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Honeycomb yoke dead zone concern

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4 hours ago, MarkDH said:

Actually the data isn't scaled, apparently the Honeycomb pots only deliver 8-bit data. According to Nicki Repenning the yoke can resolve down to 1.7-degree movements (presumably he was talking about roll). Given the yoke's pitch travel (83mm), resolution will be somewhere around 0.5mm in pitch.

Where did the 1.7deg figure come from? 180degs of yoke roll travel divided by 28 = 0.7degs.

Al

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6 minutes ago, ark said:

Where did the 1.7deg figure come from? 180degs of yoke roll travel divided by 28 = 0.7degs.

Like I said, it came out of Nicki Repenning's mouth. Perhaps he meant 0.7.


MarkH

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On 11/8/2019 at 3:42 PM, MarkDH said:

Like I said, it came out of Nicki Repenning's mouth. Perhaps he meant 0.7.

I see. I think he meant 0.7 degs.  And in pitch, 83mm/28 would provide a resolution of about 0.32mm, which, since I'm more used to thinking in inches, is a resolution of about .0127".

Al

 

Edited by ark

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2 hours ago, ark said:

I see. I think he meant 0.7 degs.  And in pitch, 83mm/28 would provide a resolution of about 0.32mm, which, since I'm more used to thinking in inches, is a resolution of about .0127".

I'm not sure we're in step with the word "about" :mellow:


MarkH

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7 hours ago, MarkDH said:

I'm not sure we're in step with the word "about" :mellow:

I just rounded the values. 83mm/28=0.32421875mm or about 0.32mm.  It's the engineer in me I guess.  😉

Al

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On 11/8/2019 at 10:58 AM, ark said:

Hi Dave -- is there any update on this dead zone issue?

Thx,

Al

 

Hello Al,

 

Sorry, my wife is having some medical issues and most of my time has been spent researching it and running her around for various tests and all that.  The only thing I've had time for recently has been my work at Aerosoft, and I'm even falling behind on that.

I did check, and I am in fact seeing a very small dead zone, but in the sim itself I don't notice it at all.  I've had three different Yokes and countless joysticks over the years, and for me the Honeycomb Yoke is by far the most accurate I've used - small dead zone not withstanding.

I'll be talking with Honeycomb next week about some things and I'll speak with them about the info in this thread.

Sorry again about my delayed response my friend.

 

EDIT:  I only fly airliners these days, and they all have a delay for flight controls so maybe that's why I'm not noticing it in the sim.  When I get some time I'll make some short GA flights and see if I notice it then.

 

 

Edited by DaveCT2003

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37 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Sorry again about my delayed response my friend.

Hi Dave,

Certainly not a problem -- family always first!

Al

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8 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I did check, and I am in fact seeing a very small dead zone, but in the sim itself I don't notice it at all.  I've had three different Yokes and countless joysticks over the years, and for me the Honeycomb Yoke is by far the most accurate I've used - small dead zone not withstanding.

I'll be talking with Honeycomb next week about some things and I'll speak with them about the info in this thread.

Hi Dave

After you have contacted Honeycomb, I would really appreciate some feedback re the small dead zone. I was about to purchase this yoke when I saw the dead zone issues on some Youtube reviews. I am sick of the dead zone on my Saitek, however I do not want to go from the frying pan into the fire (probably an exaggeration). I would be most interested in what they have to say.

Thanks.

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https://www.freewarefiles.com/Joystick-Tester_program_33788.htmlHey guys,

While I haven't spoken with Honeycomb yet, I have spent some additional time analyzing the dead zones.  I will however speak with Honeycomb next week, but I think I have the answer for you guys already.

First, there is some freeware that will provide you with a better analysis than FSUIPC will.  In fact, I see the Yoke moving far sooner with the Yoke Test software than I see with FSUIPC (I ran them both at the same time).  This tells us something very important, it's not just the output of the POTs, it's how whatever software you're using reads the POT output.

So yes, I still see a little dead zone, but I honestly see and have no issue whatsoever.  Moreover, and as stated by our friend Austin Meyers in his review, the POTs in the Honeycomb Yoke do not register any noise while the others he reviewed did.  As you may know, noisy POTs, not dead zones, have been the bane of flight sim yokes since the very beginning!

Regarding Austin's Review of the Honeycomb and three other Yokes, there was one small error but Austin himself said they didn't measure it.... the Pitch Travel of the Honeycomb Yoke is not 5 inches, it's actually 5.5 (5 1/2) inches, and he was correct that the longer than Pitch travel directly corresponds to accuracy in/for the aircraft in that axis.

