SledDriver

Cockpit head movement

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What do I need in order to move my eye view around the cockpit as in this video? Is one system better than others? And what does it cost to add this functionality?

 

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Video appears to be using EZdok but I'd suggest Chaseplane. Better interface, better support and a better reputation. EZdok has been a bit all over the place.

Then you can set up keys and controllers to move around, look around with the mouse in a fluid fashion, hotkeys to pan between your own preset views etc. among many other things.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks. Sethos. I'll take a look.

I see Chaseplane is compatible with TrackIR. So do you recommend using it with that, or just with buttons and mouse type controllers?

Edited by SledDriver

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TrackIR alone will do pretty much what you have in the video, however chaseplane and ezdok are fancier interfaces. Many people really like them, I've used both and keep coming back to TIR. Just one less thing to run IMHO.

Vic

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43 minutes ago, SledDriver said:

Thanks. Sethos. I'll take a look.

I see Chaseplane is compatible with TrackIR. So do you recommend using it with that, or just with buttons and mouse type controllers?

That depends on what you prefer. Some swear by TrackIR and others, like myself, find it a bit cumbersome in non-combat sims. I can't be bothered hooking all that up, dealing with additional wires, additional software, view resetting and pausing, all to look a bit left and right to hit some buttons. I find my joystick's POV hat / mouse view and a few hotkeys much more straight forward in that case. Still need to use my mouse to click buttons, might as well use it look around as well in the setup phase.

But, it's fully compatible with everything. You can even hook up an Xbox controller and look around with that. So just figure out what suits your fancy but regardless, it'll always be an upgrade over P3D's own mediocre camera system.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Sethos1988 said:

I can't be bothered
- hooking all that up
- dealing with additional wires
- additional software
- view resetting and pausing
- all to look a bit left and right to hit some buttons.

As you wrote, it surely depends on what you prefer. But after reading the above, I thought I would chime in, as for someone considering TrackIR, it might sound like this is something very impractical, troublesome and not worth having.
I believe it largely depends on how well you organise your equipment and the environment around you and how much (and what kind of) immersion you need for your satisfaction.

So, based on my long-time experience with TrackIR (first v4, now v5):

1. Once set up, there is really no hooking of any kind.

2. There are zero additional wires. The tiny receiver stands on top of the monitor (connected all the time), and for the time of flying I just put on my wireless headphones (which I always use) with the small and light TrackClip attached to it.
    Sure you can buy and use TrackClip Pro, which does mean one extra cable, but even though I have it, I don't use it, as I found my on-headphones / on-cap trackclip to be working just fine.

3. One piece of additional software in case of us using Prepar3D with tones of add-ons? 😉 No problem for me. One click before launching P3D and you forget it (just like ActiveSky, ASCA, VAInterface or whatever else you use to enhance your simming experience).

4. Once properly set and callibrated, TrackIR doesn't really require resetting in flight. If you are a perfectionist, you may tap the assigned key once or twice - no more hassle than kicking a joystick's hat-switch, a mouse button or a space bar.
    Pausing? Sure, one comfortable click of a button in case I need/want it. No problem whatsoever.

5. For looking 'a bit left or right'? No, not in my case! TrackIR lets me naturally look around the whole cockpit, operate anything I need, look through the windshield, monitor all panels during checklists and have a fantastic free view on finals to the airport.

Does it play well with Chaseplane? It sure does. First I was not convinced. I though to myself I don't need chaseplane when I have TrackIR. But I decided to buy Chaseplane and give it a try.
I must say it plays very well with TrackIR. You can decide with views will be supported with TIR-based head movements and which will not - a very handy feature of the Chaseplane's GUI.

Again, full respect for those who don't like TrackIR. I, personally, could not fly without it. And I tried, so I know what I'm talking about. 🙂
I just wanted to show a different perspective from someone who has been successfully using TrackIR for many years.

Edited by Rafal
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Posted (edited)

Never having used TrackIR, can you explain what you do with your head to look out the side window, such as on a base leg before final approach, assuming I have only one monitor for simplicity.

I have horrible visions of having to turn my head sideways to instruct TrackIR I want to look sideways, but the monitor is still in front of me, so do I end up looking out of the corner of my eyes to see the monitor, which is in the wrong place for a sideways view?

Might seem like a daft question, but I've not seen a video of one being used to help me understand the practicalities of it in use.

Same question for looking up at an overhead panel.

And for looking closely at a panel too see detail/small text.

Sorry if my questions seem basic, but I've not had any experience of this side of simming.

Edited by SledDriver

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Posted (edited)

You can setup trackir to make it so for example if your turned your head a quarter ways it turns the “sim” head half way, that way there you can turn your head to look out the window but still sorta facing the monitor...not sure if that makes sense the way I explained it...

having said that, I’ve used track IR for a bit and didn’t really enjoy it, I’m now using chaseplane with the mouse to pan function and absolutely love it, so all depends on your personal taste as some people swear by track ir.

