Admin Announcement: PMDG

[Jim Young 2,356]

PMDG has announced they have set up Official Forums at the PMDG website.  AVSIM policy (created by the late owner) was that AVSIM would host official support forums for any developer for no cost.  Developers could then advertise within their forums and moderate their respective forums until they set up their own forums on another website or on their personal website.  Now that PMDG has announced their move to the PMDG website, AVSIM will now move the forums to the User-to-User Support section of AVSIM and the AVSIM moderators will take over moderation of these forums.  The major change will be that the PMDG Rules for posting on AVSIM will now end and members posting questions in these forums will be subject to the AVSIM rules and policies and the AVSIM Terms of Service.

On behalf of the AVSIM CEO and the Board of Directors, we thank PMDG for allowing AVSIM to host their official forums for over 20 years.  We are sad to see them depart but respect their decision to leave.  Thanks for being a great contributor to AVSIM's success!

 

[charliearon 3,024]

In effect as of now, Boss?

[Brian_A_Neuman 198]

Its in effect.

[Milviz 919]

On 3/1/2019 at 7:19 PM, Jim Young said:

Developers could then advertise within their forums and moderate their respective forums until they set up their own forums on another website or on their personal website. 

This line...  We tried to advertise in "our" forum and were told that we were not allowed to do so.  And, for some reason, we can no longer moderate either...

Which one is it?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Milviz

[Reader 2,021]

Wild guess.

PMDG left and the administrator reduced the privileges of the whole Commercial Member group.

Edited March 5, 2019 by nolonger

[simbol 5,819]

33 minutes ago, nolonger said:

Wild guess.

PMDG left and the administrator reduced the privileges of the whole Commercial Member group.

Not the case, I am still able to moderate and control my forums as I wish.

1 hour ago, Milviz said:

This line...  We tried to advertise in "our" forum and were told that we were not allowed to do so.  And, for some reason, we can no longer moderate either...

Which one is it?

Hi Milviz,

Must be a configuration error, mine is working fine..

Regards,
Simbol

[Reader 2,021]

I wonder, you are not in the same forum group.

Yours is in Commercial Support forums (hosted by Avsim).

Milviz and now PMDG are in the same forum group as each other,

User to user support forums.

The PMDG staff still show as Commercial member but

Quote

All of the PMDG moderators have been dumped from moderator status, thus making it impossible for us to do as we promised. 

Still making wild guesses of course.

Edited March 5, 2019 by nolonger

[simbol 5,819]

Ah I see what you mean, I thought Milviz was still having his official forums here.

In that case I cannot comment, Jim and AVSIM staff can clarify.

S.

[Jim Young 2,356]

2 hours ago, Milviz said:

This line...  We tried to advertise in "our" forum and were told that we were not allowed to do so.  And, for some reason, we can no longer moderate either...

Which one is it?

As explained to your some time ago, you set up your official forums on your own website and abandoned AVSIM.  Therefore you went from Official Forum status to User-to-User meaning, users at AVSIM usually will help someone who posts in the MILVIZ forums.  When you go from Official Support Forums, you also lose your ability to moderate the forums so you were removed as a Moderator but, since, you are a commercial member of the community, you remain as a Commercial Member so our members will see your status in the community.

Not all commercial members at AVSIM have moderator status.  Those are done on a case by case basis and if you have your official support forums here at AVSIM.  Once the forum goes "unofficial", then the Moderator tag is removed.

Tom set up the official forums so that commercial members could have free space on the Internet to set up your official commercial support forum.  He allowed advertising within the commercial members support forum as would be done if the commercial member would have set up his/her own forums.  So, in effect, it is free advertising for the commercial member.  When a commercial member sets up a forum on every flightsim website including their own, it amounts to free advertising for that commercial developer.  Much of AVSIM's revenue to maintain the website comes from advertising from commercial developers so, if you have a forum set up on every website, we will remove your status as having your official support forums here at AVSIM. I fully understand a developer's desire to get as much attention to their products as possible but AVSIM is not going to be giving away free space which amounts to free advertising if a developer sets up his support forums elsewhere. 

For over 20 years, AVSIM provided free advertising to PMDG and provided free space on AVSIM for their forums.  PMDG became very successful, in part, because of Tom's generosity.  AVSIM is one of the largest flight simulation websites in the world and developer's get a lot of visibility from our membership and guests that visit (on some days we get over 1300 guests and members).  As I stated earlier, it is a shame PMDG decided to move their official forums to their own website but we understand their marketing strategy and we wish them continued success.  I believe their "User-to-User" status will provide some "free" advertising for them but they have been long time members of AVSIM, like the developers at HiFi (Active Sky), Radar Contact, MILVIZ, and others as they helped AVSIM succeed too.  We may eventually eliminate the "unofficial" or User-to-User Forums as we have done for so many other developers who once had their official forums at AVSIM.

I recently moved the Carenado Forums from the User-to-User section to the Official Section as Carenado has no official forums but only a trouble-ticket system.  AVSIM has hosted the Carenado Forums for many years and we are proud to have their forums on AVSIM even though one will not receive official support from the developers.

I hope this explains the questions posted above.

 

 

[sloppysmusic 242]

Great post Jim. Thanks for all the info. I think supporting new developers is a noble thing to do in this world of take, take and even more take. Totally understandable once they are fully established and highly commercial that providing free advertising feels kinda exploitative from AVSIM point of view. 

I would hope that such huge archives of previous commercial support such as the old PMDG support area would be usable for perpetuity rather than removed for good. Not necessarily for the benefit of the developers themselves (gratitude is hard to come by I know) but for the benefit of a large contingent of AVSIM members who might actually prefer to ask for and seek help in what now has become a less strict and more relaxed forum location. 

Or if they take up too many ongoing resources maybe archiving them in a cheaper and simpler served location so we users can use them as a reference library in future. 

I think there is considerable historical value in maintaining records of the growth of a successful company and its staff. It encourages future discussions to be at least respectful if not actually friendly. 

 

 

[Jim Young 2,356]

4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Or if they take up too many ongoing resources maybe archiving them in a cheaper and simpler served location so we users can use them as a reference library in future. 

Thanks for your comments.  I am moving some of the old forums down to the Other Forums section.  Some have been closed for further posting but they are there for members to research.  In a way it is a tough balancing act.

[sloppysmusic 242]

6 hours ago, Jim Young said:

Thanks for your comments.  I am moving some of the old forums down to the Other Forums section.  Some have been closed for further posting but they are there for members to research.  In a way it is a tough balancing act.

Good call. There's no need IMO to keep 'live' decades of material when an archive suits it better. The 'lure' of AVSIM has always been 2 pronged for me. 1) The rich and deep information sources available which are problem solving and instructive. 2) The 'community' side where you can get help the same day with a problem or at least sympathy if none is available. As long as these 2 different uses can be found easily and not confused with each other I'm very happy with the way it all is setup. Friendly forums and a Simviation Vault. Thanks guys!