Something else that is even more important for flight simmers is the Return to Zero (RTZ) in the Honeycomb Yoke, and even after using the Yoke for hours almost daily since June the RTZ in my Yoke is still 100% accurate - always returning to exactly zero both in the Joystick Tester software and in FSUIPC.

Again, I don't see an issue with the dead zone, even with GA flying.

I made a video showing both Joystick Tester 3.2 and FSUIPC so you guys can see what I'm talking about.   You can download the short video from my Dropbox HERE.

Finally, let's remember that the product has an almost unheard of 5 year warranty!

 

I hope this has been helpful, and thank you guys very much for your time.

 

Best wishes!

 

Edited by DaveCT2003

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23 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Regarding Austin's Review of the Honeycomb and three other Yokes, there was one small error but Austin himself said they didn't measure it.... the Pitch Travel of the Honeycomb Yoke is not 5 inches, it's actually 5.5 (5 1/2) inches, and he was correct that the longer than Pitch travel directly corresponds to accuracy in/for the aircraft in that axis.

Dave,

Thanks for looking into this in detail.

Since the pitch axis travel is 5.5 inches (139.7mm) and not 83mm as reported elsewhere, that makes the resolution 5.5/28 = 0.021inches or 139.7mm/28 =  0.546mm.

Al

Edit: Turns out the pitch axis is 83mm after all, so the resolution is  0.32mm or about .0127" as shown above.

Edited by ark

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2 minutes ago, ark said:

Dave,

Thanks for looking into this in detail.

Since the pitch axis travel is 5.5 inches (139.7mm) and not 83mm as reported elsewhere, that makes the resolution 5.5/28 = 0.021inches or 139.7mm/28 =  0.546mm.

Al

 

Sounds right my friend.

The 5.5 inches was my own personal measurement in the report I did on the Honeycomb Yoke earlier this year. It would be a good quality control check to know if you guys have the same measurement.  Metric measurements are of course just a bit more accurate (us Americans love say "ah, that's close enough" in our measurements), LOL!

 

I am just loving this darned Yoke!

 

 


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1 hour ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Sounds right my friend.

The 5.5 inches was my own personal measurement in the report I did on the Honeycomb Yoke earlier this year. It would be a good quality control check to know if you guys have the same measurement.  Metric measurements are of course just a bit more accurate (us Americans love say "ah, that's close enough" in our measurements), LOL!

 

I am just loving this darned Yoke!

 

 

Dave,

I don't have the yoke (yet), but hopefully others will respond with their pitch travel measurement because 5.5" is a lot different than the 83mm (3.27") report. Or maybe I misinterpreted something. You do have to be a little careful when making this measurement since the total travel may be less than the length of the shaft when pulled all the way out because the shaft may not go all the way in. I noticed this is the case with the Saitek yoke.

Al

EDIT: Turns out the pitch axis travel is about 83mm after all.

Edited by ark

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16 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

The 5.5 inches was my own personal measurement in the report I did on the Honeycomb Yoke earlier this year. It would be a good quality control check to know if you guys have the same measurement.  Metric measurements are of course just a bit more accurate (us Americans love say "ah, that's close enough" in our measurements), LOL!

Perhaps you have a prototype yoke. Mine has a travel of 3 1/4". If you pull it all the way back the entire shaft is only 5 1/8" long. If you push it all the way forward it leaves just short of 2" showing when it hits the back stop.


MarkH

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Core i7-7700K / 32Gb DDR4 / Gigabyte GTX1070 / 1080p x 3 x weird / Win7 64 Pro

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40 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

Perhaps you have a prototype yoke. Mine has a travel of 3 1/4". If you pull it all the way back the entire shaft is only 5 1/8" long. If you push it all the way forward it leaves just short of 2" showing when it hits the back stop.

Yeah, you are absolutely correct about this!  What I did before was measure the yoke fully extended... darn it, I don't know what I was thinking.  So the Saitek would be 4" minus 1" as I recall, meaning that there is still a bit more travel with the Honeycomb.

Thanks for the correction!

 


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2 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I see the Yoke moving far sooner with the Yoke Test software than I see with FSUIPC

I think this will depend on what delta value you have set in FSUIPC. You would need to set it to 1 to make a proper comparison and I'm pretty sure it defaults to 256.


MarkH

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Core i7-7700K / 32Gb DDR4 / Gigabyte GTX1070 / 1080p x 3 x weird / Win7 64 Pro

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