**Rant - Join in if you want **

[Guest Fjorko]

Well, I'll probably be hated after this but what the $$%^&*(, here goes :____From a civilian Sim point of view___What HAS actually been improved in FSX apart from better looking textures and some reflective surfaces with light bloom etc ?I don't know everything about FsimX, and I don't pretend to, but COME ON, almost all questions about the IMPOTANT things people want to see fixed have either been dismissed as" ..We will not be implementing this or that because of X and Y etc..." or " ..have BLAH BLAH been fixed ?...ANSWER : not that I'm aware of " or" ..it can be fixed by add-on developers...... HUH ??? "Then there is the discussion about FSIM becoming more of a GAME than a SIM..... If people want to fly through hoops and poles or make barrel rolls and write their names in the sky or go and rescue some poor soul on an OIL RIG, why not make a AEROBATIC/EMERGENCY RESPONSE FLIGHT GAME SIM THING or WHATEVER to do this.I always respected FSIM to be a tool that can enhance our skills in precision and procedural flying - no matter what the environment throws at us, and therefore I am disappointed to see that most of the important aspects of the SIM (at least what we regard as important) SEEM to have been neglected at the cost of making it more enjoyabe and appealing to NON-hardcore simmers.This is just my opinion - what do you think ?

[n4gix 4,949]

>This is just my opinion - what do you think ?I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. Don't go making wild assumptions about what hasn't been said... ...in due time, more and more will be revealed. I'm confident that while there will be some disappointments - after all, not everyone's pet interests can be met - what will be in FSX will be astonishing and satisfying. :)

[RFields5421 1]

First we really don't know what will be in the next version, but I'll certainly expect that almost all of the marketing and demo and screen shots will be focused at the NEW buyer of Flight Sim.Another thing MS cannot do is make FS an environment which REQUIRES precision procedureal skills. The "game", and yes it is a game, must be accessible and attractive to a very wide customer base. And that customer base must grow with each release.Face the fact - almost everyone on this forum is going to buy the game within the first month. We may not use it as our primary sim for months, but we are surely going to buy and explore.The "hardcore simmers" will be on a voyage of discovery for the first few months.When FS2004 came out, many people who call themselves hardcore simmers complained about "nothing new".The reality was that FS2004 was a massive leap forward toward realistic flying.Real world approach procedures built in from the start. The GPS to display the approaches, almost like having a Jeppsen chart book in your lap. The GPS will actually fly the approaches, or you can fly them manually and follow the track on the GPS.Just look at the threads of people asking how to fly a "Circle to Land" or an NDB or a VOR or a GPS approach. Look at how many people tried to "fix" the offset LDA at LFPB or PHNL because "Microsoft messed up the ILS".Since July 2003 you have been able to plot your course using SIDS/STARS and real world approaches and fly flights that way with the default flight planner and GPS and ATC.Yes, it will not do it automatically for you - it requires you to act like a real world pilot and pullout the charts and plates, choose your waypoints and enter the data in the flight plan.If we wanted total realism, there would be no "automatic" flight planner in FS.If we created an illegal flight plan - the clearance center would reject our flight plan. Maybe they would give us an alternate, maybe they would tell us to pullout the charts and refile.FS2004 offers a very realistic flying world out of the box.Yes, there are companies who add extensively to the realism, and realistic devices like FMS computers. That addon community must have a reason to continue to exist. MS cannot do it all, neither from a technologically capability within time limits standpoint, nor from a marketing standpoint.Flight Simulator is a wonderful open development environment. It can be frustrating at times, because the same thing which makes it open for all the fantastic addons also makes it difficult to learn.I don't hear hardcore simmers saying they should have stayed with FS2002, and I don't think I'll hear that about FSX and FS2004 in two years.Patience please.

[Guest firehawk44]

Way too early to rant I believe as the developer has stated FSX shown at E3 is pre-beta.JimYoung

[Guest tdragger]

It depends on what your definition of 'is' is.

