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Orbx TrueEarth Great Britain South Released for Prepar3D v4

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What makes it so different to TrueEarth Netherlands?

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4 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

I think your sharp humour/sarcasm will not be picked up by many readers here.

 

Where's Ron?!

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6 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

TrueEarth GB South is downloading to my PC as I type these words. It will be interesting to see just how my PC handles this product. With only 2GB VRAM on my GTX 770, I am expecting a struggle. On the positive side, I will be able to dump a handful of legacy products that were never designed to run in P3D v4.

On 2/9/2019 at 4:34 PM, avi8tir said:

With UK2000 EGLL and QW787 I'm getting around 8 FPS at the airport with max FPS around 12.
On departure towards the east, I got 6 FPS over London at about 12000 feet. 
YIKES!!!!
Compared to True Earth NL and Fly Tampa EHAM where I see 15 - 18 FPS. 

5 hours ago, DellyPilot said:

770? Good luck mate, I struggle with a 2080TI and I9-9900K 😂 If I could be bothered I would try to get my money back until its fixed or P3D can handle it.

Someone on the ORBX forums called MatthiasKNU has suggested disabling all scenery files that have *3DM* in their name. There are 30 of these files in the FTX_EU_!GBS_05_SCENERY folder. 

Doing this removes office-style buildings from city centres. While centres can look a bit sparse, POIs, warehouses and residential buildings remain.
I got a 2-3 FPS bump on approach over London (using identical time, weather, AI and graphics settings as per my post below. This could be just enough of a performance boost for some people to use a detailed payware airplane and TE GB.

 

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For anyone struggling, I have after nearly 8 hours worked it out.

Incredibly it seems they only bothered to define 2 levels of Scenery Complexity. Sparse and Extremely Dense and nothing in between! 

@F737NG thanks for the tip that makes perfect sense because ORBX never bothered to create graduated levels of scenery complexity, so removing those types of building is like making your own 'inbetween' setting.

To run with NORMAL (= EXTREMELY DENSE) on even the fastest octa core PC you have to dial every other CPU setting down to 0. That is why people are struggling. 

If you go with SPARSE like I have now then you can put other Auto gen sliders up and still fly around London without stutters. The country side still looks nice.

Really poor from ORBX and not even helpful on their forums, just comments like 'oh you probably need to optimise Windows 10 and stop trying to max out your sliders' aimed at me from the CEO. Unimpressed. I have been doing unpaid beta testing for them. 

Anyway I now can get nice smooth performance at 30FPS but good god what a mission! 

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/167918-te-gb-south-p3d-v4-stutteringslowing-performance-issue/?do=findComment&comment=1477492]

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Well, I have eventually got it downloaded in installed. Now I can understand everyone's concerns!

I have a mid system (6700k + GTX1080), so I did a test before and after installation.

With PMDG 747 and EGLL from A/Soft. From Gatwick to Heathrow. Skyforce and  AS weather.

Before: 15-25 fps with FPS locked at 25. quite smooth quite acceptable.

After: 12-19 with FPS locked at 20. Mixed results. Most buildings quite sharp, quite a few not so sharp. Water excellent!

Biggest let down was roads: most appeared to be covered in grass (or green asphalt, as in Tennis court). Quite a few stutters.

Autogen buildings around London fine. However,in Southampton buildings completely inaccurate.

I will have to experiment with settings as suggested here but a bit disappointing at the moment.

Ian Harrison

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hmmm...... looks like i stay with openlc EU more than enough and no performance issue----

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5 hours ago, DellyPilot said:

For anyone struggling, I have after nearly 8 hours worked it out.

Incredibly it seems they only bothered to define 2 levels of Scenery Complexity. Sparse and Extremely Dense and nothing in between! 

@F737NG thanks for the tip that makes perfect sense because ORBX never bothered to create graduated levels of scenery complexity, so removing those types of building is like making your own 'inbetween' setting.

To run with NORMAL (= EXTREMELY DENSE) on even the fastest octa core PC you have to dial every other CPU setting down to 0. That is why people are struggling. 

If you go with SPARSE like I have now then you can put other Auto gen sliders up and still fly around London without stutters. The country side still looks nice.

Really poor from ORBX and not even helpful on their forums, just comments like 'oh you probably need to optimise Windows 10 and stop trying to max out your sliders' aimed at me from the CEO. Unimpressed. I have been doing unpaid beta testing for them. 

