Trubshaw

FSX IFR Flight

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Hello

I plane a flight using the defualt flight planner, tick the IFR box try end routing say VOR to VOR, check the mapped route visually all there.

Plan it on FSC all there..plan it on aFSC all their,

But FSX will not let me fly any route, all it wants to do is give me radar vectors to the landing runway.

is this all FSX will do, it never asked passing or eta at Nav point it is pretty crude RT but I don’t mind, just won’t it to be one step ahead of my planed route, if I want vectors I With ask for them. The plan is filed 

Fly comersual  twins DH 290ft, do I need Need an add on .

Trubshaw

 

 

 

 

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If you fly VOR, you just file your flight plan, get clearance for departure straight out and take off and fly your filed flight plan to destination.  You'll ask for landing at destination and then ground will send you to your parking spot.  If you file an IFR flight, then ATC will fly you all over the place and the flight will be handled by ground, departure, center, approach, landing, and ground.  You may or may not be vectored depending on the weather.  FSX loves to vector you as they want to show you how difficult it is to fly (or make it look like it is difficult to fly).  I suspect it is like this in real life too.  Once you get the AP set up, it is pretty simple to use the heading select button and change the heading as directed by ATC.  It will cause a massive headache though as the stress and tension gets to you as you are vectored to your final approach sometimes in unbelievable and nonsensical directions.  If there is no visibility, it  is even scarier as ATC is directing aircraft all around you and asking you if you see this or that in no visibility and you have to answer even though you are trying to stay on course.  With a lot of practice on the same route, it becomes easier and easier.  Just remember you are not a real professional pilot and in the learning process and it won't be easy.  It will probably be very frustrating in fact.  Then, after a lot of practice and familiarity of gauges and ATC controllers, it will begin to be fun.  Just remember, if you did a lot of this in real life, your passengers would be very upset with your flying skills as they do not want to be vectored all over the place.

I sometimes use ProATC-X for ATC and it works well when flying a heavy from say, Chicago to Wash Dulles.  The problem is that you will always be vectored at destination and I simply disregard ATC and land.  It is a simulator and I can do this....  If it is not like the real thing then I could care less as I landed successfully in heavy weather and my virtual passengers are safe and happy they arrived on time.  I feel better too as my blood pressure is no longer very high and the veins in my forehead and the sweat begin to disappear.

I did a lot of learning by following some tutorials on YouTube such as at the following link - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&biw=2733&bih=1250&tbm=vid&ei=kCszXKC0LO3I_QagvJvgAQ&q=de+havilland+twin+fsx&oq=de+havilland+twin+fsx&gs_l=psy-ab.3...104733.114989.0.119711.16.16.0.0.0.0.71.1012.16.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.12.762...0i7i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1.0.1YZ_A_yezEQ

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Hi Jim.

Thanks your detailed reply, The flying is no problem my country is England,  I can tell you the best ATC in the world are the Dutch the Nertherlands,

I’ve just returned to FSX , on the box is states from 8 upwards, FSX is not a game it’s a very good flight simulator and great learning aid especially the  IFR cockpit and radio navigation .

I’m finding it quite  hard relearning FSX after some 15 years , I know what you mean about just ignoring FSX ATC after take off and in approach mode.

I don’t mind punching ATC payware, but I need one that will acknowledge my flight plan , Is there one which will ask me to call passing or overhead xxxx VOR or NDB that will do, not worried about intersections. if in your plan one has included a STAR clear me for the planed STAR.

I quite like the click on 1 to 10 RT response, But maybe Vox headset and mic is better.

Whats the closes to the above  payware ATC  I should buy.

Alan

 

 

 

 

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On 1/10/2019 at 3:18 PM, Trubshaw said:

I don’t mind punching ATC payware, but I need one that will acknowledge my flight plan

I've been following/reading the ATC discussions for quite a while and I've come to (my) conclusion that no payware or default ATC is an adequate match at the moment.

But don't get me wrong ALL have the pro's and cons, some better at certain things that others ect... but ultimately it's a frustrating mess when it comes to the present crop of payware ATC and I don't think that you will find one that does everything.

