20 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I went from 4.4. to 4.5. (Client only) by following Poppets instructions..

1. Uninstall 4.4. Client - do NOT deactivate the P3D install

2. Delete Shaders folder (or its contents)

3. Install the 4.5. Client, and be patient when starting up P3D.. it needs to rebuild the shaders.

That is it! 

 

 

That's one indication of trying to avoid something that can go wrong if you've installed something that messes with the sim. In your case: Shaders.

When you get an upgrade from LM the shaders requiring a rebuild are already flagged (for rebuild), so no need to delete the shaders. Which, if you sim all over the world, can take months to replace in reality. Generally most are built in the first two minutes giving rise to poor performance during then.

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by SteveW

...also, don't forget to consider that the Prepar3D.CFG file might need renaming to start a new one. Going back over the thread I think this and other ideas were mentioned.

1 hour ago, SteveW said:

That's one indication of trying to avoid something that can go wrong if you've installed something that messes with the sim. In your case: Shaders.

When you get an upgrade from LM the shaders requiring a rebuild are already flagged (for rebuild), so no need to delete the shaders. Which, if you sim all over the world, can take months to replace in reality. Generally most are built in the first two minutes giving rise to poor performance during then.

Think he means deleting the actual Shaders themselves not the cache, as in ShadersHLSL, sometimes when uninstalling client if you've modified the shaders they won't all be deleted.

7 hours ago, itsjase said:

sometimes when uninstalling client if you've modified the shaders they won't all be deleted.

...which is why it’s necessary to restore the original shaders (ShadersHLSL) before updating Client. If you don’t, I’m guessing you could run into problems next time you run PTA or TomatoShade. Always best to aim for a fresh start when updating.

Mike

8 hours ago, itsjase said:

Think he means deleting the actual Shaders themselves not the cache, as in ShadersHLSL, sometimes when uninstalling client if you've modified the shaders they won't all be deleted.

I think folk don't understand the shaders.

These are the instructions that describe the shaders.

They build the cache - that's the code of the shaders when the sim runs.

Once they've been built they might be updated when LM decides to change them.

There is no need to delete them because the ones required for change are flagged for changes in the update from LM and are rebuilt when you run the sim.

 

If you used an addon that changed them then it's possible these addons don't respect that, and so a plan has evolved to remove the cache and shader instructions completely first.

 

 

44 minutes ago, SteveW said:

I think folk don't understand the shaders.

These are the instructions that describe the shaders.

They build the cache - that's the code of the shaders when the sim runs.

Once they've been built they might be updated when LM decides to change them.

There is no need to delete them because the ones required for change are flagged for changes in the update from LM and are rebuilt when you run the sim.

 

If you used an addon that changed them then it's possible these addons don't respect that, and so a plan has evolved to remove the cache and shader instructions completely first.

 

 

I know how shaders work haha.

I'm just trying to say shader addons modify the shader source files (ShadersHLSL) and sometimes uninstalling client doesn't remove the modified ones, which can cause issues after an update.

7 minutes ago, itsjase said:

I know how shaders work haha.

I'm just trying to say shader addons modify the shader source files (ShadersHLSL) and sometimes uninstalling client doesn't remove the modified ones, which can cause issues after an update.

Sorry, perhaps you got the wrong end of the stick.

Poppet is a problem solver that works a lot on this stuff and is very helpful. The solution evolved is to simply remove the lot as Bert said.

I'm not saying you guys don't understand shaders, What I'm saying is that overall even the expert shader god isn't sure what's happened to them after messing with shader mods. So remove them. That is also the gist of what I was saying. I remove the entire thing in effect by renaming the proper set of folders.

 

...guys. I (and Poppet) look at these problems as a user base, it is not the same idea as a personal user might see it. The nature of my posts are directed at solving the issues overall, not aimed at the individual. That's what I mean by evolving a plan. A plan that captures problems across all users, without having to know the exact situation underneath. My point was that as a developer I can't rely on just removing the shaders, so I posted the detail on how to do the complete thing. Bert's post is well meaning but it can still lead to many systems with problems. Sometimes systems get a bit tangled and it's best to start fresh. I have no option to start fresh. What Bert is saying is there's generally little to do wink-smiley.

 

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by SteveW

...yep, re-reading my post I said 'folk'. So let's keep it nice, when you look there's some degree of confusion surrounding the subjects in discussion. I'm not usually having the time to compose an entire post so make a trawl of posts when I'm dealing with something. I don't generally have much time to make my posts seem loveable, but I am here to help, honest! 🙂

2 hours ago, SteveW said:

Sorry, perhaps you got the wrong end of the stick.

Poppet is a problem solver that works a lot on this stuff and is very helpful. The solution evolved is to simply remove the lot as Bert said.

I'm not saying you guys don't understand shaders, What I'm saying is that overall even the expert shader god isn't sure what's happened to them after messing with shader mods. So remove them. That is also the gist of what I was saying. I remove the entire thing in effect by renaming the proper set of folders.

 

Sorry if my response sounded like I was annoyed, bad choice of words.

In the end we are all just trying to help each other.

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by itsjase

This is what drives me nuts. It took me literally 3 days of "horsing" around to go from 4.3 to 4.4. I was very happy with it in the end. And I really only have a few addons: A2A, REX4, FlyTampa scenery (and a few other islands), and UTX Caribbean. And it takes days for a relatively computer-literate person like myself to do. And then you go on here and read these threads, there's 36 ways to do everything, everyone has a different suggestion. And in the end I think, why bother? Only to do it again in 4-6 months.

prepar3D V4.5 land night illumination very bad,not realistic

It is a bit of a worry to embark on an upgrade, even as an experienced PC user.

We need the sim to be 'open', with that comes variation in the way things can work. On a console it only works one way. So instead we get a variance in the possibilities, we have to live with it. We want any kind of new exciting development, we want devs getting on with those things. It can all come out with a few differences here and there and we evolve ways to deal with it (such as shader mods situation).

We have a kind of responsibility when advising users on these forums. We can see the problems come with the type of addons we may have installed rather than being inherent in the simulator itself.

So whittling it down; if we are reasonably experienced we can copy the old sim and rename it, and so on, so that we can install the update as if it was the first time on there. With the P3D system we should be able to just shift over any previously installed addon with ease back into the active folder. Actually not that much expertise is required.

Otherwise we just go ahead with client upgrade and make sure to deal with the possibility of problems like deleting the shaders, renaming the Prepar3D.cfg.

In any case we may be waiting for updates to addon's that require rebuilding each time as they refer programmatically to moved locations within the running program. Refer back to Cruachan's 14 point posts before starting out.

 

Hopefully that's made upgrading seem a little less vast. 🙂

 

 

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by SteveW

8 hours ago, unal narcin said:

prepar3D V4.5 land night illumination very bad,not realistic

maybe for you bud

15 hours ago, SteveW said:

So whittling it down; if we are reasonably experienced we can copy the old sim and rename it, and so on, so that we can install the update as if it was the first time on there. With the P3D system we should be able to just shift over any previously installed addon with ease back into the active folder. Actually not that much expertise is required.

Otherwise we just go ahead with client upgrade and make sure to deal with the possibility of problems like deleting the shaders, renaming the Prepar3D.cfg.

In any case we may be waiting for updates to addon's that require rebuilding each time as they refer programmatically to moved locations within the running program. Refer back to Cruachan's 14 point posts before starting out.

Thanks for this. So if I follow the 14 steps I'm reasonably assured to come out okay? Or just have a go with the pinned method for updating with the component installers?