Karelpatch

Mixing P3D traffic with Voxatc traffic?

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

In my last flights, even though I had the Voxatc traffic slider to 100%, I felt that the sky was a bit empty. Same at big airports, not much action with mostly planes at gates. So I added 5-10% of traffic within the P3D settings. 

Does it make any sense? Does it interfere with Voxatc in any way? 

And is it normal that I don’t see many planes in the sky even with the slider at 100%? (I use BGL traffic files.)

 

thanks!

Edited by Karelpatch

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It won't hurt anything too much to add more traffic from the sim's UI. AI aircraft may collide on the ground and take off and land from the wrong runways, but that's because VOXATC is not controlling the sim's AI. VOXATC also won't communicate with the sim's AI aircraft.

But you should consider the following. Except around major International airports, there aren't very many aircraft that are airborne in real life. And not that many planes take off in any given minute. Second, the traffic densities in the sim are highly dependent on what traffic BGL files you use. I recommend AIG traffic files. They have their own installer app which finds all the correct models and liveries. The AIG traffic files reflect actual RL schedules. You should also take a look at this thread:

 

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7 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

It won't hurt anything too much to add more traffic from the sim's UI. AI aircraft may collide on the ground and take off and land from the wrong runways, but that's because VOXATC is not controlling the sim's AI. VOXATC also won't communicate with the sim's AI aircraft.

But you should consider the following. Except around major International airports, there aren't very many aircraft that are airborne in real life. And not that many planes take off in any given minute. Second, the traffic densities in the sim are highly dependent on what traffic BGL files you use. I recommend AIG traffic files. They have their own installer app which finds all the correct models and liveries. The AIG traffic files reflect actual RL schedules. You should also take a look at this thread:

 

Thank you. Yes I already use the AIG traffic files 🙂

I know that in real life most small or medium sized airports are supposed to be in standby most of the time but I like to have some more action. I fly GA exclusively. 

I have a last question: when I set 100% traffic in Voxatc I feel like I don’t get as much traffic as when I set 30% in P3D settings. Is that normal?

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6 hours ago, Karelpatch said:

I have a last question: when I set 100% traffic in Voxatc I feel like I don’t get as much traffic as when I set 30% in P3D settings. Is that normal?

With AIG flightplans, that is correct. The sim's activity level slider has no effect on AIG flightplans as all flights are set to a 1% activity level to reflect real world airline schedules. So the slider only has an impact if you set it to 0% and then you would see no AI aircraft at all. The AIG-OCI manager has a setting where you can vary the activity levels within a range and that would allow the P3d4 slider to actually do something.

In contrast, VOXATC seems to only take all the flights in a flightplan and use whatever percentage of them that is set with the VOXATC AI activity level slider. No one is really positive about this though, as how the VOXATC AI slider works is not documented anywhere. VOXATC also has a partially documented "traffic limiter" feature that is described in this post in the thread that I linked above:

I you leave all the AIG flightplans in their default format (1% activity) and increase all those settings in the VOXATC configuration file (especially the <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" /> setting), you should see plenty of traffic. Also, make sure that you don't have another traffic limiter active, like the one in FSUIPC5.

If you want more than real world traffic levels, the only way to do that is to add in more traffic in parallel by setting the P3d4 IFR (commercial) AI traffic to something non-zero. But doing so can create confusing ground traffic patterns, as stated previously.

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Amazing explanation. Thank you so much. It makes much more sense now. Will try the “true” value for sure. 

Voxatc is amazingly cool and frustrating at the same time. The advices in this forum help a lot. 

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4 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

 <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" /> setting

I had *NO* idea this was a setting!  Thanks for this, Jabloomf1230!

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4 minutes ago, tjrush said:

Which .config file do these changes go in?

It’s in Appdata/Roaming/Internal Workings/VoxATC P3D 4/VaSettings.xml

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tjrush said:

Thank you!

 

Edit: actually I thought I would find the value there but it Isn’t...

Edit 2: I guess we need to add it manually? Will try.

Edit 3: I think it works!

Edited by Karelpatch

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Posted (edited)

Hi !

If you want to increase the ai traffic AI how can we do that ?

I've a french traffic General AI installed : the real aircratft in the right airfield...

in LFOU, I have 5-6 aircraft, but with voxatc I only have one with an other from an other airfield...

I want to increase the number of airgraft from LFOU...

 

Edited by supersym

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Posted (edited)

Cool airport. It even has a small runway for RC aircraft.

I'm assuming that you mean that without VOXATC, but with using the sim's two AI activity level sliders, you see 5 to 6 AI aircraft at any given time. But with VOXATC, you only see one AI aircraft, even with the VOXATC slider at 100%?

