Airlines that no longer exist--interesting

[mwilk 1,106]

30 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

Anyone remember the old Southern Airlines? Flew several trips on their Dc9's and oh those bueatiful Martin 404 Aristocrats. Used to ride those out of Dothan when I was at Ft. Rucker. Then there was Texas International. Took Fam trips on both those when I was with the FAA . Seemed those smaller companies had a much more laid back and cordial atmosphere then the big guys.

To be fair Delta gave me a couple of nice Fam trips as well. They were nice folks but a little more formal.

I'm currently reading Southern Storm about the tragic crash of Southern 242 in New Hope GA.

I flew Southern with my parents back in the late 60's to see my sister in Tuscaloosa Alabama. We left Memphis and made multiple stops, one of which was in Tupelo Mississippi. All in a Martin 404. You could look out of the window and see the rivets vibrating in the top of the wing.

[Stavros 295]

10 hours ago, lennie said:

Forgot to mention National Airlines, flew the NE corridor. Not sure who bought them out.

National and Pan Am merged in the early 1980s, the cost of which severely hampered Pan Am and eventually led to the sale of their Pacific division to United in 1985, and their collapse at the end of the 1980s.

Many of these airlines didn't die so much as get absorbed by others. The exception really is Pan Am who's remains were pretty much divvied up among the 3 legacies that survived to today, with United acquiring their pacific routes and Heathrow slots, Delta acquiring the rest of the European network, and American acquiring much of their south american networks. Look at their modern route maps and you'll see that even today their international networks are defined by the routes they acquired from PA now nearly 40 years ago.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Steven Agre

[John_Cillis 2,406]

5 hours ago, Steven Agre said:

National and Pan Am merged in the early 1980s, the cost of which severely hampered Pan Am and eventually led to the sale of their Pacific division to United in 1985, and their collapse at the end of the 1980s.

Many of these airlines didn't die so much as get absorbed by others. The exception really is Pan Am who's remains were pretty much divvied up among the 3 legacies that survived to today, with United acquiring their pacific routes and Heathrow slots, Delta acquiring the rest of the European network, and American acquiring much of their south american networks. Look at their modern route maps and you'll see that even today their international networks are defined by the routes they acquired from PA now nearly 40 years ago.

I was sad to see the demise of TWA, because I flew them often.  I feel Flight 800 might have been a big culprit although there were other reasons too.  For instance TWA seemed to bear the brunt of ATC delays into JFK whereas other airlines I flew there were rarely delayed, unless due to weather.  I loved TWA's iconic terminal at JFK, having flown into there a couple of times.  I felt it was like a Spaceport to me.  Except for Dulles and Denver, few such terminals excite as much as TWA's did, maybe SFO's International terminal does, I like that one too.  I am also partial to Sky Harbor's Terminal four landside mall which extends the length of the terminal, along with its new people mover system which connects to Phoenix's Light Rail and transit system, making a trip from my apartment to the airport $4.00 vs. the original $40.00 Taxi or Supershuttle ride. 

It was sad to see USAirways absorbed by American (my former employer American probably hates me for that one).  USAirways, which America West absorbed, was the hometown airline of Phoenix although Southwest seems that way which takes up an entire side of terminal four, the south side.  I loved USAirways Pittsburgh hub having flown to Frankfurt from their once, with its airside mall.  It replaced the old, shabby Pittsburgh terminal which I flew from in 1990 on my way to Corning New York.

I was happy to fly Pan Am just once, in 1990, which shared its terminal at JFK with Avensa, its futuristic terminal, my second favorite at JFK.  And flying Pan Am from Caracas was a treat, just because it was a continent to continent flight.

Aircal and PSA I loved because of their liveries.  Aircal was absorbed by American and PSA by USAirways.  PSA was the first airline I ever flew, back in 1966 when I was five.  I remember PSA's "Smileliner", gave their aircraft personalities.  They even flew widebodies for a while.

Saddest of all to see go was Mexicana, since my ex wife worked there and they had such great service.  I loved their 727's, especially when I sat in the quiet front of the aircraft, and their tail liveries.  They flew non stop from Denver to Zacatecas, my wife's hometown where we met, also from LA to Zacatecas, although the flights came in late at an ungodly hour.

American in a way had a demise for me when they ditched their iconic silver livery for their current one, which looks so generic to me.  I also miss United's late 70's livery and loved the British Caledonian livery.

John

[dal330200 216]

Midway Airlines, based in Chicago, was one of the first I flew on as a kid, and continued to do so for years until they went belly-up during one of the infamous fuel-price hikes that knocked out a few airlines.  They tried to reboot with a few Fokker jets with a base in RDU, for reasons that defy logic, but that didn't last long.  Was a nice airline in the 80s-90s.

