19 hours ago, MarkDH said:

I think this will depend on what delta value you have set in FSUIPC. You would need to set it to 1 to make a proper comparison and I'm pretty sure it defaults to 256.

You are absolutely correct, and good point!  But I don't believe too many people in flight sim adjust that in FSUIPC. If someone reports an issue who is using FSUIPC (I haven't used it in a very long time), that setting could be contributing a little to what a very few are reporting.

Again, from what I'm experiencing I don't believe there is a problem here.  Moreover, let's remember this is not an $1100 Yoke, but a very high quality Yoke priced at an extremely attractive price compared to other offerings.

By the way, I set the Sensitivity to high and Null to 1 in P3D and did the following video:  CLICK HERE TO WATCH.

I got used to running my sim with less sensitivity because the Pots in my Saitek Yoke were just too darned noisy.  But running with the Honeycomb, and as tested by Austin Meyers at Xplane, the Honeycomb Yoke Pots are not noisy at all!  In fact, I just did several circuits in a GA aircraft with the Honeycomb set to maxium sensativity and Null set to zero (well, 1, because there is no zero per se) and it was fantastic... no Pot noise induced issues what so ever.

Taken as a whole, this is an amazing product for an amazing price.

2 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Taken as a whole, this is an amazing product for an amazing price.

I agree. Still, it's there and it would be good to know why.

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by MarkDH

22 hours ago, MarkDH said:

I think this will depend on what delta value you have set in FSUIPC. You would need to set it to 1 to make a proper comparison and I'm pretty sure it defaults to 256.

I have to correct myself, I think you would only need to make sure the delta is 128 or less. The more you look, the more complicated these things become

53 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

I have to correct myself, I think you would only need to make sure the delta is 128 or less. The more you look, the more complicated these things become

My thoughts exactly.

1 hour ago, MarkDH said:

I agree. Still, it's there and it would be good to know why.

SO I took my yoke apart again, and it appears to me it's not the Pots, it's the bungy, which so long as you have something to re-clamp it (easy) it's a very easy thing to do.

But let me say that I do not believe it needs to be done, it's indicative of the bungy which other joystick developers have been using now for quite some time.

I seriously doubt Nicki will have much more to add to this, and just being honest guys, I don't believe it's an issue and we're sort of beating this horse to death.  It's simply not a $1100 Yoke, and if that's what are really looking for them I would skip the Honeycomb and go with a vastly more expensive Yoke.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

SO I took my yoke apart again, and it appears to me it's not the Pots, it's the bungy, which so long as you have something to re-clamp it (easy) it's a very easy thing to do.

Thanks Dave.

I don't know how the bungy system in the Honeycomb works, but my sense is anytime you have a single spring or bungy passing through zero tension when going from tension in one direction to tession in the other direction, there is potential for a small dead zone at the zero tension point. A design that uses more than one spring or bungy on an axis so there is always tension applied might avoid this issue. Just a thought.

A number of reports were a bit critical because the tension in the roll axis is apparently so much less then in the pitch axis.  Do you know the thinking behind this design goal?

Al

Edited November 12, 20196 yr by ark

Hey guys,

Well I couldn't resist cracking open the yoke to investigate this issue as it is something that I have been dealing with as well - my yoke has a pretty large deadzone that makes fine motor controls on my A2A cessna 172 very difficult at times. After investigating the windows software side I couldn't find any issues so I took a look at the internal hardware. What I discovered was the hardware is solid in terms of the actual potentiometers and bungee system, and there is no "slop" or physical issues causing the dead zone - it is literally all software that is causing the issues. You can see in my video below the raw output from the yoke as perceived by windows and how much I can move the axis without any sort of input appearing on the windows joystick calibration: 

Looks like the only solution to this will be on the software update side from the manufacturer, OR integrating our own 10 or 12 bit controller on just the X and Y axis. Does anyone know if a 10 or 12 bit controller will show up with more resolution in windows? 

31 minutes ago, paulpenney said:

Hey guys,

Well I couldn't resist cracking open the yoke to investigate this issue as it is something that I have been dealing with as well - my yoke has a pretty large deadzone that makes fine motor controls on my A2A cessna 172 very difficult at times. After investigating the windows software side I couldn't find any issues so I took a look at the internal hardware. What I discovered was the hardware is solid in terms of the actual potentiometers and bungee system, and there is no "slop" or physical issues causing the dead zone - it is literally all software that is causing the issues. You can see in my video below the raw output from the yoke as perceived by windows and how much I can move the axis without any sort of input appearing on the windows joystick calibration: 

Looks like the only solution to this will be on the software update side from the manufacturer, OR integrating our own 10 or 12 bit controller on just the X and Y axis. Does anyone know if a 10 or 12 bit controller will show up with more resolution in windows? 

 

So I wondeted anout this myself, and since we wrote the software, I spoke to the giy who wrote the code. The Honeycomb software is just for setting up command binds and has nothing to do with reading the pots. The software for teading the pots is part of P3D or FSUIPC if one is using that.