The settings mentioned in the other thread probably won't help you:

Quote

<MaxParkedAircraft Value="120" />
		...
      <MaxEnrouteAircraft Value="xxx" />
      <MaxActiveTerminalAircraft Value="yyy" />
      <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" />

as you are nowhere near any of the default limits in VASettings.xml for LFOU.

I would first make sure that LFOU has the correct parking types to accommodate your GA flightplan schedules. This can be checked with either LittleNavMap or Airport Design Editor. The sim itself will place AI aircraft at the correct parking types. When those fill up, additional AI aircraft will spill into incorrect parking types. From my casual understanding of how VOXATC works in that same regard, if the correct parking types don't exist for an AI aircraft, you will never see them at that airport. The stock version of LFOU has 2 ramp GA small, 2 ramp GA medium and a fuel parking spot.

Another thing to consider is the GA schedule BGL file itself. You can look at it with AI Flight Planner. An even better way to look at the schedules is with another piece of freeware, AI Companion:

https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=29651.0

Lastly, you can mix sim and VOXATC AI traffic by using a non-zero value for the activity level slider in the sim. This of course, can lead to collisions and contradictory behavior between the VOXATC AI and the sim's AI. At a small airport like LFOU, this problem might not be noticeable.,

Edited by jabloomf1230

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hi,

The parkings are updated by the editor of the AI GA  French Traffic 

 

 

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There is one more thing that you can check. Search to see if you have multiple versions of LFOU active in your scenery library. Many generic add-on packages contain airports. 

As an aside, I use my old MyTraffic 6 worldwide generic AI traffic BGL file , albeit with substituting better models. I tend to have a surplus of GA traffic in VOXATC at small airports. In addition, I often see AI aircraft doing circuits/touch and goes.

 

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I will check all my LFOU...bgl

may be there is a few somewhere...

BTW, where can I put my GA AI French traffic bgl at the best place ?

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It doesn't matter where traffic bgl files are located in your scenery library list. They do not have any priority attached to them. I use AIG schedules and they are in their own folder in a scenery subfolder. 

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Hi Jab,

I’ve only just discovered this post in my search for answers to the lack of VOX AI traffic so apologies for extending this even further.

i was very interested in your discovery of the 4 lines that you tested in the VASettings XML file. They weren’t present in mine so I added them myself. Unfortunately they made no difference. For convenience I just put them at the top of the list but I was wondering if they need to be placed in a certain position?

Just to elaborate on that, I do have some traffic, for example at my home airport EGKK I get 40 to 50% with p3d AI set at zero and VOX at 100%, but if I try KMIA for example there is nothing. 

I started using P3D V4 earlier this year and installed all my WOAI traffic from my old FSX.  As far as I can recall the AI volume was excellent other than the fact that a lot of the models weren’t suitable for V4. I was so glad when AIG developed their OCI. I thought that this was a dream come true. I’ve installed everything that they have available so far so I’m not short of airlines. If I use P3D AI traffic at 100% then I get plenty of traffic everywhere including KMIA. You are right what you say not understanding how VOX reads the bgl’s. it’s a mystery to me too, surely the indexer should read the files exactly how P3D does but obviously it doesn’t.

I have been using UT Live but I miss the interaction that VOX gives. I was wondering whether to uninstall UT altogether in case that messes with the indexer in some way? I was also wondering if VOX needs an update? If you look at the VOX updates in VOX NEWS the first mention of V4 was 31st July 2018 with the last update being 3rd October 2018. We’re now up to V 4.5 with P3D so nothing’s changed for 9 months. I’m sure you know that VOX is not one of best developers for keeping us advised on progress.

Anyway, I hope that you may be able to offer me some suggestions or any further progress that you have made yourself.

Many thanks,

Mike

 

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On 7/4/2019 at 11:13 AM, mikelockwood said:

i was very interested in your discovery of the 4 lines that you tested in the VASettings XML file. They weren’t present in mine so I added them myself. Unfortunately they made no difference. For convenience I just put them at the top of the list but I was wondering if they need to be placed in a certain position?

No. Just make sure that you don't have a typo. Read further, as it seems you may have other problems. I'd also look into using the traffic limiter options in FSUIPC5, when you get your AI installation cleaned up. If anything, VOXATC will produce too much traffic, especially around big international airports.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 11:13 AM, mikelockwood said:

I started using P3D V4 earlier this year and installed all my WOAI traffic from my old FSX. 

These BGL files are by default in FS9 format. When mixed with FSX formatted traffic BGL files the results are unpredictable and often there is no traffic at most airports. Having only one non-converted FS9 formatted BGL file will gum up everything, unfortunately.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 11:13 AM, mikelockwood said:

I was also wondering if VOX needs an update?

 No. VOXATC 7.42 works fine with any V4 flavor of P3d. It's relatively bug-free, which is a good thing since official support is non-existent.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 11:13 AM, mikelockwood said:

I have been using UT Live but I miss the interaction that VOX gives. I was wondering whether to uninstall UT altogether in case that messes with the indexer in some way?