Anyway I now can get nice smooth performance at 30FPS but good god what a mission! 

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/167918-te-gb-south-p3d-v4-stutteringslowing-performance-issue/?do=findComment&comment=1477492]

I tried this and, yes it is much better but there are no terminal buildings at London City!

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5 hours ago, DellyPilot said:

comments like 'oh you probably need to optimise Windows 10 and stop trying to max out your sliders' aimed at me from the CEO. Unimpressed. I have been doing unpaid beta testing for them. 

No surprise at all.

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I was really excited when I first heard of this scenery in the grapevine. Especially when LM had finally sorted out the issue with poor photoscenery loading. However, I have no intention of paying good money to experience the kind of problems many are reporting. It's crazy that we are expected to drop sliders to silly levels to actually get a product to perform anything half decent. 

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13 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

It's crazy that we are expected to drop sliders to silly levels to actually get a product to perform anything half decent. 

That's the essence. In addition, the global accusion of badly optimized Win 10 is inappropriate given most of us can run all other scenery (including ORBX scenery, maybe minus Orlando) trouble-free.

They either will remedy this - or it will fail.

Kind regards, Michael

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Just now, pmb said:

That's the essence. In addition, the global accusion of badly optimized Win 10 is inappropriate given most of us can run all other scenery (including ORBX scenery, maybe minus Orlando) trouble-free.

They either will remedy this - or it will fail.

Kind regards, Michael

Hi Michael, like many others, I have been an ardent supporter of Orbx sceneries for a long time and I have seen how they have developed from a small team of developers to a large concern who have established themselves as being one of the leading providers of sceneries for flight simulation. I really do hope they are not going to end up like a certain retailer who offer sub par support for their sceneries by simply brushing off accusations of poor performance with statements such as, "rebuild your cfg," "drop your slider settings" "have you tried adding (such a) tweak" etc etc...😥 

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Reading the posts it seams to me that TE GB South is "just" an bad port from the XP version.

That would be very sad, because that leads me to the impression that ORBX main goal at the moment is to milk the somehow "payware awakend" XP crowd so maybe profit is more important at the moment than deliver clean products.

Edited by JoeFackel

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41 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

I was really excited when I first heard of this scenery in the grapevine. Especially when LM had finally sorted out the issue with poor photoscenery loading.

These were my thoughts exactly, it’s a shame but deep down I was sort of expecting something like this. They say a good workman shouldn’t blame his tools , but I can’t help feeling that in this case perhaps Orbx would be justified in doing so. I don’t pretend to understand the inner workings of simulation but it would seem that P3D heritage is limiting what is achievable.

On the plus side I have the 3  orbx TEGB volumes in x plane and I have been able to blast low level down Welsh valleys at 420kts in the JF hawk with no blurred textures or stutters , and fly the flyjsim 737-200 at 500 ft VFR up The Thames through central London with smooth FPS. Neither of those things I ever though I’d see achievable in a sim.

I would have liked to have done similar with my P3D aircraft but I think I’ll keep my orbx regions in place for now or perhaps look at the JF scenery demo.

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Orbx has reached the limit for prp3d to handle all their scenery's along time ago and they know it, They have turned to xplane for more Illuminati and know that xplane can handle it, i have 90% of their scenery and now i can only use 40%

 

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In my view, it is the P3D graphic engine that can't handle the photo scenery TOGETHER with massive amount of custom 3d objects and autogens. The TE Great Britain series in XP has no performance issue.

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If I am correct the TE series are made for XP and then ported over to P3Dv4.

If LM would optimize P3D for better fps and more smoothness they would need to rebuilt the engine and there probably would be no compatibility at all with current addons ...

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Saying that P3D cannot handle things but Xplane does is utterly nonsense, you cannot compare how one add-on behave inside XP and P3D like for a like, specially when both products are developed totally differently.

For an instance:

  • XP is always done in PBR, so has ORBX designed TE GB as PBR for P3D? which of course has much better handling of light calculations and therefore better performance?
  • XP has way much less number fo autogen buildings, the number of autogen building for P3D is around 7,000 or more. so both simulators will behave differently with the same scenery and accordingly the settings for scenery complexity for P3D needs to be tested and adjusted if necessary. 
  • Both platforms SDK are totally different, add-on's are developed totally differently, so products are totally different.. cannot be compared.
  • TE Netherlands works just fine, so it pops the question what happened to TE GB?

