Gizmo05

How to get the correct Departure Runway ?

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17 minutes ago, SteveW said:

What I've been stressing 'in this thread' is how to use the current sim to your advantage - as the code stands now.  I full well know what's needed or what can improve it and what's wrong with it.

We just cross-posted again.  Yes, I know you know what needs to be done.  I'm not mad at anybody, nor criticizing anyone in particular.  And for what it's worth, my solution to the ATC/runway/AI problem is to just turn off collisions in the sim and fly using runways, departures, and approaches that make sense in the real world while using the real world weather my other expensive addons injected into the "default" sim.  But that usually really p*sses off the ATC controller too.  😂 

Peace

Edited by FalconAF

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If you're using AS check the weather briefing. That will usually give your departing runway and arriving as well. Of course the weather could change but if I'm planning the briefing is a good start.

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I don't use the in-game ATC at all.  I do have Active Sky for P3Dv4, and I do tune into ATIS and get the wind direction info and land accordingly.  I also have AI traffic set very low...I, like others, wish LM would get around to fixing some of the basics with the sim.  Some of it is low hanging fruit.

Mark

 

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14 hours ago, Lenny777 said:

If you're using AS check the weather briefing. That will usually give your departing runway and arriving as well. Of course the weather could change but if I'm planning the briefing is a good start.

I do use AS.  I do see what AS says the "current runways" in use are.  In many cases, AS reports the real world runway configuration that will be used.  In calm winds conditions at KLAS it will say the 19's or 26's.  Then I start P3D and it is using the 1's and 8's and so will all the AI.  And it does that at most large multiple runway airports if a crosswind runway AFCAD is being used. It will do the same thing at KLAX with PARALLEL runways.  Starting late night, real world KLAX uses the 6's and 7's for landing, and the 24's and 25's for takeoffs, and continues doing that until early morning.  Noise abatement rules.  And during the daytime it would take darn near 15 kt tailwinds before KLAX will use the 6's or 7's at all.  But the sim will select the 6's and 7's in calm winds all day long.  Totally unrealistic.  What good is my real world Active Sky addon if it injects real world calm winds and the sim's default ATC  selects bogus runway configurations?  It has been a problem for over 20 years in our flight sims.  I honestly can't believe that a current technology $200 flight simulator, marketed as a "professional training simulation of real world flying", still has this happening in it, and can't re-program a user interface that would allow the user to select the runways that would correspond to a real world configuration. "Eye Candy" improvements seem to be more important that realism.  And that is a shame for something marketed as "professional".

I know how to use weather briefings to plan flight departures and arrivals.  Did it for 40 years real world.  It's the default simulator that makes it impossible to do realistically.  Heck, my weather addons are more accurate in predicting the real runways than the default ATC.  That's the issue.  The addons are useless if the default sim still makes unrealistic choices and the end user has no control over them other than to turn off OTHER parts of the simulation (like crash detection) so the user can fly the flight in a  realistic manner.   

EDIT:  Just to be sure, I'm NOT saying that the default ATC can't be allowed to select the runways to begin with.  Sometimes they DO select the correct runways to coincide with the real world operations (but it usually depends on the airports in question).  What I am saying is that if the default ATC selects a runway configuration that DOESN'T correspond to what I KNOW would be the real world configuration, just give ME the opportunity to select the real runways then, and have the sim USE them so I won't be flying head-on into a string of AI aircraft coming in the opposite direction when I land on the realistic runways.  I honestly don't mind if someone wants to land at KLAX on runway 7R at high noon with 3 kt winds from the east.  If that's all they want from their $200 simulator, it's fine by me.  But please don't make me do it when I know better.

Edited by FalconAF
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3 hours ago, FalconAF said:

I do use AS.  I do see what AS says the "current runways" in use are.  In many cases, AS reports the real world runway configuration that will be used.  In calm winds conditions at KLAS it will say the 19's or 26's.  Then I start P3D and it is using the 1's and 8's and so will all the AI.  And it does that at most large multiple runway airports if a crosswind runway AFCAD is being used. It will do the same thing at KLAX with PARALLEL runways.  Starting late night, real world KLAX uses the 6's and 7's for landing, and the 24's and 25's for takeoffs, and continues doing that until early morning.  Noise abatement rules.  And during the daytime it would take darn near 15 kt tailwinds before KLAX will use the 6's or 7's at all.  But the sim will select the 6's and 7's in calm winds all day long.  Totally unrealistic.  What good is my real world Active Sky addon if it injects real world calm winds and the sim's default ATC  selects bogus runway configurations?  It has been a problem for over 20 years in our flight sims.  I honestly can't believe that a current technology $200 flight simulator, marketed as a "professional training simulation of real world flying", still has this happening in it, and can't re-program a user interface that would allow the user to select the runways that would correspond to a real world configuration. "Eye Candy" improvements seem to be more important that realism.  And that is a shame for something marketed as "professional".

I know how to use weather briefings to plan flight departures and arrivals.  Did it for 40 years real world.  It's the default simulator that makes it impossible to do realistically.  Heck, my weather addons are more accurate in predicting the real runways than the default ATC.  That's the issue.  The addons are useless if the default sim still makes unrealistic choices and the end user has no control over them other than to turn off OTHER parts of the simulation (like crash detection) so the user can fly the flight in a  realistic manner.   

