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Hi all,

I want to share with you some findings and concerns that I have recently. I have a 7700K and my primary goal was to have it run at around 5.00 Ghz, or at maximum frequency/stability. I have delidded my CPU and have seen the temperature benefits. My setup has run like that for around 1.5 years. Last week, I ordered Aerosoft's EDDK and experienced an amazing stuttering situtation when fully loaded at the gate. At first I thought the developer was to blame for not optimizing the scenery, but soon after I realized that a BIOS settings modification solved my problems and the performance was smooth and nice. What was it? I reset my BIOS settings to stock, enabling  only the RAM XMP profile. Since then I have been flying at stock BIOS settings and I haven't seen any slow performance or anything that I would think of. In fact it seems more stable and the scenery is loading faster and is crisper most of the times. Of course add-ons like the FSL Airbus or heavy city scenarios bring my FPS to low 20s which is annoying. I tried to increase my RAM speed to 4000Mhz and 1.36v but I saw no difference in performance.

Today, I decided to run some tests using XTU which you can see below. The first test is while the CPU is set to 5.00 Ghz while the second at stock settings (Turbo frequency at 4.50 Ghz). What was also worth telling is that I also  tried to set my RAM speed again to 4000 Mhz at 1.36v and the CPU at 5.00 GHz and then the XTU results was less! It was around 580 points. 

So, deciding between overclocking my CPU or not,  the gain of 55 points for a temperature increase of 20C, I feel that it is not worth it. For some reason the simulation seems to run more smooth for me at 4.5 Ghz.

What is your expertise on that? Could it be a sign of my CPU aging or does this makes sense to you?

kNFfG4x.png

0ffLTmh.png

Edited by Daedalus

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I also run a delidded 7700k, currently at 5MHz, but with a manual vcore, not 'Adaptive', and all is well.  My XMP profile is also set, to 3200MHz.  If I attempt to overclock my RAM beyond 3200, I get similar results to what you've posted, and the system becomes a little unstable.

I also experience this when running Adaptive mode.

What is the standard XMP profile of your RAM?

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Hi Phil, thank you for the reply. I also run a manual vcore, I found at 1.37V I have guaranteed stability. my XMP is set at 3600Mhz.

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38 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Hi Phil, thank you for the reply. I also run a manual vcore, I found at 1.37V I have guaranteed stability. my XMP is set at 3600Mhz.

Your screenshots appear to show your system in 'Adaptive Mode'.

I also suspect, that if your XMP profile is 3600MHz, then overclocking it to 4000MHz is probably causing instability. Not sure I've ever seen RAM designed to overloack to 3600, go up to 4000, whatever the voltage.

You could probably up your CPU cache ratio a little more.

Edited by Dougal

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Well, you've made the point(s) that some of us have been trying to get across for several months now:

-not in any order of importance-

1) hi speed memory with sloppy timings means sloppy performance

2) 77000k doesn't do hi speed memory

3) memory integrity/speed does affect performance

 

I'd delid and tune it for 4.9 to 5.0 ....A 10% performance boost can mean all the difference in the sim world, especially at places where your're cpu starved. Sometimes you only need that 2 fps for complete immersion.

Edited by FunknNasty
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First, there's nothing wrong with adaptive mode.

And yep, if your XMP profile is 3600 MHz and you are pushing beyond that it's possibly your issue.

Don't forget, the XMP profile is an overclock. The JADEC frequency is the platforms rated frequency, and the higher XMP frequency is what the RAM manufacturer has tested the RAM to overclock to. So if you overclock your RAM further than that then yes, you can get instability. 

 

Edited by martin-w

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12 minutes ago, martin-w said:

First, there's nothing wrong with adaptive mode.

 

 

Agreed Martin, but he seemed to think he was in manual mode;-)

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A superbly enlightening thread this is.

Martin, was it the Asus Maximus XII Hero you recommended for the i9-8086k? There is a test review in the current Custom PC mag.

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That would be XI you mean, but no, I don't recall recommending any board. 

Edited by martin-w

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Thanks again very much for your inputs guys. @Dougal I know it says Adaptive on the XTU, however on the BIOS this is how I set the Vcore. It seems manual to me, correct me if wrong:

anyDaQR.jpg

@martin-w agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

@FunknNasty, agreed. That 10% is what can bring me over 30fps which as you say makes all the difference (I fly at 30Hz). However I'm thinking if reaching 80C creates underlying problems on the performance that I won't have at stock settings.

Edited by Daedalus

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32 minutes ago, martin-w said:

That would be XI you mean, but no, I don't recall recommending any board. 

Ooops, my typos, yes XI.

When the i9-8086k came out I vaguely recall me asking about a suitable MoBo for that CPU, and I think,AFAIR, you had commented/recommended/suggested a Hero MoBo?

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43 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Thanks again very much for your inputs guys. @Dougal I know it says Adaptive on the XTU, however on the BIOS this is how I set the Vcore. It seems manual to me, correct me if wrong:

anyDaQR.jpg

@martin-w agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

@FunknNasty, agreed. That 10% is what can bring me over 30fps which as you say makes all the difference (I fly at 30Hz). However I'm thinking if reaching 80C creates underlying problems on the performance that I won't have at stock settings.

My bad ....you have delided, as in a past tense.  If that 80c is just a spike temp but your average temps are otherwise in the low 70's to mid 70's I think you'd be fine. Based on the info you have supplied so far, it seems to me that with some bios tuning you might find some room to shave a few degrees Celsius and get that overclock performance where you want it..

