3 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

 

If manually overclocking it is across all cores, or with MCE on "turbo"  is across all cores. The previous thread was about "per core" overclocking.

MCE is Multi Core Enhancement.

Intel Turbo overclocks one core  to the max turbo frequency (5 GHz for 8086K) but only if that one core  is the only core active. As the other cores become activated, the frequency for those cores drops, until by the time all cores are active you reach the minimum turbo frequency. 

MCE overclocks "all cores" to the max turbo frequency. So in the case of 8086K to 5 GHz. 

Thanks for that, Martin. As usual, a great font of knowledge to learn from. I am bidding my time watching the threads here before I up the game to Stage 2----acquisition of the other components, i.e. MoBo, RAM, GPU, case, etc, etc.

Don't worry, you are not being foolish. The 8086K is a great CPU. Very good choice. 

I haven't watched the video, looks very interesting ... but my comment wasn't directed at any particular manufacturer or model.  The perception that 8 phases means better is not always accurate ... there is also the software side on managing the power phases (EPU) equation.

Cheers, Rob.

4 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

The perception that 8 phases means better is not always accurate ... there is also the software side on managing the power phases (EPU) equation.

To add... all Maximus XI motherboards are rated for 250 Watts, the highest of all manufacturers.  The 9900K might be able to hit a motherboard with something close to that much demand (maybe Rob will tell us when he begins testing his new rig 😮 ), but the point is no matter why ASUS chose the design it did for the Maximus XI boards they can nevertheless take the hit.  If they couldn't ASUS would be looking for a new business to venture into... while fighting a huge class action suit just here in America (notwithstanding what the EU would do to them).

Greg

The general advantage of additional phases is it allows you to smooth out the ripple in the output waveform without as much reliance on more robust/more expensive filtering to accompish the same thing.

What I get out of this (very good and complete analysis) is that this VRM, in its entirety, is not superior to other designs, but neither is it inferior.  It's more agile on transient response, but has to rely more on its (completely adequate) output filtering to compensate for its eight-stage, four-phase output waveform, at the cost of some decrease in efficiency (e.g. more heat).  But the thermal output is not at all bothersome to me...20-26W if you're driving a 9900K at the limits of non-exotic cooling solutions.  That's easily dealt with just by paying a little attention to case airflow.  The VRM components--inductors, power stages etc--are still high-quality, and the VRM is completely capable of feeding an overclocked 9900K in a production environment (e.g. not competitively running very high overclocks for bench scores), which the original article that started all this said it would/could not do without throttling.

If the additional heat is a concern--e.g. if you're gonna try running a 9900K for extensive periods at 1.5+ V--then you may want something like that Maximus Formula with the water jacket on the VRMs to complement the very aggressive cooling system you'll need on the CPU.

My biggest beef is with Asus marketing this deceptively, and once caught out in the open with it they quietly removed any mention of "twin 8-phase" power regulation in their advertising without a single word to the market explaining themselves.  They have really blurred the line between marketing "puffery" and false advertising here.

Regards

 

As for ASUS, looks like the XI Extreme Z390 is now available, same Phases as the Hero and Formula ... interestingly the XI Gene is not the same Phase design (looks like 8+2) and it's a less expensive motherboard ... so not sure the "cost savings" theory works.

So if one desires 8 phases and a single GPU and 2 memory slots with support for 4600 Mhz RAM, perhaps the XI Gene that's the better choice of MB from Asus?  

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: it'll be interesting to see if water cooling (dedicated) the 4 phase VRMs produces better results than 8 phase on basic heat pipe air cooling. 

I hope I do not ruffle a few 'feathers' here with what I am about to say.

For a long time now, and others have shared their personal views with me, I have felt, as a long-term member of this particular Forum that this Forum was going South. Far too many of the 'Oh-look-mama-here's-my-photos-of-how-good-I-am-at-flying-a-sim' posts.

And then just when , IMHO only, any further interests in this Forum for me at least---and correct me if I am wrong, to me a Forum is a place to seek answers/post opinions, etc,etc, in general seek and give help where required---was rapidly waning, bang, this so innovative and informative thread crops up. Absolutely riveting for those of us on the threshold of taking that leap forward as far as our sim and technology is concerned, and I'm speaking as one from the old 66MHz CPU days.