Just my 2cents..

S.

 

Edited by simbol
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7 minutes ago, GSalden said:

If I am correct the TE series are made for XP and then ported over to P3Dv4.

Correct. 

Both are using the same datasources, same aerial imagery, same landmarks etc. Of course there are limitations in the different sims that mean things are done/look different, but for the most part it's the same scenery

 

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So, what is your viewpoint with respect to the apparent performance problems of TE GB South in P3D, Tony? An i9 9900k @ 5Ghz/2080Ti powered system should be able to run it very well, particularly as TE Netherlands works just fine for a wide range of systems. To be honest, all of the comments in this thread are making me even more interested to see just how well (or badly) it runs on my own Windows 7 64bit PC. On paper, I do not have a chance in hell.....but then I fly with clear skies and no wind, and at 1920x1080 resolution on a single monitor.

Edited by Christopher Low
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16 minutes ago, simbol said:

XP has way much less number fo autogen buildings, the number of autogen building for P3D is around 7,000 or more. so both simulators will behave differently with the same scenery and accordingly the settings for scenery complexity for P3D needs to be tested and adjusted if necessary. 

I'm not sure where you got this figure, but in the X-Plane version there are many more buildings because large row/terraced houses are split into individual buildings as opposed to one large building. As I said above each sim has limitations and the only way to start optimising is to take things away, lower settings or both.

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5 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

So, what is your viewpoint with respect to the apparent performance problems of TE GB South in P3D, Tony? An i9 9900k @ 5Ghz/2080Ti powered system should be able to run it very well, particularly as TE Netherlands works just fine for a wide range of systems

I can tell you that in TE GB South there are more landmarks, more buildings and more trees than there are in the Netherlands, in addition there is more terrain to deal with. On its own I don't think this should make a huge difference but also bear in mind that many people are running lots of addons on top of this, complicated planes, airports, weather addons etc.. 

For me, the red herring in the room is the sim which very few people seem to want to put any blame on. Of course there are ways to optimise (as well as take things away from the scenery), but if the other two sims (AF2 and X-Plane) can handle these types of scenery, then perhaps people should be questioning LM instead of pointing the blame completely at ORBX (who are well aware of the problems being reported)

 

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37 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

So, what is your viewpoint with respect to the apparent performance problems of TE GB South in P3D, Tony? An i9 9900k @ 5Ghz/2080Ti powered system should be able to run it very well, particularly as TE Netherlands works just fine for a wide range of systems. To be honest, all of the comments in this thread are making me even more interested to see just how well (or badly) it runs on my own Windows 7 64bit PC. On paper, I do not have a chance in hell.....but then I fly with clear skies and no wind, and at 1920x1080 resolution on a single monitor.

Like you Christopher, my (still old) pc looks like it'll have a serious problem.  I left my purchase downloading last night and will be holding my breath when I try it tonight 😂

On the plus side, I've never even been tempted to put any scenery slider to the right, apart from texture=7cm, so my expectations aren't high to begin with!

Edited by Paul Golding

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24 minutes ago, tonywob said:

For me, the red herring in the room is the sim which very few people seem to want to put any blame on. Of course there are ways to optimise (as well as take things away from the scenery), but if the other two sims (AF2 and X-Plane) can handle these types of scenery, then perhaps people should be questioning LM instead of pointing the blame completely at ORBX (who are well aware of the problems being reported)

This would be a really bad message I would have difficulty to digest. However, having worked with TE GB South P3D intensely for the last two days, and comparing it to the XP version it might apply.

That's even harder, as for ordinary people it's virtually impossible to approach the LM crew sitting behing a thick firewall only now and then sending out someone to the forum to reply, as they find appropriate.

Kind regards, Michael

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Lod - Low

Texture Resolution - 15 or 30 cm

Scenery Complexity - Sparse

AG distance - Low or Medium

AG density - Normal or Dense

Max Texture Size - 256 or 512

No Shadows

Max Visibility - 20 or 30 mls

No AI Traffic

Fair weather or Clear Skies

FPS locked at 20-25 

This will help you with a higher framerate to start with..

 

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