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I think ProATC-X provides a lot of realism. Of course, not perfect but definitely better than the default!  Even a "perfect" ATC system for FSX/P3D would have bugs as I have found that what's good for some is not good for others and they have major issues with it.  ATC is just to provide some immersion into a flight.  I would not expect anything more.

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Hi All.

I use Plan G or FS Commander and load a VOR or NDB route into the GPS It shows the route in the GPS , if you click on Flight Plan it show the VOR s and NDB s  of the route, 

Will any of these add ons ,just ask you to report overhead, by a menu number selection, or let you request a climb or descent by a number selection menu.

All I’m getting at the moment in Radar headings from take off, I just igor them and he calls me back and back again,  I’m really not use to ignoring ATC so it’s going against the grain, just recognise the route calls allow me to climb and descend and call establish on localiser will do.

Trubshaw

 

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As far as I know, default ATC and all of the addon ATC programs assume you are operating in a radar environment. As such, position reporting is not done. In a radar environment, ATC knows your position and altitude at all times. Given this, in the simulator, ATC is not going to ask you your position or altitude.

If you follow the radar vectors after takeoff, does ATC ever give a heading and then say "resume own navigation" or some such instruction? If so, that's your clue to begin navigating on your own. You follow their heading instructions and intercept the course/route depicted in your flightplan.

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18 hours ago, Trubshaw said:

Hi All.

All I’m getting at the moment in Radar headings from take off, I just igor them and he calls me back and back again,  I’m really not use to ignoring ATC so it’s going against the grain, just recognise the route calls allow me to climb and descend and call establish on localiser will do.

Trubshaw

I understand what you are saying but I like to think of this way for the default ATC, it doesn't care about procedures, SID's or STARS or altitude restrictions, it's simply there to get you out and in as best it can. Forget it if you're flying VFR or VOR on top of that.

What I would like in a VFR ATC would be let's say I'm flying VFR/VOR at night + bad weather, Press 1 request flight following, Press 2 nearest airports, Select Airport, Request Vectors to Runway. Seems no one can do that. So to compensate for that I use LNM+GTN's.

Now I've decided to get ProAtc but understand that it's IFR. I mean just take off from EGKK via SID LAM2X with default ATC and you will understand compared to ProAtc. Look at youtube "Showing Aivlasoft EFB v2 fully integrated with ProATC EGKK/EGPH" and "Prepar3D | Dash-8 Q400 | Checking out Pro-ATC/x"

The first one shows ProAtc vectoring out with full SID and restrictions and the second vid shows incoming with no Star but being vectored in. You can technically do everything with LNM or Aivlasoft but Pro/Atc would be more immersion.

 

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Hello All

Ref this.

If you follow the radar vectors after takeoff, does ATC ever give a heading and then say "resume own navigation" or some such instruction? If so, that's your clue to begin navigating on your own. You follow their heading instructions and intercept the course/route depicted in your flightplan.

ATC gives you Radar headings, one choice of Altitude change if you are quick enough, then at some point Say resume you own  navigation. This is immediately followed by another Radar headings, it seem impossible to fly you planned route over the Nav aids in your flight plan .

you set of IFR under Radar headings  I ignore ATC  fly route, call landing airport,  conditions are IFR landing denied, you can’t regain your  IFR landing at destination ,so you land anyway, it’not allowed,  so land anyway,

It’s crab

There’s got to be better than this I willing to pay the money 

Trubshaw

This may be of interest I you have an iPad, 

Real World Nav gps with latest maps, Call Air Map pro. Not cheap about £40 the map are £20 each

same map say  1.500,000  second map 1,2500 

you can  pinch right through, Plan route  , Nav pages,

fllight Plan , overlay an instrument, HSI , vor ,Adf ect.

use it in the car, moving plane instead of car.

 I have two in the plane, really Nav, no certified instrument and software.

 In menus boxes to bridge it to FSX , can get all actual  fwebather for free , if you really want to be reall world you can subscribe to the Nav update and  Notam , I use mine with a little jpad  stick , as I can’t hit the screen with my fingers,in tubulantns  so the j stick moves a x bar to my select I the press a buttom

Trubhaw. Read on Apple store

 

Trubshaw

Edited by Trubshaw

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32 minutes ago, Trubshaw said:

Hello All

Ref this.

