jahn

PMDG 737 on P3D v4.4: AC is gears up upon scenario reset

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Hi everyone,

Right off the bat, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2019

I've recently installed P3D v 4.4 and then the PMDG 737 NG. I am amazed by this simulation!!

However right at the start I've noticed an issue which is somewhat annoying:

I've noticed that whenever I reset the scenario I was in the aircraft would be re-positioned gears up and would crash into the ground, the sim then automatically proceeds to re-load and the same thing happens again...ad infinitum.

The only way to get out of this cycle, is to exit P3D and re-launch it.

I even tried creating a new scenario with the PMDG 737 as the 'vehicle'.

Again when you choose the PMDG as a vehicle the first time after P3D start-up or load a secnario with the PMDG 737 as a vehicle, everything is OK.

Eventually as you are trying things out in the aircraft you reach a point where you'd like to start anew and proceed to reset the scenario.....the aircrafts ends up positioned gears-up and crashes on the spot ( presumably what would happen if the gears could actually be retracted on the ground ).

This happens every time once Reset, Load or Resume are attempted after the first system initialization right after P3D startup and loading of the PMDG 737.

So first time load of PMDG 737  after P3D start-up the gears are down and everything works as advertised ( at least the parts I have been able to explore so far ) BUT after that when you need to reset any scenario containing the 737 PMDG it ends up gears up and crashes into the tarmac.

Regards

Jahn

 

P.S.: I'd like to offer my respects and compliments to the folks at PMDG. I've flown planes for real ( was an FO on a turboprop ) and I have been an engineer in the aerospace industry. I have also flown both the 737-400 and 737-800 full motion sims a few times. Always phantasized owning a full-motion 737 sim. The PMDG comes very close to realizing my pipe-dream. The detail and the realism is breath-taking. Thank you for making this happen!

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You cannot and must not simply reset the scenario when any PMDG aircraft is already loaded. That has the effect of loading the aircraft on top of itself, which is a guaranteed way to cause the sim to become unstable. It’s not only PMDG aircraft that have this problem. Almost any complex add-on that uses custom non-SDK code for its core functionality will cause major issues if you try to reload the same aircraft in-game.

For a similar reason, you should not use  a PMDG aircraft as the default flight.

At the very least, if you want to reload a PMDG aircraft, you should first load a default aircraft as an intermediate step, (such as the FSX Trike or P3D Cub), then load the PMDG model.

But for best results, it is probably best to exit the sim completely, and restart it.

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Hey Jim,

thanks for your tip.

I tried re-loading the PMDG via the intermediate step of loading a default P3D aircraft first, then loading the PMDG 737.

Same result, the aircraft ends up gears up and crashes to the ground.

Seems that after launching P3D, you can only ever load the PMDG once, after that you would be `loading the aircraft on top itself` as you mentioned.

Kind Regards

Jahn Drink  

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1 hour ago, jahn said:

Seems that after launching P3D, you can only ever load the PMDG once, after that you would be `loading the aircraft on top itself` as you mentioned.

Correct. This is explained a little further in the Intro Manual, which is something I'd definitely recommend reading.

<sim location>\PMDG\<aircraft>\Flight Manuals

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All those advices are correct but one additional advice is: in the General Setting - Realism Setting you find at the r/h side "Crashes and Damages put a checkmark at ïgnore crashes and damages and uncheck "Detect crashes and damages.
In this case you avoid a start and restart loop of P3V4.
Succes

Jo va Bra

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Mmm don’t seem to have that problem i can load and reload default planes and PMDG planes left right and centre including 737 and no problems.

Regards.

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6 minutes ago, Ausflight said:

Mmm don’t seem to have that problem i can load and reload default planes and PMDG planes left right and centre including 737 and no problems.

Then you're getting lucky. The sim really doesn't like it, in general.

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2 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Then you're getting lucky. The sim really doesn't like it, in general.

That’s correct normally i start with default plane and then change.If you do change too many times PMDG does give you a warning prompt.

Regards

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1 hour ago, Ausflight said:

That’s correct normally i start with default plane and then change.If you do change too many times PMDG does give you a warning prompt.

Regards

you will almost certainly have issues... maybe not those that are as obvios as the OP's issues but in the background there might be an issue that can easily screw up your flight. From flaps problems, speed issues, flight model issues up to CTDs. I've read everything of that here from people who reloaded flights or set PMDG aircraft as their default flights. When I tried it with the 737 out of couriosity I was absolutely unable to slow her down during decent, even with spoilers and Flaps 10. No chance. Dropping the gear brought her back from 210kts to 140kts within seconds. Just avoid it or - if you encounter problems - change this first.

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43 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

you will almost certainly have issues... maybe not those that are as obvios as the OP's issues but in the background there might be an issue that can easily screw up your flight. From flaps problems, speed issues, flight model issues up to CTDs. I've read everything of that here from people who reloaded flights or set PMDG aircraft as their default flights. When I tried it with the 737 out of couriosity I was absolutely unable to slow her down during decent, even with spoilers and Flaps 10. No chance. Dropping the gear brought her back from 210kts to 140kts within seconds. Just avoid it or - if you encounter problems - change this first.