Edited by FunknNasty

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Thank you very much @FunknNasty : ) Yes, this is what I try to achieve. Right now I added a 2 factor AVX and reduced the Vcore at 1.35v trying to see how stable it will be. I think I will stick to the XMP profile for the RAM and try not to change it.

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Quote

agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

 

XMP is tested as stable by the manufacturer, tweaking above that by 100 or 200 MHz won't make a huge difference, doubt you'd even notice. And given that you have already experienced instability, and I presume no instability at XMP setting, I would leave  it. Achieving stability at higher RAM frequency is also about tweaking timings. Personally, I wouldn't bother.

Even the XMP setting can be unstable sometimes too, especially at high CPU overclocks. The memory controllers capabilities have to be considered too. Sometimes you can overclock RAM highly and CPU less, or CPU highly and RAM less. Not always both. 

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24 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Ooops, my typos, yes XI.

When the i9-8086k came out I vaguely recall me asking about a suitable MoBo for that CPU, and I think,AFAIR, you had commented/recommended/suggested a Hero MoBo?

 

 

The Maximus  XI Hero wasn't available when the 8086K was released. (It's not an i9) I don't recall mentioning a Maximus X Hero but cant rule it out. 

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16 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Thank you very much @FunknNasty : ) Yes, this is what I try to achieve. Right now I added a 2 factor AVX and reduced the Vcore at 1.35v trying to see how stable it will be. I think I will stick to the XMP profile for the RAM and try not to change it.

There is some performance to be found at the northbridge chipset  ...you have what looks like 4200 ....I'd try to work that into your final build at around 4500.

 

Edited by FunknNasty

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oh, and echoing what Martin is saying about XMP  ....don't be afraid to drop your mems down to something like 3200 c14 to get a stable 5.0. I'd take a 5.0 setup with 3200 c14 over a 4.7 with 3600 cXXXX any day of the week.

16 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Thank you very much @FunknNasty : ) Yes, this is what I try to achieve. Right now I added a 2 factor AVX and reduced the Vcore at 1.35v trying to see how stable it will be. I think I will stick to the XMP profile for the RAM and try not to change it.

 

Edited by FunknNasty

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16 minutes ago, FunknNasty said:

oh, and echoing what Martin is saying about XMP  ....don't be afraid to drop your mems down to something like 3200 c14 to get a stable 5.0. I'd take a 5.0 setup with 3200 c14 over a 4.7 with 3600 cXXXX any day of the week.

 

Oh thanks..That was something I never thought as a possibility. I will certainly try the stability in such case. I'm thinking (and wishing) that maybe instability in my case is not a factor of Vcore only but also high RAM frequency. Thank you very much for this!

Edited by Daedalus

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One other thought the overclock game:

Until this thread 9900K/9700K Overclock performance review I was running my machine at 5000, the cache bus (north bridge) at 4500 and the mems at 4133 c17. Now I'm running 5200/4800 with mems at 3866 c16.  I gave up a little on the mem's, but the sacrifice was more than offset by the additional horse power I get with cpu and north bridge speeds. Oh, and on top of that, my overall system latency (as measured by Aida64) has actually improved.

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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

It's not an i9)

Spot-on, Martin. My goof. It's an i7.but I am pretty certain you mentioned a Hero along the lines, somewhere, and that what caught my eye as I do like Asus MoBos. Have never given me any probs over the years.

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Must have been the Maximus X Hero. I like Asus boards too, in fact I have to go right back to my first bought PC to find anything different.

I did raise an eyebrow recently regarding Asus's decision to cut costs with a 4 phase VRM on the Maximus XI Hero... but even that isn't a big deal for most purchasers of the board. 

I like other features of Asius boards too. I actually like Ai Suite, although i know in the past some have had issues with it. Use it for Fan Xpert. 

The only issue I've had was one Asus board that went bonkers and took out my PSU and surge protector. Now that was very weird... and a long story.

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9 minutes ago, martin-w said:

I did raise an eyebrow recently regarding Asus's decision to cut costs with a 4 phase VRM on the Maximus XI Her

I read that too, but the current Custom PC, give it their Premium Grade marks. Was a tad sceptical when I read that Australian guy giving it the mark-down. As I utterly abhor anything to do with Gigabyte after their below 3rd Class RTB Warranty in Ca., of all places, I thought, no rush getting a MoBo for that i7-8086k. Wait to see the flow first.

Edited by vc10man

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9 minutes ago, martin-w said:

I actually like Ai Suite,

I too use it to o/c my i5-2500k

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I'm now running an 8086K on a Maximus XI Hero.  The only nontrivial issue I had to sort to get this thing running at 5.3GHz (NB at 4.8) was finding the right voltage for my RAM...it was throwing the very occasional (but very unacceptable) memory error in Memtest 86+ at its rated speed and voltage (3600 CAS 15 @ 1.35v).  It took a modest bump in voltage to 1.365v to get it stable at XMP timings.

I'm really liking both the CPU and the Hero motherboard.

Regards

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7 minutes ago, vc10man said:

I read that too, but the current Custom PC, give it their Premium Grade marks. Was a tad sceptical when I read that Australian guy giving it the mark-down. As I utterly abhor anything to do with Gigabyte after their below 3rd Class RTB Warranty in Ca., of all places, I thought, no rush getting a MoBo for that i7-8086k. Wait to see the flow first.

 

It is actually true that it's a 4 phase, and more than likely a cost cutting exercise. Gamers Nexus did a a very good analysis. VRM temp will be higher, but for the average enthusiast who isn't hammering the hell out of his PC 24/7 it's not an issue. Just an eyebrow raiser that a fairly expensive board has a cost cutting measure in place and the other board manufactures haven't in respect of VRM.

Edited by martin-w

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