 

I have a fix to the problem guys that I will be posting a video tutorial on tomorrow. Basically I have installed an arduino DUE as a 16 bit controller for just the X and Y axis. Works smoothly as heck now and no dead zone whatsoever. 

47 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

So I wondeted anout this myself, and since we wrote the software, I spoke to the giy who wrote the code. The Honeycomb software is just for setting up command binds and has nothing to do with reading the pots. The software for teading the pots is part of P3D or FSUIPC if one is using that.

There is a joystick controller somewhere in the box between the potentiometers and the USB cable. This could be designed to incorporate dead zones. I convinced myself that Saitek's "Pro Flight" yoke controller did this, as it appeared to have non-mechnical dead zones built in. This would be useful to make a cheap joystick centre assertively even if the mechanism was a bit sloppy. I suppose it's possible such a feature crept into the Honeycomb design when selecting components, whether intentionally or not. According to LINDA, the Honeycomb yoke controller's Vendor and Product ids are: 294B and 190. According to one source, 294B is 'Snakebyte Asia Ltd.', but that's all I can determine.

Edited November 16, 20196 yr by MarkDH

1 hour ago, MarkDH said:

Snakebyte Asia Ltd

That's Honeycomb related.  When I call their private phone number, their phone system says "Snake Byte".

 

1 hour ago, MarkDH said:

There is a joystick controller somewhere in the box between the potentiometers and the USB cable. This could be designed to incorporate dead zones. I convinced myself that Saitek's "Pro Flight" yoke controller did this, as it appeared to have non-mechnical dead zones built in.

I agree. I installed a Leo Bodnar A/D board in the Saitek yoke which solved the dead zone problem on the pitch and role axis.

I don't have the Homeycomb yoke yet but from what I understand, each of the 9 toggle switches on the left side of the yoke panel is actually a DPST (Double Pole Singe Throw) switch. That is, each switch acts like two simple SPST (Single Pole Single Throw) switches that are physically ganged together. I am a big user of FSUIPC, so would like to know what the FSUIPC Button Assignment window shows when you push one of these Honeycomb switches -- how does FSUIPC handle the fact that in effect, two switches were pushed at the same time?

Thx,

Al

The problem overall is caused by the software in the onboard joystick controller for the honeycomb. For some reason they thought it was a great idea to install a huge dead zone - which isn't necessary as the pots are clear as a bell with no noise, and overall the deadzone is massive. At least allow us to configure the deadzone? Either way the resolution is only 8-bit 127 which isn't spectacular to begin with. 

As I said I just installed an Arduino DUE in my unit and wired it up - zero deadzone exists now and the added resolution certainly makes a difference. I only have it running at a resolution of 10 bits but it is much, much better and I can finally control my 172 with light 'fingertip' pressure adjustments just as I do in real life. makes a huge difference in the circuit or a high speed cruise. 

Now this hardware is perfect for me. I'll be posting a how-to on youtube tomorrow for others that want to do the conversion. 

 

4 minutes ago, paulpenney said:

The problem overall is caused by the software in the onboard joystick controller for the honeycomb. For some reason they thought it was a great idea to install a huge dead zone - which isn't necessary as the pots are clear as a bell with no noise, and overall the deadzone is massive. At least allow us to configure the deadzone? Either way the resolution is only 8-bit 127 which isn't spectacular to begin with. 

As I said I just installed an Arduino DUE in my unit and wired it up - zero deadzone exists now and the added resolution certainly makes a difference. I only have it running at a resolution of 10 bits but it is much, much better and I can finally control my 172 with light 'fingertip' pressure adjustments just as I do in real life. makes a huge difference in the circuit or a high speed cruise. 

Now this hardware is perfect for me. I'll be posting a how-to on youtube tomorrow for others that want to do the conversion. 

 

I find it disappointing that the Honeycomb yoke appears to suffer the same internal controller A/D software issue as the Saitek and if I were to buy this 'brand new' yoke I might have to modify it with an 'extra' A/D board just like I did for the Saitek. 

Al

1 hour ago, ark said:

from what I understand, each of the 9 toggle switches on the left side of the yoke panel is actually a DPST (Double Pole Singe Throw) switch. That is, each switch acts like two simple SPST (Single Pole Single Throw) switches that are physically ganged together. I am a big user of FSUIPC, so would like to know what the FSUIPC Button Assignment window shows when you push one of these Honeycomb switches -- how does FSUIPC handle the fact that in effect, two switches were pushed at the same time?

The switches are SPDT ON-ON switches. The top left switch (labelled ALT) is wired as buttons 12 and 13. If you watch it in Windows Control Panel, button 12 is on when 13 is off, and vice versa. Hence there isn't any problem with these switches in FSUIPC.

Edited November 16, 20196 yr by MarkDH

1 hour ago, DaveCT2003 said:

That's Honeycomb related.  When I call their private phone number, their phone system says "Snake Byte".

Ah yes, it appears Honeycomb Aeronautical is a brand of Snakebyte Group. Snakebyte makes Playstation 4 gamepads, among other things.