barramundilure

Correct Go Around Procedure

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Hi Everyone

Can someone advise what the correct procedure is to perform a go around in the B737?  If you can advise that would be awesome?

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Nose up, thrust up, gear up, flaps up - follow missed approach procedure on chart. Simplified, obviously. I'm sure someone more qualified will give you a more detailed explanation.

Edited by andreh

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Ok.

1. Call " Go around, Flap 15".

2. Press TOGA button, physically push the thrust levers forward.

3. TOGA should give 15' pitch up, wings level. Fly to this and after 400ft, the aircraft will transition to heading hold and maintain a speed in pitch, or if LNAV was armed follow the missed approach procedure. Once stable, you can select autopilot.

4. At Acceleration altitude, just select Flap 5 and watch the target speed re-schedule. Let flaps drive the target speed till clean.

5. Once clean you can select VNAV and it will climb to MA.

 

Note at low platforms the aircraft may go to ALT AQQ before you are clean. The Speed window will open and you MUST manually wind speed up to the UP mark.

 

That should do it.

 

Things to plan for are that the Missed Approach is in the FMC ready. This will cause LNAV to show in white on the FMA as an armed mode.

Once stead, you can select and execute a second approach. Make sure speeds are checked and nothing changed on briefing. 

If it's weather related. Look for your alternate and plan accordingly. The trick is not to be at minimum fuel at this point. Time is a luxury to allow you to plan properly. Diversion checklists, notify ground agents, etc. Even planning for a Low Vis autoland if conditions have deteriorated causing the go around.

 

Hope that helps. Remember, in 737 land we never say go-around. it's always "Go Around Flap 15" unless you are OEI. Then it's GO Around Flap 1"..... 

 

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17 hours ago, barramundilure said:

Hi Everyone

Can someone advise what the correct procedure is to perform a go around in the B737?  If you can advise that would be awesome?

I would definitely recommend you add this guy to your YouTube sub. 

 

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I thought I read on here a discussion about a discrepancy or oddity or something with the NGX as it relates to the TOGA.

The result of this discussion resulted in my procedure including the following:

instead of clicking the A/T ARM switch off when switching to "manual" approach, select the SPEED to off (while the A/T switch still on).

This way when you press TO/GA the SPEED kicks back on and the throttles automatically go to the proper setting. Everything else is still manual (pitch up and all that), but at least the throttles are taken care of.

I find it very challenging to fly the plane manually along the published missed approach with all the settings and flight dynamics continuously changing what with the gear coming up, the flaps coming up and all that. If you're gonna abort its much easier if you do it before you disconnect over to manual... lol. 

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40 minutes ago, Nick Dobda said:

I find it very challenging to fly the plane manually along the published missed approach with all the settings and flight dynamics continuously changing what with the gear coming up, the flaps coming up and all that. If you're gonna abort its much easier if you do it before you disconnect over to manual... lol. 

Can you not re-engage the autopilot in the 737 on a go around? On the 744 as soon as you are above 250ft AGL there's no problem.

I've heard it said that an all engines operating go around is the most commonly screwed-up manoeuvre in real life - hardly ever practiced (most sim time is spent going around with an engine out!) and in most commercial jets with a GA at typical landing weights you're putting a lot of thrust on a very light aeroplane which means things can happen very quickly.

Pre-briefing and rehearsing the manoeuvre is key as always.

Interestingly, I am aware of a few airlines in the UK whose SOP is now to go all the way up to the missed approach altitude in TOGA, so all you do is raise the gear once you have a positive rate and select a roll mode above 400ft AGL. You then sit on your hands and wait for the the missed approach altitude to be captured before selecting VNAV (or FLCH then SPD), speed intervening to a convenient speed, then cleaning up.

The reason is that someone realised you might not make the minimum required climb gradients (particularly with an engine out or other performance limited scenario) if you stop to accelerate halfway through!

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2 hours ago, skelsey said:

Can you not re-engage the autopilot in the 737 on a go around? On the 744 as soon as you are above 250ft AGL there's no problem.

