One of 'em is a bit bothered by the 'naysayers' so to speak concerning the 'new FSX birds'well, I am one of the naysayers. Lets put it this way - remember those asnine chickens we saw in the barn for the FS9 demo vid? You know what that brought to the FS9 environment?ZIP, NADAInstead I am stuck an ATC system that goes direct from Center to Tower going into LAX (or any other major) - totally skipping an approach controller. The real world ATC system is talked about quite a bit in their learning center so you think there would be a connect. So from this users point of view;Chickens flapping in barnsdev time spent = who knowsimpact on FS experience = zero ATC lacking departure/approach (1/3 of arspace control)dev time spent = zeroimpact on FS experience = lets just say dont promote ATC on the boxI am sorta on a rampage a bit here, probably because I also read that a MSFS dev is using (exclusivly I might add) an xbox controller for FS sim sessions.I kid you not...so, IN MY OPINION (yes, my opinion only) - I say yes, lets focus a bit more on the gauges, shall we.ok I have taken a breath, flame away.

My understanding of Steve's post was that people were bemoaning how much time was or wasn't spent on the development of "superficial" features, when in reality the time spent was minimal, and that even if they had left those features out, it wouldn't have changed the end product. Besides, as he said, putting in the birds had no effect on the panel developers. "I am sorta on a rampage a bit here, probably because I also read that a MSFS dev is using (exclusivly I might add) an xbox controller for FS sim sessions.I kid you not..."Who cares, really? Should we ostracize him because, heaven forbid, he uses his sim in a different way? I could use FS with my gamepad, if I so chose. I seem to remember that people not too long ago complained that they could no longer use their mouse as a yoke I would be willing to bet that he said that just to see the reaction it would get.

Personal attack removed--JCBirds would make a huge impact on the immersion level of FS, as would dolphins, and sunlight glinting off metal, and the water looking real. Immersion is primarily to do with what you see. I doubt many here would have a full motion setup at home.James

Exactly. Why on Earth does it matter what controller he used. It illustrates that FSX is extremely flexible in how it can be set up.From what I've seen of the screenies, the sim looks superb. The amount of work that would have gone into the visuals alone would have been enoumous. FS9 is fantastic, and each new version of FS has always been far better than the previous (with possible exception of FS2000, but that was 6 years ago).I for one am more than looking forward to it's release.James

You should go an read Steve's post again. The animation and AI systems created for the animals are used in many other parts of the application. The animals themselves are created by the ART TEAM. The panel developers are NOT AFFECTED.John.

Hi Mike,This is not a flame, just a response. "Chickens flapping in barns>dev time spent = who knows>impact on FS experience = zero"Ummm... "dev time" for chickens alone? Neglible. A couple of hours of art time.Impact on FS Experience? Well, for barnstormers it gave a sense of whimsy, which, while small, is hardly equal to zero. ;)As for the x-box controller..."...am sorta on a rampage a bit here, probably because I also read that a MSFS dev is using (exclusivly I might add) an xbox controller for FS sim sessions."Just as an FYI, Mike isn't a code writing developer, he's a program manager. But the major point here is why do you assume that because it's a game pad that it has to be bad? If anything, it's a major improvement for *many* users (you'd be shocked at how many people fly using the keyboard ). If you're using a joystick to fly heavy iron, I can promise you that it's not as real as using a yoke and pedal system (which quite a few of the team fly exclusively). Honestly, don't worry about the controller versus realism. It's a input device, not a way of life. Cheers,Jason

Although I agree with you, when I post anything close to this on content regardless of the reason I certainly get reminded not to. This of course should apply to everyone on Avsim no matter how bad we are baited James.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|

Some people just never can be satisfied Jason, and this is one of them.He'd complain you were spending too much time on things he thinks aren't interesting if you showed him the timesheets of the entire team and that time turned out to be zero.

Whats wrong using an xbox360 controller, my first thought when i saw it in the presentation was that it would be very good to control a helicopter with. And please stop the whining about MSFT adding things you dont think is nessacery, if they dont make the product appeal to average gamers you would not have a flightsimulator at all, simple as that.OHN

What does Windows have MSPaint? Or Notepad? Or Wordpad? Countless hours have been spent on those apps. I don't use them (except Notepad for HTML editor)... MANY MANY people do. I don't #### that they could have used that time for making other things.What doesn't appeal to you probably makes other people smile. Something as trivial as the chickens in the barn storming things were pretty cool. True, after I played that part, I never saw them again... But oh well. Why not?! There are so many features of a lot of things. Cars, software, computers.... Many things you don't use and think of as trivial. To me, it's those little touches that give it some life. At least you know a dev working at MS has fun barnstorming, and it gave many a chuckle.

I agree Randy--just can't be here 24x7 unless someone's willing to pay me. Anyway I have nixed the offending text and I don't expect to see a personal attack like that again. I have also edited the text you quoted from Jimbo although I am leaving the rest of your post intact so no one gets the idea that only I found the post out of line.-John

Not to beat the poor chickens to death, but here's another viewpoint. The chickens are an effect file. I learned some animation tricks from that one. Someday, someone more clever than I, might carry that foward to animated passengers boarding the plane, or some such. I too didn't spend a lot of time flying thru the barn....but got some benefit from those scattered fowl. Also, you might have noticed, they are keyed to a sound file, which opens up other possibilities in FSX when using effects for something other than fireworks, etc. In FS9 the sound effects are very limited, but I am intrigued by the possibilities of being able to trigger sounds in the same manner as other effects. I have found the FS9 adventure language some what difficult to master....as have apparently others, judging by the number of adventures written for the program, perhaps effect files could be a "work around" for some of the simpler adventures.

Part of the problem is that people are looking at screenshots of birds, and making assumptions on other features based on that. Maybe FSX will have a reworked ATC system, maybe not. We don't know yet! At this point we know nothing until a detailed feature list comes out.Screenshots cannot show what has been changed with flight dynamics, atc, and tons of other features that everyone is looking for.

Personally, I like the chickens. I think they are very atmospheric and appropriate to the 'Century of Flight' theme.I always get handed off from Center to an approach controller going into LAX on an IFR flight plan.When I'm VFR and I approach LAX Class B airspace, who do I contact? Approach. That too is modeled in the simulator. Is there an issue here?If 'flaming' (whatever that is) refers to correcting rants from know-nothing wannabes, kindly consider yourself burnt to a crisp.

>So from this users point of view;>>Chickens flapping in barns>dev time spent = who knowsProbably around one day :)>impact on FS experience = zero Subjective..>>ATC lacking departure/approach (1/3 of arspace control)>dev time spent = zero>impact on FS experience = lets just say dont promote ATC on>the boxHard to tell, ATC is not trivial thing, they probably went as far as they could, then postponed developemnt for next version and gave us what they had. I expect improved ATC in FSX and chickens. Both things I enjoy.>>I am sorta on a rampage a bit here, probably because I also>read that a MSFS dev is using (exclusivly I might add) an xbox>controller for FS sim sessions.Hehe, why? XBox controller is very good device for games and you can sit on the couch while using it, it's very ergonomic too. I don't see any reason not to use it for FS if you like.