Get rid of all your payware traffic apps and old WOAI BGL files and install Alpha India Groups  Manager with One Click Installer:

https://www.alpha-india.net/2019/05/05/aig-ai-manager-version-0-9-release/

It's donationware and it automatically finds the best flightplans and models for each airline worldwide. There is a lot written about AIGM OCI both here and on the AIG forums. No AI add-on for FSX, P3d or XP even comes close.

  • Upvote 1

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Hi Jay,

First of all, many thanks for replying to my post even when you are so busy.

On 7/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

No. Just make sure that you don't have a typo. Read further, as it seems you may have other problems. I'd also look into using the traffic limiter options in FSUIPC5, when you get your AI installation cleaned up. If anything, VOXATC will produce too much traffic, especially around big international airports.

As far as I'm aware there are no typo's in my additional lines to the XML which I have copied from Notepad.

 <MaxParkedAircraft Value="50" />
 <MaxEnrouteAircraft Value="30" />
 <MaxActiveTerminalAircraft Value="20" />
 <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" />

The only other thing I did was space in 2 or 3 times to line the lines up in the list. Would this make a difference? I know that sometimes extra spaces, commas etc can affect things.

On 7/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

These BGL files are by default in FS9 format. When mixed with FSX formatted traffic BGL files the results are unpredictable and often there is no traffic at most airports. Having only one non-converted FS9 formatted BGL file will gum up everything, unfortunately.

I ran a search on my drive for any old WOAI files bgl's or otherwise, it's all clean. I also ran AIFP and scanned the entire drive for any old FS9 bgl's. That came up clean too.

On 7/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

Get rid of all your payware traffic apps and old WOAI BGL files and install Alpha India Groups  Manager with One Click Installer:

I've deleted UT Live now and as I already mentioned in my original post, I already have Alpha India's OCI installed and have downloaded every model/flight plan available.

Soooo... After all of that I've run P3D V4 using VOX ATC only at between 50% - 100% and I'm still getting the same. Traffic at some airports and none at others. As I mentioned previously,

there is absolutely zero at KMIA but if I switch across to KLAX for example, that is full of AI. Both are stock airports by the way. Sometimes a destination airport can be empty too.

So I'm at a loss......

Any further assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks once and again and best wishes,

Mike

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Okay, all that looks good. I wanted to get all the obvious causes out of the way so at least now we have a common basis for troubleshooting. First, I would download and install the freeware utilities AI Companion and possibly Little NavMap. First try AIC:

https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=29651.0

Run AIC, the sim and get VOXATC all set up with an IFR flightplan with KMIA as your departure airport.  Check AIC's Live Mode and see what AI aircraft are active. Check that list against one of the other AIC modes to see what should be active. The AIC Live mode will not display some of the VOXATC AI aircraft fields correctly, because VOXATC uses SimConnect to create and manipulate its AI aircraft.

Lets go from there.

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Hi Jay,

Thanks once again for the reply. I’ve just had a glimpse at the link provided, it looks really promising. I will download later and experiment over the next couple of days.

Regards, Mike

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Hi Jay,

I've had a few days to get used to AIC which is a great utility. I set up everything as you suggested in your post but, using VOX with the VOX slider at 100%, I get 0 planes on the ground and 0 planes in the air at KMIA. Then, turning off VOX off and moving the P3D traffic slider to 100% I get 50 planes on the ground and 17 in the air. 

I've had a look at the other tabs in AIC and I see that one is labelled BGL report. I noticed that some airlines had warnings/errors ticked with an explanation given below. I'm not sure if this is relevant to my problem and affects VOX as I'm inexperienced with this information. 

I hope that you will be able to explain what the next step will be.

Regards,

Mike

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Mike,

If there's traffic at KMIA using the default ATC, then the problem probably doesn't have anything to do with the AIG schedules and models. But you might want to ask about the AIG errors on their official support forum. Which version of KMIA are you using?

Jay

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Hi Jay,

Thanks once again for the reply. I’ve just had a glimpse at the link provided, it looks really promising. I will download later and experiment over the next couple of days.

Regards, Mike

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Hi Jay,

I'm only using the stock airport KMIA. The only thing that I’ve changed is to reinstate the taxi links as the aircraft were running across grass. I also tried KSFO which is stock and has had no modifications done whatsoever but that has zero AI using VOX. On the other hand, KLAX is full of aircraft using VOX. I also tried a fresh install of VOX as well just in case it was corrupt in some way.

It’s frustrating that VOX is so hit and miss. It worked so well on my old PC with Steam FSX. My new PC was purchased with a higher spec with the sole purpose of using it for P3D V4 only. I will certainly see if AIG can help me further but thanks for all you help.

Mike

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