I don’t make a habit in changing planes and i know eventually it would cause me problems.I was just saying that it never happened to me that’s all and i know if i persist in doing so i eventually would ran out of luck and boom.

Regards

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Hi everyone,

thanks for your replies and contributions.

                                       So you can't reload the plane in any one session of the P3D sim

                                                                                     ...accepted.

Here is a related issue/concern and since I am new to P3D and PMDG I might as well raise it here:

Background & motivation of my concern: To me the PMDG 737 is more of a learning experience ( at least for now ). So I would want to use the sim to try out things and different situations. Obviously one will make mistakes, screw things up and so on....so you would want to start all over again and repeat a certain procedure, operation or maneuver.That would be one use of simulator like the PMDG ( IMHO ).

Use case: Now lets say I'm at a certain altitude and a certain course and I want to try out x, y or z. Now I hope I won't have to take off and fly the airplane into that exact situation/state before being able to try something out....

Question: Can I start P3D, load the PMDG 737, position my aircraft at the desired speed, altitude and heading or place the aircraft in the desired situation or spot and save this as a situation/scenario??

From what I've gathered, if I screw something up in in the scenario I've saved/created I won't be able to reset or reload the same scenario since I would be loading another instance of PMDG 737 on top of the previous one ( in memory ..I presume? ).

HOWEVER is it OK to exit the sim  __after__   saving the situation / scenario, then re-starting P3D and loading the saved situation from a sceanrio???

Summary:  Can I create, then save certain training scenarios/situations with the PMDG 737 and load them up repeatedly ( each time taking care leaving the sim and re-starting it of course )? I.e. recreate the same situation, state and conditions over and voer again for training?

 

Thank You

Jahn Drink

 

 

                                                                    

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, jahn said:

Hi everyone,

thanks for your replies and contributions.

                                       So you can't reload the plane in any one session of the P3D sim

                                                                                     ...accepted.

Here is a related issue/concern and since I am new to P3D and PMDG I might as well raise it here:

Background & motivation of my concern: To me the PMDG 737 is more of a learning experience ( at least for now ). So I would want to use the sim to try out things and different situations. Obviously one will make mistakes, screw things up and so on....so you would want to start all over again and repeat a certain procedure, operation or maneuver.That would be one use of simulator like the PMDG ( IMHO ).

Use case: Now lets say I'm at a certain altitude and a certain course and I want to try out x, y or z. Now I hope I won't have to take off and fly the airplane into that exact situation/state before being able to try something out....

Question: Can I start P3D, load the PMDG 737, position my aircraft at the desired speed, altitude and heading or place the aircraft in the desired situation or spot and save this as a situation/scenario??

From what I've gathered, if I screw something up in in the scenario I've saved/created I won't be able to reset or reload the same scenario since I would be loading another instance of PMDG 737 on top of the previous one ( in memory ..I presume? ).

HOWEVER is it OK to exit the sim  __after__   saving the situation / scenario, then re-starting P3D and loading the saved situation from a sceanrio???

Summary:  Can I create, then save certain training scenarios/situations with the PMDG 737 and load them up repeatedly ( each time taking care leaving the sim and re-starting it of course )? I.e. recreate the same situation, state and conditions over and voer again for training?

 

Thank You

Jahn Drink

 

 

                                                                    

 

 

 

 

From the moment you exit the sim and load the new scenario from the load option when starting P3D yes you can do what you describe

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But keep in mind that the airplane runs through its 20 second initialization. in this time it can't be paused and so it will fly. As a result you shouldn't save the flight on final or shortly before a turn or T/D as you can't do anything but wait until it is done. 

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You can't pause, but you can, however, enter Slew mode ('Y') while the initialization runs and return to normal simulation once the scenario is loaded and the initialization is complete.If you can save with the autopilot disengaged (or turn it off momentarily while in slew), you can avoid the sudden jarring action that results when the automated flight systems take abrupt control of the aircraft on resume; it's best if the simulation can be primed with a few cycles of unautomated flight before reactivating AP.

As for resetting/reloading, I have not found any reliable solution that doesn't involve restarting the simulation. The earlier suggestion about turning off crash detection is a winner. Nothing is more annoying than completing a four-hour flight, only to roll over some errant taxiway "bump" in the scenery and have the entire aircraft collapse to the ground from gear overstress. Even when I think I've gotten away with it, some flight system invariably ends up fux0red. I wish it were otherwise, but this is just the way things roll in this (or any PMDG) bird. I'm sure if it were trivial to address, PMDG would have resolved it many moons ago.

 

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I’m even in the habit of restarting the computer if i want to use it again  caus even if you shut down the sim and restart in the same go it’s still in the memory.I don’t do this always however.