Edited October 23, 2018 by dal330200

[overspeed3 410]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there was once Air Florida. That's the airline whose plane crashed in the Potomac River in the Winter of 1982 killing 78 souls. They folded in 1984.

 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

34 minutes ago, dal330200 said:

Midway Airlines, based in Chicago, was one of the first I flew on as a kid, and continued to do so for years until they went belly-up during one of the infamous fuel-price hikes that knocked out a few airlines.  They tried to reboot with a few Fokker jets with a base in RDU, for reasons that defy logic, but that didn't last long.  Was a nice airline in the 80s-90s.

Midwest Express--never flew on them but I understand their aircraft were quite roomy.  Flew on a Fokker Jet only once, American from Houston to Detroit where I was called to Southfield to replace a Novell server with a newer one, because my employer's hotel there, Doubletree, had run out of HD space.  Then I was flown back to my project in Houston before returning home to Phoenix.  I was a Novell expert at that time, and Unix expert but Doubletree used either Novell or the IBM System 36 for its property management system.  As I mentioned earlier, Doubletree's culture was modeled after Southwest Airline's, since our HR director came from Southwest.  Doubletree was known for their delicious chocalate chip cookies, monstrous affairs which could serve as dinner, for their guests.  In our corporate HQ on 44th and Van Buren in Phoenix they always baked chocolate chip cookies for the employees by the hundreds all day long.  We also had free soda machines on both floors of the building.

When I was called by the big wigs for a laptop support issues they reminded me to have a chocolate chip cookie or two.   Gained too much weight working their, lol.  Also, whenever the big wigs had a luncheon or board meeting, they always ordered enough food to share with us in IT and also our reservations team.  Doubletree's execs knew food was the fuel of champions.  I imagine Southwest airlines must have had the same perks for their employees back then.  American Airlines also plied us with food, and free overnight casino stays, and frequent breaks and fun staff meetings. 

But since I was on a short term contract I knew I could not stay long, nor did I want to not knowing if they were going to eliminate US Airways Phoenix infrastructure for IT in favor of Dallas.  I remember our Phoenix facility near Sky Harbor (just under one of the approaches) was huge, more than a quarter mile long in Tempe, and they had another building in downtown Tempe where I went to my interview by mistake.  The day of my interview I was driving in from Roanoke VA where I had just completed a two month project with Advanced Automotive, I drove from New Mexico straight to my interview in Tempe before going home on the opposite side of the Phoenix metro area.  When I got home the phone was ringing, I was hired same day of the interview.  My wife said "of course!"  Happened to me on every interview I ever had from 1989 onward.  Not because of talent, just IT resources in Quality Assurance and training, my specialties, were hard to come by, especially with airline and hotel experience.

What do I miss most about USAirways?  Their callsign, Cactus, inherited from America West.  That is why I use Cactus in my Avsim handle.

John

[Paraffin 2,197]

The one I miss the most is Pan Am. Partly for their history in trans-oceanic aviation, but also because I lived in Miami during their heyday, when they were based at MIA.

At one time I worked as a salaried commercial photographer, and Pan Am was one of the major clients for the company I worked for (the other big one was IBM, back when their PC division was in Boca Raton). I did a bunch of photo shoots for Pan Am, including tests of paint schemes at their MIA hangar, and access to the non-public side of MIA operations for annual report shots. Back then, it seemed like they'd be around forever.

[Stavros 295]

I know this forum likes to get nostalgic about the old days of flying, but I think that we forget how far flying has come since the supposed "golden age" of the 1970s.

• You can fly non-stop between more destinations than were even imaginable 20 years ago, let alone 40 or 50 years ago. flights like EWR-SIN, AUS-LHR, or SWF-EDI are just a few of the literal hundreds of point-to-point flights that we can choose from now.
• The price of flying has dropped significantly in the last 10 years, let alone since Pan Am were still flying. People complain that the service standards of airlines have dropped, but the fact is you can fly in a lie-flat business class seat for the price of an economy seat on Pan Am, and receive better service to-boot. Economy service has declined, no doubt, but the price has declined so much further. You can fly from the east coast of the US to Asia and back for less than $800 these days, a ticket which would have cost $3,000 or more only a decade or two ago.
• Flying is safer than it ever has been. In 1970, there were 38 fatal accidents of civil aircraft, by 2013, that number was just 6.

Pan Am was certainly an icon of aviation, but I think we often get too caught up in the nostalgia of the old days to realize just how much more accessible and convenient flying has become.

[n4gix 4,947]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:30 PM, overspeed3 said:

Who remembers People Express and cheap tickets from the early 80's? 

When I was a graduate student and teaching assistant at the University of Florida Gainesville, I flew nearly every Friday from Jax to Newark on People's Express! At only $49 each way, there was no reason not to enjoy spending a weekend in NYC. Dinner at the Waldorf cost more than the round trip though...