EDIT:  Just to be sure, I'm NOT saying that the default ATC can't be allowed to select the runways to begin with.  Sometimes they DO select the correct runways to coincide with the real world operations (but it usually depends on the airports in question).  What I am saying is that if the default ATC selects a runway configuration that DOESN'T correspond to what I KNOW would be the real world configuration, just give ME the opportunity to select the real runways then, and have the sim USE them so I won't be flying head-on into a string of AI aircraft coming in the opposite direction when I land on the realistic runways.  I honestly don't mind if someone wants to land at KLAX on runway 7R at high noon with 3 kt winds from the east.  If that's all they want from their $200 simulator, it's fine by me.  But please don't make me do it when I know better.

What are you going to do about the weather? Going to change that too to get the runway you want? 

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On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:39 PM, simbol said:

Correct, that is the source of the issue and therefore we need to work very hard trying to improve this area.

I'm by no means a programmer or whatever it needs to make it happen.

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:50 PM, FalconAF said:

What...from a programming perspective...would be so hard to do to make that happen? 

but I have "observed" how "many" have tweaked runway lengths & deleted / added ILS's to effectively direct AI to "preferred" runways (given the sim's alogorithm score is not only heavily weighted in those 2 inputs), the missing "feature" seems to be is that it can't be done in-flight to vary ... whether for example to toggle an ILS if it is day or night and xwind/twind limits aren't exceeded on the resulting active (much like AFLT does with ALS in low visibility daylight).

to have opposite runway use at KLAX maybe be that little bit more complex though .... must try landings on the 6's, departure on the 25's ?

whichever, I add my support to the lobby for a "feature" many here hope to see some day.

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13 hours ago, vadriver said:

to have opposite runway use at KLAX maybe be that little bit more complex though .... must try landings on the 6's, departure on the 25's ?

That can already be done with the AFCAD file.  Users have been able to label one end of a runway for takeoffs only, or one end for landings only, etc (there are some limitations though).  But even though I can have more than just one AFCAD file for different runway configurations for an airport (like Copenhagen mentioned previously in this thread), I can only use ONE of them at a time in the sim.  And I have to CLOSE the sim to change them if I want to change the "available" runways.  That is useless to me if I "checked the weather" for my arrival airport 2 (or more) hours in advance, only to discover the weather changed at the arrival airport while I was enroute.  The loaded AFCAD file won't be using the "correct" runways for the CURRENT weather on arrival then.  And there isn't a darn thing I can do about it to change the AFCAD while the sim is running. 

It's NOT just a "the winds are from a certain direction in the sim" problem.  It's the inability of the USER to do what the DEFAULT ATC is INCAPABLE of doing.  So the default ATC "doesn't know" that after 10 PM local time, KLAX will start using a "landing east and departing west" runway configuration for noise abatement? Then give the USER the ability to select those runways FOR the default ATC. I should be able to "tell the sim" to "Use 25R for takeoffs and 6L for landings", and the sim's ATC should act accordingly.  That solves the problem for late night flying using someplace like KLAX with parallel runways.  And for someplace like KLAS with "crossing" runways, I should be able...in the sim WHILE it is running...tell the ATC to "Use runways 19L and 26R for takeoffs, and runways 19R nd 26L for landings"...like in the real world...REGARDLESS if the winds are only 3kts from the east.

Before anybody says, "Well, that would be too much work for the user to do for every airport while flying!", THAT argument goes right down the drain when you look at addons that are "Best Sellers" like GSX2, where the user can select (or "change") what the jetways look like for almost every INDIVIDUAL airport in the sim.  Or leave them whatever way the sim decides.  It's the same principle for "realistic runway use".  Many of us have "taken the time" over years of sim use to install "more realistic crosswind runways AFCADs" in our sims.  But it's still a band-aid fix, because of the way the default ATC selects runways.

I don't mind if someone wants to use "UNrealistic runway configurations" chosen by the default ATC in their sim.  That's their choice...go for it.  But I'm using $100+ airplane addons...and $100+ worth of real world weather addons...and $100+ worth of ATC and AI addons....all in a $200 "default" simulation...and ALL of those addons (and me) are at the mercy of the default sim's ATC selecting idiotic runway configurations for "real world" simulation.

At LEAST give me the chance to select "real world runway configurations" if I know what they will be, and if I want to do it.  Give me the opportunity to do the default ATC's runway configuration job for them if they can't do it correctly themselves. If anybody else wants to just use whatever the default ATC selects, I'm fine with that too.  But let me override the default ATC's selection when it would be "more realistic" at the time.  

       

Edited by FalconAF
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If you are using real world weather then the correct reference at any given time for 'the correct runway' as per real world procedures will be a quick reference to flight radar 24.  Whatever the runway is in use here at any given time  is what you should be using - if in any doubt.

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6 hours ago, ErichB said:

Whatever the runway is in use here at any given time  is what you should be using

the limit in that is "many" prefer historic weather ... and how with current weather can one match AI to that and / or hear an appropriate atis, both in the air & on the ground.

that's the apparent shortfall to me.

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8 hours ago, FalconAF said:

Users have been able to label one end of a runway for takeoffs only, or one end for landings only, etc (there are some limitations though). 

indeed, but the limitations are that the winds need to be <6kts.

for mine, you still need the opposite runways available for stronger winds but control AI by shutting down "the high scoring" of ILS's in runway assignment in those light winds but that runway assignment is based on winds when stronger (?).

the more one thinks of the permutations, the more we maybe should reconsider the allowable winds on runways ..... perhaps a 10kt tailwind / 30kt crosswind is more appropriate in the scoring alogorithm (just guessing for now) at different times of the day.

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