You can but typically it's best to wait until the flaps are up before engaging the autopilot on a go-around.  During a two engine go-around the FMC will automatically move the speed bug up according to your flap setting.  Engaging either autopilot cancels the auto bug up function requiring you to manually set the speed bug.  It's not really a big deal but it goes smoother if you wait until you are at flaps up to engage the autopilot thus letting the FMC do it's thing with the speed bug.

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On 10/28/2018 at 2:09 PM, MarkJHarris said:

unless you are OEI

= One engine inop?

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On 10/28/2018 at 2:09 PM, MarkJHarris said:

Things to plan for are that the Missed Approach is in the FMC ready. This will cause LNAV to show in white on the FMA as an armed mode.

In the NGX I can never arm LNAV on final for a potential GA. Am I doing something wrong or is this an airline-specific option that some airlines don't pick?

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8 hours ago, threegreen said:

In the NGX I can never arm LNAV on final for a potential GA. Am I doing something wrong or is this an airline-specific option that some airlines don't pick?

I think it's an option in real life, probably related to firmware version.  Our fleet had it when I started but I think it was relatively new (Spin would know)... Maybe there's an option for it in the PMDG options menus in the FMC? I don't know. 

I will say this is an area that the NGX doesn't perform well for me.  I consistently see it dropping a selected lateral mode during a go around.  Whether I start out in LNAV at TOGA (off a non precision approach) or select LNAV at 500ft, the lateral mode usually degrades to either HDG SEL or ROL at some point during the acceleration / clean up.  Dunno, maybe it's something buggy on my system. 

Edited by Stearmandriver

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I think there‘s an „LNAV on go around“ option interchangable with wings level...

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ugh... not the dreaded "Speed Off!" Some in our Company do this, and it winds me up no end. 

 

Basically Speed Off, to the best of my knowledge, the selecting off of the Autothrottle on the MCP by pressing the speed button, is an "unintended consequence" of the design of the MCP. There's no official Boeing procedure for it, it's not taught by Boeing and discouraged. It came into being in my company because they didn't really have anything to do with Boeing for their old very second hand fleet of -300s. It's only really since the NGs arrived that it's starting to die out. 

 

I don't like it because it's not consistent. There's nothing in the FCOM, and nothing to say different aircraft software and block points won't behave differently.

I wouldn't use it for that reason. I cannot trust it to do anything other than what is just hearsay from others. 

Yes, selecting autopilot back in does open the speed window. Leaving it till capture or cleaned up is fine. My company used to do dual channel approaches as standard too. Now it's migrated to single channel, and recently we've moved to Captain flown Autolands.

The Tutorial Video is definitely a RyanAir guy. " Match speeds" is the giveaway... I don't know why he didn't arm EXIT on the hold page rather than updating the FMC route later on either? No brainer to me...

Edited by MarkJHarris

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19 minutes ago, MarkJHarris said:

The Tutorial Video is definitely a RyanAir guy. " Match speeds" is the giveaway... I don't know why he didn't arm EXIT on the hold page rather than updating the FMC route later on either? No brainer to me...

In his tutorial, he mentioned that he’d forgotten to arm EXIT, and had to update FMC to get sensible information.  

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... Or you could just wait to reconnect the autopilot until cleaned up and stable, like Joe says.  The 737 is actually a pretty easy plane to fly. What's the rush to get the automation connected, screw with MCP buttons, fight the FMC speed programming etc.? I think Joe's right; easier to just fly the darn thing until you're cleaned up in level change and literally all you have to do is press one CMD button. 

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It is indeed. You'd be surprised how the new generation of kids we get are so hung up on flying the buttons and not the yoke. The Automation is really focused on in both the SIM sessions and line training. They expect the kids will get the hand flying practice in on the line and leave us line Captains to teach them..... Which most don't because they don't hand fly much either having come up through the same system.