[Jay R 0]

Arrgh.....I would suggest the OP and others who wish to post similar frustration, take one of these and post in the morning: :-lol

http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/149463.gif

EDIT: To remove frustrating spelling mistakes. My mother would be ashamed! :-lol[hr color=#000000][table border=0" width="98%" id="table1" height="4" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2][td width=500]Jason[br /]General Aviation Fan[br][/b]P4 3.2Ghz, 1GB Ram, FX5900 128MB, XP SP2.[br /][br /]

[turner112 52]

"Another thing MS cannot do is make FS an environment which REQUIRES precision procedureal skills."Why not?I'm not saying they should. I'm just saying they could, but not require it.After all, we're not actually required to do much. Nothing, in fact ;)Of course, the more potential there is, the better the 3rd party folks get. So maybe, an "accessible" procedural trainer. Missions, even..---Andrew

[RFields5421 1]

Okay I should modify that - "From a marketing stand point, MS cannot"Simply because the number of "hardcore simmers" who would buy the product are too few to support the development and production costs.Personally, I've longed wished for a "Novice" and "Realistic" mode at the start of FS.In the realistic mode you have to file a legal flight plan (that might be hard to implement). Other things - no turning off crash detection, fly according to procedures - no "Vectors to final". Things like "Cleared direct to FINGR" then it's up to me to figure our where the FINGR intersection is located and fly direct to it.Once I figured out how to identify the fix that FS was wanting me to fly toward, I eliminated almost all the heading correction messages.

[slashed2 53]

Yeah, patience is a virtue, I'm sure they are still working on different aspects of the sim and won't confirm other features many are waiting/hoping for until they are ready to do so. As far as the missions, I'm curious as to what defines a hard-core flight simmer? Military pilots fly missions as do rescue teams and missions could help improve flight skills and instrument flying as well. Sure, flying through hoops can be construed gamey as is flying through pylons etc, but it also is a test of skill considering the controls are not arcade style but simulation... and landing on an aircraft carrier or an oil rig in my opinion is not soft-core but could be considered a test of skill depending on weather conditions.Just taking a different view, again, patience seems to be the on-going theme... the release date is not a week away, and the developers I'm guessing need time to ensure all the features will make the final cut before informing the consumer. Nothing worse than saying that software A will have feature A, B and C and having to remove C due to insufficient time, or worse yet, major software crashing bugs.Ian.

[tgibson 11]

Hi,I'm hoping that the missions format can be used to create an "airliner flight" mission, complete with cabin and cockpit announcements, pilot responses to various situations (i.e. above 500 ft AGL pilot calls out "Gear Up", when over 140 kts calls "Flaps Up", etc.) and all the rest that makes up a true airline piloting experience.Take care,--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

[turner112 52]

Hi Reggie - Sorry, thought I posted this a while ago, but I guess it didn't take.Anyway, you say"From a marketing stand point, MS cannot"but it's not a marketing issue. Surely, if the team were able to deploy such a rigorous flight environment, you'd be able to shut it off.Regarding features, a marketing issue is one which might ask how you reach an audience. A budgetary issue, which this is, must first ask if the audience exists - and, obviously, how to expand the current audience.---Andrew

[frankla 44]

I fly for hobby in real life! Why do I fly? View from Above and Scenery! ! So when people dismiss eye candy in FS, I cringe! Don't get me wrong, I 'd love more procedural fidelity, but please be aware that visual imporvements are very important to many people. Otherwise why are there so many add-on packages for improving landscape, mesh etc? Why are there airplanes with such detailed extrior modeling?

[Geofa 108]

...and I fly for real hobby. I also cringe for the same reasons ("eye candy"). Ditto on all your points! :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest lemonadedrinker]

Hi,We just don't know what is gonna be in FSX and there is no real need to get all het up just yet. I hardly know what's in FS9 at the moment and have still lots of exploring to do; but I'll still be buying FSX asap.>>>>I always respected FSIM to be a tool that can enhance our skills in precision and procedural flying - no matter what the environment throws at us, and therefore I am disappointed to see that most of the important aspects of the SIM (at least what we regard as important) SEEM to have been neglected at the cost of making it more enjoyabe and appealing to NON-hardcore simmers.<<

[mgh 89]

>..I am disappointed to>see that most of the important aspects of the SIM (at least>what we regard as important) SEEM to have been neglected at>the cost of making it more enjoyabe and appealing to>NON-hardcore simmers.>>This is just my opinion - what do you think ?>I think it's rubbish. If Flight Simulator didn't appeal to non-hardcore simmers it wouldn't exist, because there wouldn't be a viable market for it.