[MarkW 1,493]

Canada 3000, Royal Airlines, Roots Airlines.  All Canadian low cost airlines that failed.

[n4gix 4,947]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 4:16 PM, Cactus521 said:

Eddie Rickenbacker's Eastern Airlines was a missed airline though I never flew on it.  He helped pioneer Lockheed's aircraft like the Constellation, what a wonderful aircraft, which I flew on once in the 60's from LA to SFO.

My very first flight was a transcontinental from Miami to San Francisco and return in 1955. Both flights out and back were on Eastern Airline's marvelous behemoths, the Super Constellation! I was only six years old at the time, but my memories of that trip are indelibly etched in my memory.

I clearly remember that I had to wear my little suit and bow-tie, and mom was dressed to the nines in her "Sunday go to meeting best." Back then everyone dressed formally. Food service was real gourmet food plated at seat side from a buffet cart, on real china, silverware, and linen napkins! There was always several choices for the main course.

I was thrilled that we made four stops along the way, as I really enjoyed the takeoffs and landings. I remember also freaking my mom out when I called her attention to the "fires" when #4 and #3 engines were started on our departure from KMIA. She wasn't nearly as nervous on subsequent engine starts, having been reassured by the Stewardess that it was normal and nothing to be concerned about.

My first trans-atlantic flight was on a Pan American 707 when I flew with my parents from NYC to Tehran, Iran in 1961. That too was a very interesting trip, with service nearly as good as my Easter Airlines flights.

[ZKOKQ 984]

Anybody mention Freddy Laker ? DC10-10 US Domestic. First budget airline ?

[John_Cillis 2,406]

5 hours ago, ZKOKQ said:

Anybody mention Freddy Laker ? DC10-10 US Domestic. First budget airline ?

Also Virgin America, short lived.  Remember Laker Airlines, lots of fanfare.  Reminds me of something Virgin did when they began service from SFO to London.  They "kidnapped" a busload of travel agents and bigwigs in wine country and took them on a little tour to a winery to promote their new service, it was a typical Richard Branson stunt and hilarious for those of us who lived in wine country at the time.  Laker had its service to London, for a while it brought lower fares with all the majors across the pond.

John

[dal330200 216]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:45 AM, Cactus521 said:

Midwest Express--never flew on them but I understand their aircraft were quite roomy.  Flew on a Fokker Jet only once, American from Houston to Detroit where I was called to Southfield to replace a Novell server with a newer one, because my employer's hotel there, Doubletree, had run out of HD space.  Then I was flown back to my project in Houston before returning home to Phoenix.  I was a Novell expert at that time, and Unix expert but Doubletree used either Novell or the IBM System 36 for its property management system.  As I mentioned earlier, Doubletree's culture was modeled after Southwest Airline's, since our HR director came from Southwest.  Doubletree was known for their delicious chocalate chip cookies, monstrous affairs which could serve as dinner, for their guests.  In our corporate HQ on 44th and Van Buren in Phoenix they always baked chocolate chip cookies for the employees by the hundreds all day long.  We also had free soda machines on both floors of the building.

When I was called by the big wigs for a laptop support issues they reminded me to have a chocolate chip cookie or two.   Gained too much weight working their, lol.  Also, whenever the big wigs had a luncheon or board meeting, they always ordered enough food to share with us in IT and also our reservations team.  Doubletree's execs knew food was the fuel of champions.  I imagine Southwest airlines must have had the same perks for their employees back then.  American Airlines also plied us with food, and free overnight casino stays, and frequent breaks and fun staff meetings. 

But since I was on a short term contract I knew I could not stay long, nor did I want to not knowing if they were going to eliminate US Airways Phoenix infrastructure for IT in favor of Dallas.  I remember our Phoenix facility near Sky Harbor (just under one of the approaches) was huge, more than a quarter mile long in Tempe, and they had another building in downtown Tempe where I went to my interview by mistake.  The day of my interview I was driving in from Roanoke VA where I had just completed a two month project with Advanced Automotive, I drove from New Mexico straight to my interview in Tempe before going home on the opposite side of the Phoenix metro area.  When I got home the phone was ringing, I was hired same day of the interview.  My wife said "of course!"  Happened to me on every interview I ever had from 1989 onward.  Not because of talent, just IT resources in Quality Assurance and training, my specialties, were hard to come by, especially with airline and hotel experience.

What do I miss most about USAirways?  Their callsign, Cactus, inherited from America West.  That is why I use Cactus in my Avsim handle.