Edited by flyinpilot212121

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Yeah. I watched some TIR vids and I'm not sure it will work for me. The disconnect between direction and view could be uncomfortable for me.

Of course what I really want is VR, but I dont think the rez is good enough yet on domestic gear to be able to read all the instruments clearly. Maybe next gen, or next 2 gens...

Might just try chaseplane for now.

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3 minutes ago, SledDriver said:

Yeah. I watched some TIR vids and I'm not sure it will work for me. The disconnect between direction and view could be uncomfortable for me.

Of course what I really want is VR, but I dont think the rez is good enough yet on domestic gear to be able to read all the instruments clearly. Maybe next gen, or next 2 gens...

Might just try chaseplane for now.

That was my issue with track IR, I felt very awkward with my head movements and felt I needed to focus too much on the way I moved my head which made it uncomfortable for me, however maybe in time it’s something I would have gotten used to but I didn’t use it long enough to know for sure.

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The big problem with TIR is that it takes longer to explain what to do than to actually do it. I find no issue at all in looking in any direction. Just a movement of the head just as you would IRL except not as much. There are several flight profiles available for TIR that translate gead movement into screen movement or you can make your own. Using the default profile would drive me crazy as it's not designed for the subtle movements looking around the cockpit, etc.

The  first time I used TIR I almost got nauseous - I got the flight profile and stayed with it. Now, I won't fly w/o TIR.

Vic

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1 minute ago, vgbaron said:

The big problem with TIR is that it takes longer to explain what to do than to actually do it. I find no issue at all in looking in any direction. Just a movement of the head just as you would IRL except not as much. There are several flight profiles available for TIR that translate gead movement into screen movement or you can make your own. Using the default profile would drive me crazy as it's not designed for the subtle movements looking around the cockpit, etc.

The  first time I used TIR I almost got nauseous - I got the flight profile and stayed with it. Now, I won't fly w/o TIR.

Vic

Interesting. Thanks.

I suppose it then comes down to cost. From my initial look, it seems that TrackIR costs about 25-30% of a VR headset, and although VR is not yet as good fidelity as I want for simming, I'd struggle to spend that chunk of money on TIR at this point.

Maybe I'll watch ebay for a TIR for a while. 🙂

I can see that it makes the impossible possible, and that does interest me. I do a lot of GA flying in sims, and flying VFR base legs it s notorious problem using a traditional monitor and view controls. It's very difficult to judge a final turn.

Maybe TIR can offer enough value in that area to keep me interested until VR goes mainstream for simming.

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40 minutes ago, SledDriver said:

Interesting. Thanks.

I suppose it then comes down to cost. From my initial look, it seems that TrackIR costs about 25-30% of a VR headset, and although VR is not yet as good fidelity as I want for simming, I'd struggle to spend that chunk of money on TIR at this point.

Maybe I'll watch ebay for a TIR for a while. 🙂

I can see that it makes the impossible possible, and that does interest me. I do a lot of GA flying in sims, and flying VFR base legs it s notorious problem using a traditional monitor and view controls. It's very difficult to judge a final turn.

Maybe TIR can offer enough value in that area to keep me interested until VR goes mainstream for simming.

I feel that If you can get used to Track IR, this is where it would offer a huge advantage would be with GA flying. 

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1 hour ago, flyinpilot212121 said:

I feel that If you can get used to Track IR, this is where it would offer a huge advantage would be with GA flying. 

Agreed. Depending on the a/c I can track the runway just as I did IRL. Makes the circling carrier type approach a snap.

@Sleddriver - ebay is a good idea - I picked up a second one a while back for under $100.

Vic

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I've tried TrackIR a couple times and just never could make the leap.

I never got used to the need to keep my head position fixed and motionless if I didn't want my eyepoint wobbling around, or having to push a button or key to freeze/unfreeze the tracking motion.

The view was pretty unstable at large off-center head position angles, and would frequently snap abruptly to weird vertical positions, requiring a button or key to reset to center.

On a large-format display like my 48-inch wide and 27 inch tall (55 inch diagonal) 4K TV at a 39" viewing distance, it's really difficult to place the camera into a usable position where it's not offset too far off-center to track effectively..  On small monitors, which I think were the original design target, you clip the IR camera to the top of the monitor where the camera can get a relatively straight-on view at the reflector targets on a headset or hat clip. 

I instead use OpusFSI's camera management to define a group of preset views (e.g. fwd left/right seat, 45/90/135 left and right, overhead panel, a couple oblique pedestal views, etc), and pan between those preset views with the 12 programmable side buttons on a Logitech G600 MMO gaming mouse and/or the 22 buttons on a Logitech G13 gaming keyboard.  I also use mouse panning activated by holding down a button on my yoke.  With my large format display, which is fairly close (~80%) to the actual size of a real panel, there's a tremendous amount of panel real estate up front, so the amount of view panning needed is reduced...even more so with the FMS heads and EFB units running remote on a few iPad tablets.

I highly recommend trying to find a seller with a good return option so you can try it, decide for yourself, and have a return option if you don't care for it.

Regards

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