's you keeping writing here... You was offended because I said you don't accept criticism?

Let me say this then : I was mostly insulted with mockery and sarcasm when I just and only said I'd like to choose between simple and advanced mode.
When someone tell me something I don't agree, I try to use arguments, I don't insult with mockery and sarcasm.

Everyone here can look at all my posts in this forum, they will notice, it's very very rare I say something negative. But I do not like being insulted.

You've let people think I like only very simple mode, which it's false, I like simple and advanced, depend my mood, I guess like lot of people here.

If someone here have to feel offended, it's me I think. Now I hope, this will stop this discussion going nowhere.

And sorry for my.. broken English, like you said... I'm just enough polite to try to write in your language.

[GoranM 3,770]

1.  I never mocked you or was sarcastic towards you.

2.  You understand we don't accept criticism, but you are wrong.  We welcome it.

3.  A word of advice...please read the add on description in the store, before making a purchase.  A lot of work does go into it, so the customer is very well informed before buying.  It will save you, and others, a lot of trouble.

4.  Have a nice day.  I hope you find the aircraft you are looking for. 

[Greazer 1,321]

Clearly this person is running on empty and are only here to stir trouble due to emotional issues. At the end of the day you accepted their money. The transaction is done. Now they can fly away.

[aentwis 61]

It is a strange experience reading threads like this. As a teacher of English I am regularly confronted by problems occurring from misinterpretation and misunderstanding. I have to admit I cannot see how Julia was mocked in any way by Goran. CameronXA's comment is a little tongue-in-cheek, but if Goran mocked Julia, then I simply don't see it...

In fact, the only reason for not having purchased the TBM on my part is the sheer fact that I haven't got the time at the moment. I already have a number of interesting addons that I wanted to get to know. It is on my list and the developer's interaction with the community is positive as far as I can tell. I hope for Julia's sake that it is simply a case of misunderstanding/misinterpretation...

A

[Alan_A 1,650]

Well, as a teacher of businesspeople (I'm a corporate public relations adviser with over 30 years' experience), I'd say the opposite - companies and individuals, particularly those that make and sell premium-priced entertainment products, shouldn't be operating so close to the line that there's any room for misinterpretation.  They shouldn't have their tongues anywhere near their cheeks.  It's possible, even common, for customers to be confused, dissatisfied, even at times hostile. But absent flagrant abuse - which I don't see here on Julia's part - and maybe even sometimes in the face of it - it's a business best practice to cool down the situation rather than heat it up, and to de-escalate, rather than scale up the level of conflict.

Goran's posts have included good information, though maybe a bit buried in lengthy responses.  I'd respectfully suggest that Cameron's was a bit off target, both for employing sarcasm, which can easily misfire, and for being off-point.  In spite of how Julia framed it, it seems to me that her issue is not really about choice, more fundamentally it's about her sense that similarly sophisticated FS add-ons have ease-of-use features.  So if in response you point to default aircraft and say, in effect, "Ha! THEY don't give you the option of using sophisticated features so there's no choice there, is there?", that really doesn't address what's under discussion.

The problem with kinetic responses like these is not so much the impact on the customer you're talking to, but rather the impact on customers who don't participate - they just read and form their impressions and perhaps decide to slip their wallets back into their pockets.

Here's a way Julia's question could have been addressed: "We understand your desire for a 'ready-to-fly' feature.  And we recognize that such a feature is common in premium add-ons, including from developers you mentioned such as PMDG, Leonardo and A2A (A2A's aircraft include an autostart button and a button that turns off damage, effectively disabling many of the Accu-Sim features).  Unfortunately, because of the specific ways the TBM was programmed, this isn't a feature that we can easily realize.  The decision not to include it is the kind of decision about trade-offs that developers commonly are forced to make.  We felt, and continue to feel, that because the TBM's startup routine isn't overly long or complicated, the absence of such a feature wouldn't represent an undue hardship.  We understand you feel differently, and we're sorry that you're not satisfied.  We hope that you'll understand the factors that went into our decision and we hope that you'll continue to be our customer in future."

Or something along those lines.

I'd submit that that - or a response that's similar in tone - might have resulted in considerably less breakage.

[dbw1 445]

This is a really high end technical creation that requires you to get in the books or post questions in the forum. It's a simple as that. The G1000 cockpit is the most accurate I have seen in any current sim.....it is just like the real thing. I've got time on the G1000 in the real world for the last couple years till I retired after flying for 40 years.The systems to operate on the whole are not that complicated if you approach them individually. The G1000 is the one thing that to use it to the fullest you have to get into the books, post questions and simply fly it. I like the fact that you can go through the checklist on the center display and it will guide you though just about everything. 

It's not a simple aircraft nor was it intended to be in this creation by Goran and team. I think his responses were fair and on the money.

[fireone 7]

Alan_A

I prefer directness over apologies , and brevity over circumlocution.

Here is my sample reply:-

The  Hotstart TBM, from its inception,  is an aircraft designed for realism.

So a  "ready to fly feature" falls outside this brief.

It intentionally avoids arcade/ gaming /shortcut features.

 

However ,there are remedies.

Videos , active forums ,tutorials and incomparable support from the developers will get  you airborne in no time at all .

 

 

 

[Alan_A 1,650]

4 hours ago, fireone said:

I prefer directness over apologies , and brevity over circumlocution.

Fair enough - but your version leaves the path open for a counterargument:

-- PMDG, Leonardo and A2A offer what you call "arcade/gaming/shortcut features."

-- Are their products not "from [their] inception designed for realism"?

-- Complexity is not the same thing as sophistication.  Apple's interface designers understand this.

My version was designed to address those points by anticipating and preempting them.  It took a few more words but I think the tradeoff is worth it.

It's an art, not a science, of course, so your mileage my vary.

Hope you have a good night!