Regards

Edited by Ausflight

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21 hours ago, DAL1850 said:

Even when I think I've gotten away with it, some flight system invariably ends up fux0red. I wish it were otherwise, but this is just the way things roll in this (or any PMDG) bird. I'm sure if it were trivial to address, PMDG would have resolved it many moons ago.

This has nothing to do with PMDG. Other complex airplanes (FSL, Majestic for example) behave the same. And if it was resolved by LM I suppose this would require new addons from scratch. 

The only complex addons you can reload are A2A aircraft. They somehow found a way to manage it and I think that‘s part of the Accusim magic. But even they can only be reloaded in their current state, not switched or changed.

Edited by Ephedrin

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FSiPanel does  pretty good job of letting you fly repeat scenarios. While the 737 is initializing the software lets it 'fly' in a bubble not moving laterally or vertically so you can make all setup changes you want before pressing the brakes which let the plane fly normally again. 

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Hey everyone,

 

thanks for all the helpful feedback! Really helps.

I'll have to try out all the suggestions.

I have tried `disabling` the crash ( I think it's somewhere in the Controls Options )...doesn't work. After initialisation,  the AC starts veering/creeping port-side into the grass next to the runway...and sort of hobbles......to me: a clear sign the simulation is majorly corrupted.

 

All try things out and get back to this thread if any questions.

Question to Russel: What is FSiPanel? by the way...some sort of add-on? or a P3D subsystem?

 

Regards

Jahn Drink

Edited by jahn
forgot last name in signature

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35 minutes ago, jahn said:

Question to Russel: What is FSiPanel? by the way...some sort of add-on? or a P3D subsystem?

Jahn, it's a training add-on that allows you to place your aircraft anywhere in the pattern or at a fix on a STAR to practice repeat approaches or pattern work. If you have a favorite (or hated!) airport you can practice every approach until you nail them all. Don't think I can post to a commercial website but it is easy to find. Support is good too. You pay per aircraft. a 737 license gets you all the variants 600-900. 

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My solution to the issue posed by the OP:

 I use a startup situation that has a default 737 as a saved flight.  When using any complex aircraft and wanting to redo from a saved position, I do not find it at all necessary to restart the simulator.  I just first load back my default scenario and after it fully loads, I then load back my saved situation with the complex aircraft again, keeping it in slew mode until it initializes.  When disengaging the "slew", the engines will be at idle so there is a slight drop in altitude and airspeed as they rapidly power back up.  A little practice and you can easily compensate for that.   You cannot load one complex aircraft on top of another.  This is true, of course, but nothing prevents you from loading an intermediate scenario with a default aircraft in between.  Much quicker and less troublesome than a full shutdown and restart of the simulator.

When I switched to GSX v2 I designed special multiple jetway gates at many major airports and while in a single simulator session,  I needed to test various different large complex aircraft to insure that the jetways would connect.  I simply loaded my default scenario each time in between each switch and never had any problem.  I would do this multiple times during a single session of modifying an airport without any issues.   Imagine if I had to fully shutdown and restart for each model and each new gate!

 

Craig

 

 

Edited by HiFly

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On 12/27/2018 at 8:40 PM, HiFly said:

This is true, of course, but nothing prevents you from loading an intermediate scenario with a default aircraft in between.  Much quicker and less troublesome than a full shutdown and restart of the simulator.

The PMDG addons set variables to simconnect that are not reset when you load a default flight and then a PMDG airplane again. so these variables are still valid. If you don't noitice any issues, good.. But just try and go into abnormal situations where the usage of the systems is actually required. I'm almost sure that you will run into problems.

I've experimented a lot with this load and save things (to understand the Sim) that are commonly adviced in intro manuals (or like here by Kyle). And I never came out with a well working airplane after that. From wrong system behaviour and corrupted flight models up to CTD. 

Edited by Ephedrin

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On 12/28/2018 at 7:46 PM, Ephedrin said:

I've experimented a lot with this load and save things (to understand the Sim) that are commonly adviced in intro manuals (or like here by Kyle). And I never came out with a well working airplane after that. From wrong system behaviour and corrupted flight models up to CTD. 

My situation may be quite different because I am using FSX SP2.  But I had to perform a similar situation as the OP mentioned.  I had inadvertently selected the wrong airline model for an intended flight.   Aware that I could not change to a different NGX model directly, I simply loaded back my default 737 startup situation, then went into my airline menu and selected the correct model.  After moving it to my departure gate and adjusting the panel views, I proceeded with a  complete flight without issue.  As I mentioned I have modified over a 100 AFCADS for GSX2 and I needed to verify the accuracy of the multiple jetway activations and attachment points for the B747, the MD11, and the B767, for each of my modified "heavy" gates.  Switching from one model to the other would have loaded one complex on top of another, but by loading up my default flight inbetween each change, I was able to taxi each aircraft successfully into the parking spot so I could make adjustments as needed..  The task was time consuming enough.  I can't imagine trying to accomplish this by having to restart FSX inbetween each model change!  But again maybe it won't work the same with P3D 4.4.  Another reason why I am content to stay with FSX for the time being.

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