If you follow the radar vectors after takeoff, does ATC ever give a heading and then say "resume own navigation" or some such instruction? If so, that's your clue to begin navigating on your own. You follow their heading instructions and intercept the course/route depicted in your flightplan.

ATC gives you Radar headings, one choice of Altitude change if you are quick enough, then at some point Say resume you own  navigation. This is immediately followed by another Radar headings, it seem impossible to fly you planned route over the Nav aids in your flight plan .

you set of IFR under Radar headings  I ignore ATC  fly route, call landing airport,  conditions are IFR landing denied, you can’t regain your  IFR landing at destination ,so you land anyway, it’not allowed,  so land anyway,

It’s crab

There’s got to be better than this I willing to pay the money 

Trubshaw

This may be of interest I you have an iPad, 

Real World Nav gps with latest maps, Call Air Map pro. Not cheap about £40 the map are £20 each

same map say  1.500,000  second map 1,2500 

you can  pinch right through, Plan route  , Nav pages,

fllight Plan , overlay an instrument, HSI , vor ,Adf ect.

use it in the car, moving plane instead of car.

 I have two in the plane, really Nav, no certified instrument and software.

 In menus boxes to bridge it to FSX , can get all actual  fwebather for free , if you really want to be reall world you can subscribe to the Nav update and  Notam , I use mine with a little jpad  stick , as I can’t hit the screen with my fingers,in tubulantns  so the j stick moves a x bar to my select I the press a buttom

Trubhaw. Read on Apple store

 

Trubshaw

 

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FS ATC is far from perfect. This also holds true for many of the add-on ATC programs. When given a radar vector and told to resume own navigation, maintain the heading given until you intercept the planned route. Then turn to a heading to follow that planned route. The "resume own navigation" is not an instruction to turn to whatever heading you feel like to intercept your route or to proceed to the next fix - it's a heading to intercept your route. 

Once back on your planned route, if you happen to get off course, you can expect ATC to give you a radar vector/heading to re-intercept your route.

Let's look at a relatively simple flight plan - KPHX to KLAS. Put the following route into the FS flight planner: KPHX DRK BLD KLAS. Use a B737 and an altitude of FL320  select IFR. After inputting the route, save the flight plan, load the flight plan and obtain your IFR clearance from clearanfe delivery.

After departing Phoenix (KPHX), ATC should give a radar vector to the north to intercept the route to Drake VOR (DRK). Fly that radar vector until you intercept the planned route and follow ATC instructions for altitude. Once you intercept the route, turn to follow the route to DRK. From DRK, proceed to Boulder VOR (BLD). Somewhere near BLD, ATC will give you descent instructions and possible radar vectors to set you up for your pending arrival at Las Vegas (KLAS). Follow ATC instructions, intercept the approach course and land.

Use the FS map or a moving map program (LittleNavMap, Plan-G, etc) so you can see the route and monitor your progress.

I am assuming you already know how to navigate VOR to VOR and can intercept your planned route. Try the above route and let us know how it works out.

Edited by Pro Avia

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Hi. Pro Avia.

Only just read you post, Went I get on the Sim next , I will look up you route. 737 not familiar with, So it will be the King Air 350. Hope you route is not hundreds of miles, Will let you know how ATC handles me next time I fly. Trubshaw.

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Default FSX ATC is not total garbage. You can see the amount of work that went into IT. Also not many people seem to know that you don't have to accept the approach and vectors they first give you. You can request any charted approach in the sim, ILS, VOR, NDB etc and even request to follow the plate yourself. 

A tip from me. To stop making your passengers reach for their vomit bags during constant vectoring make sure you dial your max bank angle down to 15 or 20 from 30 default for example. Makes a huge difference! 

Another tip. Make sure you turn text logging OFF as it's more realistic to listen and make notes rather than see all the text on the screen, plus you won't suffer from starting a new flight on a different day and seeing the last flights ATC speech still there... 

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