Me? I hand fly whenever I can and actively encourage guys and gals to dump the automatics and hand fly also. And I do mean all, flight director, Autothrottle, autobrake and ND too. Feel the plane. If you are hand flying you learn the feel of the trim as speed and config changes, it's perfectly possible to hand fly an approach and just know the speed is right from that feel, but it takes practice.

Anyway....don't get me started. I could rant for pages....

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8 hours ago, MarkJHarris said:

Me? I hand fly whenever I can and actively encourage guys and gals to dump the automatics and hand fly also. And I do mean all, flight director, Autothrottle, autobrake and ND too. Feel the plane. If you are hand flying you learn the feel of the trim as speed and config changes, it's perfectly possible to hand fly an approach and just know the speed is right from that feel, but it takes practice.

So your company is pretty relaxed on hand flying? I've heard a lot about SOPs that tell pilots to leave the A/P on down to a certain altitude on approach or only disconnecting the A/T at something like 100ft AGL. I've seen an Air Canada 787 takeoff from the cockpit and the captain switched on the A/P when the gear was still retracting in perfect weather and I was a bit 'shocked' as I thought that's flying an airplane nowadays?

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Interesting -- the overwhelming view from the 747 guys I know is to get the A/P in at the earliest opportunity to reduce the workload on both sides of the cockpit (though it sounds like the 737's ancient heritage strikes again in this case -- the Jumbo wouldn't do anything other than remain in THR (REF) | TO/GA | TO/GA when the A/P is engaged with the speed bug remaining in a suitable spot).

1 hour ago, threegreen said:

I've seen an Air Canada 787 takeoff from the cockpit and the captain switched on the A/P when the gear was still retracting in perfect weather and I was a bit 'shocked' as I thought that's flying an airplane nowadays?

What I would say is that it is important to remember that it depends heavily on the situation. I don't know where the flight you describe was departing from, but just because the weather is good doesn't mean to say it's necessarily sensible to be hand-flying.

Remember that in a two-man cockpit, whilst you're merrily hand-flying without a care in the world the guy next to you may be working like a one-armed paper hanger picking up all the other tasks which you might otherwise be doing if the autopilot were engaged, on top of his own job, and whilst your attention is focussed on flying the thing how effectively can you cross-check what he's up to (and vice-versa when he is twice as busy?).

Obviously in a quiet traffic environment is one thing... in complex/busy airspace with perhaps an RNAV1 SID with complex routing/lots of closely-spaced level restrictions/sensitive noise terminals if you stray from the defined noise-preferential route and ATC trying to squeeze lots of traffic in, there might be an argument for distributing the workload a bit more evenly so that you can both monitor each other/look for traffic etc more effectively.

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18 hours ago, skelsey said:

each other/look for traffic

This.  All eyes are out of the cockpit as much as possible when VMC below 10000.  One never assumes all traffic will be called out to you by ATC or the fish finder.

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On 10/30/2018 at 10:39 PM, Stearmandriver said:

I think it's an option in real life, probably related to firmware version.  Our fleet had it when I started but I think it was relatively new (Spin would know)...

I *think* it's been that way since U10.7, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure we've had LNAV armed for G/A since I've been flying the 737 - 11 years.

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21 hours ago, skelsey said:

Interesting -- the overwhelming view from the 747 guys I know is to get the A/P in at the earliest opportunity to reduce the workload on both sides of the cockpit (though it sounds like the 737's ancient heritage strikes again in this case -- the Jumbo wouldn't do anything other than remain in THR (REF) | TO/GA | TO/GA when the A/P is engaged with the speed bug remaining in a suitable spot).

What I would say is that it is important to remember that it depends heavily on the situation. I don't know where the flight you describe was departing from, but just because the weather is good doesn't mean to say it's necessarily sensible to be hand-flying.

Remember that in a two-man cockpit, whilst you're merrily hand-flying without a care in the world the guy next to you may be working like a one-armed paper hanger picking up all the other tasks which you might otherwise be doing if the autopilot were engaged, on top of his own job, and whilst your attention is focussed on flying the thing how effectively can you cross-check what he's up to (and vice-versa when he is twice as busy?).