John

I heard a rumor that Midwest Express will be making a comeback in MKE, but that was a few months ago.  Their cookies were famous, much like WN's peanuts.  Speaking of WN, they remain my favorite airline, hands-down.  I left them for a while when I was playing the mileage game with DL, when I was racking up a lot of bonuses on Asia trips.  Of course, they made huge changes to Skymiles a few years ago, and that drove me back to Southwest, and I only fly Asian carriers across the Pacific now.  ANA is my favorite.  Won't give UA or AA my money if I can avoid it, I think they're terrible companies.  Worst long-hauls I've ever experienced were on UA, and AA just left a bad taste in my mouth over the years with their nasty dealings with Southwest, among other things.  Of course, my issues center more on the company-side of things at AA and how they do business as opposed to their actual flights, but as long as I have a choice, I prefer WN and then DL.  Ironically, I didn't much like DL or US back in pre-Internet days as both were taking full advantage of their respective monopolies and gouging pax to death with obnoxiously-high fares.  However, now that they're all pretty much on the same page, I think DL really stands out in terms of service and convenience.  Flew HP a few times as I spent half of my life in AZ, and used to love those short PHX-TUS hops.  I'd take them just for fun as opposed to driving or taking the shuttle, and they were some of my favorite trips. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by dal330200

[John_Cillis 2,406]

37 minutes ago, dal330200 said:

I heard a rumor that Midwest Express will be making a comeback in MKE, but that was a few months ago.  Their cookies were famous, much like WN's peanuts.  Speaking of WN, they remain my favorite airline, hands-down.  I left them for a while when I was playing the mileage game with DL, when I was racking up a lot of bonuses on Asia trips.  Of course, they made huge changes to Skymiles a few years ago, and that drove me back to Southwest, and I only fly Asian carriers across the Pacific now.  ANA is my favorite.  Won't give UA or AA my money if I can avoid it, I think they're terrible companies.  Worst long-hauls I've ever experienced were on UA, and AA just left a bad taste in my mouth over the years with their nasty dealings with Southwest, among other things.  Of course, my issues center more on the company-side of things at AA and how they do business as opposed to their actual flights, but as long as I have a choice, I prefer WN and then DL.  Ironically, I didn't much like DL or US back in pre-Internet days as both were taking full advantage of their respective monopolies and gouging pax to death with obnoxiously-high fares.  However, now that they're all pretty much on the same page, I think DL really stands out in terms of service and convenience.  Flew HP a few times as I spent half of my life in AZ, and used to love those short PHX-TUS hops.  I'd take them just for fun as opposed to driving or taking the shuttle, and they were some of my favorite trips. 

 

 

I always enjoyed United and AA, both airlines had good service but granted I flew them before the service cutbacks the airlines started to do.  I loved TWA because it epitomized transatlantic service with its beautiful space age terminal and its 747 fleet and domestic L1011 fleet, and later 767 fleet.  But it was always hit the hardest of gate delays going into JFK, and on my first experience with them my outbound 747 to Frankfurt had pulled away from the gate while my incoming L1011 came in two hours late due to a two hour gate traffic hold on the ground in SFO.  Since there were 20 of us waiting to transfer, TWA pulled the plane back to the gate, booted the scowling standbys off, and fitted us on wherever they could.  I had to fly in the middle row of seats, but my seatmate from Germany was good company and I practiced my German with him and he took time to teach me some colloquial phrases on the flight.  My luggage did not make the rapid transfer but TWA bussed it from Frankfurt to Baden Baden the next day, so I heard a knock on my door just after I checked in and there it was.  I was so sad to see TWA go, I then switched to American for flying transatlantic, flew transatlantic once on USAirways, and finally last year non stop from Phoenix to London and back on British Airways which again has fine service and sexy sounding flight attendants and articulate male flight attendants too.

Northwest gave me very good service flying to Japan and Guam and I was sad to see them go, they epitomized transpacific flights and flights to Oceania, like Guam.  I flew them to Guam for free, I was flown to interview for my final interview in Guam by a prospective employer, Pacific Island Club, but I had to turn it down as the high housing costs there would have created a quality of life issue.  I wanted to live on property but since I would have been there to run it, they felt that created conflict of interest with the employees I would supervise, who did live on property.  They were understanding of my decision not to join them and said "hey, you got a free trip to see us in Guam" in a good natured way.  My second to last interview for them was with the director of HR at Genentech, the medical giant, who did an evaluation of me as a favor for the club, he was the one who cleared my free trip to Guam, wonderful guy.  My fondest memory of that trip was my swimming in Guam's warm Pacific lagoon like Tom Hanks in Castaway, where dozens of small yellow fish swam around my body gently kissing it, as if they were adopting me as one of them.  It was the most beautiful, heavenly, underwater flight I had ever taken with my snorkel providing me air and my swim goggles providing me such a great view of the coral ten feet below and the fish.  I had swim fins on, I swam against the current until I tired then rode the current about 100 yards back in to shore, swimming sideways as I was taught to swim in stiff currents.  I was doing a good four knots over the bottom on the swim back, and felt like I was flying!

John