Take a bow, Martin, Bob, Rob! All kudos to you guys, not to forget mentioning  Elaine, who is such an asset to this Forum.

 

43 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I haven't watched the video, looks very interesting ... but my comment wasn't directed at any particular manufacturer or model.  The perception that 8 phases means better is not always accurate ... there is also the software side on managing the power phases (EPU) equation.

Cheers, Rob.

 

I'm aware that 8 phase isnt necessarily always better. I didn't say it was.

You said you disagreed with me. Well my comment re cost cutting exercise... was directed at a particular manufacturer and model. Asus Maximus XI Hero. That was the board we were talking about and I was referring to. 

 

Great thread guys - thanks for the discussion.

I'm currently running my fully-lidded 7700k at 4.7ghz which was the highest stable clock I could get with temps under 80c with air cooling.  Like a lot of you, the biggest variable for me was XMP timing in order to get stable FPS and the tweaking to get north of 4.7ghz for me was not worth the time and unlikely to succeed on air with a lid.  Already planning my next step up though probably not until 2020.

here's a link for VRM info on most of the Z370/390 mobo mfg's

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/lga-1151-mainboard-vrm-liste-1175784.html?fbclid=IwAR29raYr_leDgMZcKRdJqgD7aEieWGRHtKsxT7MW5Kde8aWFr7AhmqIqLpE#z370

 

Hey Martin!

No ZF906 "garbage"  with my mobo!  🙂

To Rob: Westman did say recently the Z370 Apex is still (paraphrasing here) 'better than any of the 4 slot z390 mobo's'. Might he mean that there was indeed another 2 slot z390 board that is superior to all other Asus Z390's?

 

Edited November 12, 20187 yr by FunknNasty

14 hours ago, Gridley said:

Great thread guys - thanks for the discussion.

I'm currently running my fully-lidded 7700k at 4.7ghz which was the highest stable clock I could get with temps under 80c with air cooling.  Like a lot of you, the biggest variable for me was XMP timing in order to get stable FPS and the tweaking to get north of 4.7ghz for me was not worth the time and unlikely to succeed on air with a lid.  Already planning my next step up though probably not until 2020.

I'd be interested to know what mobo and which air cooler you're running? My delidded 7700k will go up to 5.2 on the custom loop, but I also had it at a fairly solid 5GHz on the amazing Noctua air cooler.  I forget the exact model number, but Martin will be able to tell you.

13 minutes ago, Dougal said:

but I also had it at a fairly solid 5GHz on the amazing Noctua air cooler.

That's fantastic to note, Phil. as I am thinking of adding a Noctua Air Cooler too.My current one has run flawlessly for nigh on 5 years.

Off-topic: BTW, hope you are well on the way to a Full Recovery

47 minutes ago, vc10man said:

That's fantastic to note, Phil. as I am thinking of adding a Noctua Air Cooler too.My current one has run flawlessly for nigh on 5 years.

Off-topic: BTW, hope you are well on the way to a Full Recovery

 

Think Dougal had the NH-D15S, or was it the standard D15, cant recall? I have the D15S.

Noctua do have the replacement for the D15 under development, two designs apparently. One is a single tower design the other is twin tower and both cool even better than the D15 we have now. Be a while before it's available though.

Thanks for that update, Martin. I am not quite there as yet, but worth bearing in mind.

21 hours ago, martin-w said:

Well my comment re cost cutting exercise... was directed at a particular manufacturer and model. Asus Maximus XI Hero.

Ok, but why would the Gene 8 phase cost less than the Formula 4 phase ... and cost less a lot less than the Extreme which is 4 phase also.  I'm just not sure the conclusion can be one of "cost cutting" otherwise why price a 8 phase board lower than the 4 phase boards?

But I must admit, I'm not sure where the $600 price tag comes from for the 4 phase Extreme variant ... DIMM.2 for cooling M.2s?  I've never had a heating problem with M.2s, so I'm not really what train ASUS are on in terms of DIMM.2?

Cheers, Rob.