Obviously in a quiet traffic environment is one thing... in complex/busy airspace with perhaps an RNAV1 SID with complex routing/lots of closely-spaced level restrictions/sensitive noise terminals if you stray from the defined noise-preferential route and ATC trying to squeeze lots of traffic in, there might be an argument for distributing the workload a bit more evenly so that you can both monitor each other/look for traffic etc more effectively.

I agree, didn't think of all this. The takeoff was out of runway 5 from YYZ.

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On 11/1/2018 at 8:24 PM, MarkJHarris said:

It is indeed. You'd be surprised how the new generation of kids we get are so hung up on flying the buttons and not the yoke. The Automation is really focused on in both the SIM sessions and line training.

And are we starting to see the results of this in accidents that are occurring.

The traditional route of military/GA where pilots picked up the skills of 'flying' the aircraft for me are quickly disappearing.

Two major airlines here in Australia are starting up there own flying schools. What kind of pilots are they going to train?

 I fear they are going to churn out button pushing magenta hugging individuals.

It worries me when two very experienced pilots pull back on the stick when in a stalled condition, or fly the aircraft short

into the runway on a perfectly clear day.

The following is a good article on such.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Cockpit_Automation_-_Advantages_and_Safety_Challenges

 

Andy Baird

 

 

 

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I guess from my colleagues that I'm a bit odd in that I enjoy hand flying a lot. It really is not common, and flying a visual approach is almost unheard of. It's a bit depressing to be honest.

Once you gee them up, most of the kids actually enjoy poling it about. it improves the day out immensely. Helps them with confidence which a lot are sadly lacking once they are spewed out the far end of the training programme. 

 

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13 minutes ago, MarkJHarris said:

I guess from my colleagues that I'm a bit odd in that I enjoy hand flying a lot. It really is not common, and flying a visual approach is almost unheard of. It's a bit depressing to be honest.

Once you gee them up, most of the kids actually enjoy poling it about. it improves the day out immensely. Helps them with confidence which a lot are sadly lacking once they are spewed out the far end of the training programme. 

 

When I was active, we'd make round trips between Corpus Christi and Dallas every couple of days and it was often boring.... climb to altitude and track the straight line, then descend and land.  I loved the days when we had cumulus and climb out was a gentle weaving to and fro maintaining VMC and I got a chance to fly, and occasionally it would be advantageous to get below the CB bases at 2200 and fly between the rain columns.  Real flying... it's the most fun you can have with your pants on.

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Yeah, the handfly-vs-automation issue is really as much a cultural issue from airline to airline, as it is workload dependent.  The reality is, on a normal departure, there's really no workload-based reason to get the autopilot on immediately.  This is actually more true on advanced departure procedures out of airports like YYZ than it used to be; once LNAV and VNAV are engaged, there's not much else for the PM to do.  Back when all departures out of busy airspace were vectors, he'd be busy spinning altitudes and headings, selecting vertical modes etc. (and even that was usually not task saturation), but with RNAV SIDs that's not as common anymore. 

Certainly there are times to lean more heavily on the automation, and understanding when and how to do that is an important skill... But so is handflying.  The reality is, the 737 is a pretty easy plane to fly.  I'm not sure how much you can consider driving any modern airliner to be "flying", really. 

But like I say, it's kind of a cultural issue in any given company.  In the states, we run the gamut.  I remember when a friend was hired into the airbus at another airline, and clicked off the autopilot for a visual approach while telling the captain "I'll hand fly this one."  The captain immediately flipped the autopilot back on and said something to the effect of, "no you won't, because I'd have to watch you like a hawk and that's not how we do things here."

Conversely at my company on the 73, most of us handfly a good bit.  I'll usually handfly at least into the teens, and click the autopilot/autothrottles off somewhere on base.  Not always, of course... But on an average day, it's just the normal way of doing things here.  So, different strokes.  The important thing is just to be proficient at both handflying and automation use, so it's not a big deal to do either. 

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